Found handguns

PaulieB · July 19, 2009, 02:33 PM

I'm a 1st poster so please bear with me.

I'm a contractor that finally got around to opening radial arm saw chest I got from my dad years ago. Opened up what I thought was a tool box and found several small hand guns and bullets.

Since I can no longer ask my dad about them I am hoping some one could shed some light as to finding info about them.

One says "British Bulldog", OK that I can google but the others just say "defender" or "bulls eye" on the barrel.

If anyone could point me in the right direction or suggest a website for this type of small handguns it would be much appreciated.

PetahW · July 19, 2009, 03:37 PM

Besides the "Bulldog", which is slightly collectible, you have what looks like some very early and very desireable/collectible pistols.

The single-shot looks like it's a Stevens Model 41, and one of the revolvers might be an early Marlin revolver.

A LOT better pics, or a hands-on appraisal by a knowledgeable person, will give you a much better idea - but in the meanwhile, please do nothing to them except maybe apply a light coat of gun oil.

BTW - The old ammo boxes can be worth their weight in gold, so to speak - so you might want to be careful with them also.

.

Winchester_73 · July 19, 2009, 06:47 PM

Petah

Just curious. I have a chance to buy the below handguns. Do you think this single shot derringer is also a stevens model 41? I'm not hijacking the thread I'm just stunned that a similar pistol showed up at TFL. The one in my picture appears to be missing the front sight

PetahW · July 19, 2009, 07:22 PM

There's no pic posting, Winchester_73.

PaulieB · July 19, 2009, 08:15 PM

I will take better pictures tomorrow after work. I didn't think any thing of it but my neighbor came over ripped into one of the ammo boxes and shot a round.

Old Grump · July 19, 2009, 09:11 PM

I would seriously think about choking your neighbor for a few minutes unless you give him the go ahead.

Winchester_73 · July 19, 2009, 10:02 PM

I really think this might be a stevens 41 as well. Does it happen to be worth anything? The top gun is a hi standard sentinel 22 mag which I found out is relatively rare. Then theres a H and R defender 38 S&W.

jondar · July 20, 2009, 08:18 AM

The British Bulldog doesn't appear to be a Webley. If it is it will be marked P. Webley & Son or other Webley signature on top of the barrel. Or on the left side of the frame marked with the "winged bullet" of Webley and Scott. Bulldogs were made by many Belgian copiers and I believe H&R made some too. I also concur with the others that the other pistol is a Stevens Tipup.

markallen · July 20, 2009, 10:47 AM

The Defender, if you look at the grips, should say "Defender 89", and I believe it will be stamped on the top of the barrel also.
They were made by Iver Johnson, and sold in the Sears, and Roebuck catalogs.
Yours looks like it would be .32 caliber. And that means .32 Rimfire. So Black Powder ONLY !!
Appox value $35.00 maybe, because of condition.
They were aslo made in .22.

Winchester_73 · July 20, 2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

They were made by Iver Johnson, and sold in the Sears, and Roebuck catalogs.
Yours looks like it would be .32 caliber. And that means .32 Rimfire. So Black Powder ONLY !!

The defender is marked 38 S&W so its center fire. The guy told me its also marked H&R so its actually not Iver Johnson. My questions concerned the small single shot pistol, not anything with the defender. I personally think the defender is worth about $150 or so. The condition is very good to excellent so I don't know what you meant by condition?

tighty whitey · July 20, 2009, 12:46 PM

I am new to both TFL and guns so I can't add to the responses that have already been posted. But I just noticed that you have a 10 Lira note! Additionally the note is in very good condition and is a collectors item. You might get $5 for the note, maybe more.

PetahW · July 20, 2009, 12:56 PM

Winchester 73 - You have what looks like a Stevens Model 41 tip-up, with a "disappeared" front sight.

It would have been mounted to the 3 1/2" barrel - the only barrel length they were made in, AFAIK.

