reduced rifle loads and jacketed bullets

quickshot · January 4, 2007, 11:42 AM

Hey all. Been gone a while and now I am back. I have been hard at work teaching a fellow co worker how to reload and gulp,, cast his own. I was showing him the lyman cast boolit hand book with all it's spiffy loads with blue dot etc.. and he asked a question that I don't have an answer for. Can those reduced loads with red/blue dot etc.. be used with jacketed bullets safely or is it totaly a bad idea all together? Primary calibers of intrest are .223 and .308. Please educate me!!

Quickshot

Scott · January 4, 2007, 01:17 PM

When I made up 30-06 gallery loads for the first time, I was told to steer clear of pistol powders. I don't know if this helps, but I found IMR4227 (20.0 grns.) to be excellent as an accurate reduced load w/ a 150 grn. jacketed bullet.
Grouped about 1- 1 1/2 inches at 100yds.

firechicken · January