Prior to 1903, they were available in either (blackpowder) .22 Short, or .30 Rimfire - but only the .22 Short after that.

BTW - Your H&R Defender is a Model 925, IIRC - and the MSRP for one used to be about $90 in the late 70's.

.

Winchester_73 · July 20, 2009, 01:14 PM

So then its certainly worth $100 today

I might just shoot it if its in good working order but I think 38 S&W is hard to find.

Do you know if the front sight was dove tailed in? If so I could replace it? How much does losing the front sight hurt the value?

rickyjames · July 20, 2009, 01:37 PM

"The top gun is a hi standard sentinel 22 mag which I found out is relatively rare."

i have the same model sentinel with both the 22 and 22 mag cylinders. it is a great gun although i didn't know they were kinda rare. mine is in great shape maybe i should put it away, i think i even have the original box and paperwork

Winchester_73 · July 20, 2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

i have the same model sentinel with both the 22 and 22 mag cylinders. it is a great gun although i didn't know they were kinda rare. mine is in great shape maybe i should put it away, i think i even have the original box and paperwork

I've read a lot of posts about people looking for them and I myself have never come across one in real life or on a auction website until I found this guy that has one in my neck of the woods.

Winchester_73 · July 20, 2009, 02:14 PM

Btw, if I had one with 2 cylinders with box and papers in like new condition, I would put it away too. I would shoot it but treat it well. These sentinels are not normally found that way.

hogdogs · July 20, 2009, 05:51 PM

Saying you don't mean to hi-jack a thread and fully doing so is akin to saying "no offense but..." then saying something blatantly offensive...
It is cool you are looking to buy a similar gun but the benefactor of this fine site has no qualms if you start your own thread and let folks respond to you. Heck, I am still confused trying to figure out who is replying to the OP and who is speaking of winchester_73's question.
Brent

markallen · July 20, 2009, 05:56 PM

Winchester 73, unless this thread went over my head, the op's picture in his thread shows four handguns. The revolver in the upper right corner seems to be a Defender 89. I wasn't referring to the pistols you had in your post.

Defender 89
[IMG]

[/IMG]

mp25ds4 · July 20, 2009, 06:57 PM

i would kindly ask your neighbor to reimberse you for the ammo and the box he ripped open, i bet he will be suprised just how much they were worth

PaulieB · July 20, 2009, 08:21 PM

Thanks for the help and the replies! I tried to take a couple of better pictures as I promised. I'll try to keep them in order. Their was a post about the military script and I know this is not the right forum but I found a bunch of strange looking coins along with the ammo. I knew he got shot down in Italy (gunner on B52) during the war so maybe he picked them up then. Well thanks again.

PaulieB · July 20, 2009, 08:23 PM

Last 3.

PetahW · July 21, 2009, 09:15 AM

Paulie -

RE: The American Bulldog revolver.
In the late 1800's and early 1900's, mystery writer Arthur Conan Doyle started his series of the classic Sherlock Holmes detective novels, which popularized a British revolver, the Webley - one model of which was called the Bulldog.

At that time, British revolvers scarce and expensive in the US, some American entrepreneurs started to make an inexpensive revolver reminiscent of the British guns, and marked them similarly to yours.
Forehand & Wadsworth was one of those firms - and that is what you have, a F&H "American Bulldog"

The other side pics are great, but the best info is in clear pics of the markings.

On one of the other revolvers, I could only make out (marked on the barrel top/rib) that it was made by "(?) & Co, Chicopee Falls, Mass, Pat'd Pending 1864" - which makes me think "Joshua Stevens", since most of his patents were from that year, IIRC.
Can you please tell us exactly what the wording on that revolver is ?

.

Buzzcook · July 21, 2009, 12:32 PM

Dr. Watson gun is undetermined. I tend to think he had an Adams

Winchester_73 · July 21, 2009, 07:38 PM

Nice group of guns paulie. I'm sorry I "blatantly" hijacked the thread. I was trying to get a side by side comparison with the stevens you pictured. Of course I could have started a thread but I felt it would be silly to have a thread referencing the other pic but at least hodogs would not have had to scold me. To be honest, I was kind of excited I saw a pic of a similar gun to the one I'm trying to get cause I didn't know at all what it was.

PaulieB · July 21, 2009, 07:44 PM

Thank you for your response and your time all. In regards to the print on the barrel I'll try to type it for you but these old eyes have seen better days and the print is so small, I'm tempted to use some steel wool to clean it up but another post told me not to.

J.S.EVENS &CC.CHECOPEE
HALLS,MASS.PAT.SEPT6 1864

July 19, 2009, 06:47 PM	#3
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	Petah Just curious. I have a chance to buy the below handguns. Do you think this single shot derringer is also a stevens model 41? I'm not hijacking the thread I'm just stunned that a similar pistol showed up at TFL. The one in my picture appears to be missing the front sight Last edited by Winchester_73; July 19, 2009 at 10:01 PM.

July 19, 2009, 09:11 PM	#6
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	I would seriously think about choking your neighbor for a few minutes unless you give him the go ahead. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

July 19, 2009, 10:02 PM	#7
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	Here they are I really think this might be a stevens 41 as well. Does it happen to be worth anything? The top gun is a hi standard sentinel 22 mag which I found out is relatively rare. Then theres a H and R defender 38 S&W.

July 20, 2009, 10:47 AM	#9
markallen Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: N E Ohio Posts: 221	The Defender, if you look at the grips, should say "Defender 89", and I believe it will be stamped on the top of the barrel also. They were made by Iver Johnson, and sold in the Sears, and Roebuck catalogs. Yours looks like it would be .32 caliber. And that means .32 Rimfire. So Black Powder ONLY !! Appox value $35.00 maybe, because of condition. They were aslo made in .22. __________________ Don't do anything Stupid. And don't let Stupid do anything to you.

July 20, 2009, 12:46 PM	#11
tighty whitey Member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Location: Florida, near the mouse Posts: 76	Great Box of Goodies! I am new to both TFL and guns so I can't add to the responses that have already been posted. But I just noticed that you have a 10 Lira note! Additionally the note is in very good condition and is a collectors item. You might get $5 for the note, maybe more.

July 19, 2009, 03:37 PM	#2
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Besides the "Bulldog", which is slightly collectible, you have what looks like some very early and very desireable/collectible pistols. The single-shot looks like it's a Stevens Model 41, and one of the revolvers might be an early Marlin revolver. A LOT better pics, or a hands-on appraisal by a knowledgeable person, will give you a much better idea - but in the meanwhile, please do nothing to them except maybe apply a light coat of gun oil. BTW - The old ammo boxes can be worth their weight in gold, so to speak - so you might want to be careful with them also. .

July 19, 2009, 07:22 PM	#4
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	There's no pic posting, Winchester_73.

July 19, 2009, 08:15 PM	#5
PaulieB Junior Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 7	I will take better pictures tomorrow after work. I didn't think any thing of it but my neighbor came over ripped into one of the ammo boxes and shot a round.

July 20, 2009, 08:18 AM	#8
jondar Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Posts: 126	The British Bulldog doesn't appear to be a Webley. If it is it will be marked P. Webley & Son or other Webley signature on top of the barrel. Or on the left side of the frame marked with the "winged bullet" of Webley and Scott. Bulldogs were made by many Belgian copiers and I believe H&R made some too. I also concur with the others that the other pistol is a Stevens Tipup.

July 20, 2009, 12:56 PM	#12
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Winchester 73 - You have what looks like a Stevens Model 41 tip-up, with a "disappeared" front sight. It would have been mounted to the 3 1/2" barrel - the only barrel length they were made in, AFAIK. Prior to 1903, they were available in either (blackpowder) .22 Short, or .30 Rimfire - but only the .22 Short after that. BTW - Your H&R Defender is a Model 925, IIRC - and the MSRP for one used to be about $90 in the late 70's. . Last edited by PetahW; July 20, 2009 at 01:07 PM.

July 20, 2009, 01:14 PM	#13
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	So then its certainly worth $100 today I might just shoot it if its in good working order but I think 38 S&W is hard to find. Do you know if the front sight was dove tailed in? If so I could replace it? How much does losing the front sight hurt the value? __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

July 20, 2009, 01:37 PM	#14
rickyjames Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 558	"The top gun is a hi standard sentinel 22 mag which I found out is relatively rare." i have the same model sentinel with both the 22 and 22 mag cylinders. it is a great gun although i didn't know they were kinda rare. mine is in great shape maybe i should put it away, i think i even have the original box and paperwork

July 20, 2009, 02:14 PM	#16
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	Btw, if I had one with 2 cylinders with box and papers in like new condition, I would put it away too. I would shoot it but treat it well. These sentinels are not normally found that way. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

July 20, 2009, 05:51 PM	#17
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Saying you don't mean to hi-jack a thread and fully doing so is akin to saying "no offense but..." then saying something blatantly offensive... It is cool you are looking to buy a similar gun but the benefactor of this fine site has no qualms if you start your own thread and let folks respond to you. Heck, I am still confused trying to figure out who is replying to the OP and who is speaking of winchester_73's question. Brent

July 20, 2009, 05:56 PM	#18
markallen Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: N E Ohio Posts: 221	Winchester 73, unless this thread went over my head, the op's picture in his thread shows four handguns. The revolver in the upper right corner seems to be a Defender 89. I wasn't referring to the pistols you had in your post. Defender 89 [IMG][/IMG] __________________ Don't do anything Stupid. And don't let Stupid do anything to you.

July 20, 2009, 06:57 PM	#19
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	i would kindly ask your neighbor to reimberse you for the ammo and the box he ripped open, i bet he will be suprised just how much they were worth __________________ Liberal Newscaster Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked: 'What do you feel.....when you shoot a Terrorist?' The Marine shrugged and replied, "A Slight Recoil."

July 21, 2009, 09:15 AM	#22
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Paulie - RE: The American Bulldog revolver. In the late 1800's and early 1900's, mystery writer Arthur Conan Doyle started his series of the classic Sherlock Holmes detective novels, which popularized a British revolver, the Webley - one model of which was called the Bulldog. At that time, British revolvers scarce and expensive in the US, some American entrepreneurs started to make an inexpensive revolver reminiscent of the British guns, and marked them similarly to yours. Forehand & Wadsworth was one of those firms - and that is what you have, a F&H "American Bulldog" The other side pics are great, but the best info is in clear pics of the markings. On one of the other revolvers, I could only make out (marked on the barrel top/rib) that it was made by "(?) & Co, Chicopee Falls, Mass, Pat'd Pending 1864" - which makes me think "Joshua Stevens", since most of his patents were from that year, IIRC. Can you please tell us exactly what the wording on that revolver is ? .

July 21, 2009, 12:32 PM	#23
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Dr. Watson gun is undetermined. I tend to think he had an Adams

July 21, 2009, 07:38 PM	#24
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	Nice group of guns paulie. I'm sorry I "blatantly" hijacked the thread. I was trying to get a side by side comparison with the stevens you pictured. Of course I could have started a thread but I felt it would be silly to have a thread referencing the other pic but at least hodogs would not have had to scold me. To be honest, I was kind of excited I saw a pic of a similar gun to the one I'm trying to get cause I didn't know at all what it was. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

July 21, 2009, 07:44 PM	#25
PaulieB Junior Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 7	Thank you for your response and your time all. In regards to the print on the barrel I'll try to type it for you but these old eyes have seen better days and the print is so small, I'm tempted to use some steel wool to clean it up but another post told me not to. J.S.EVENS &CC.CHECOPEE HALLS,MASS.PAT.SEPT6 1864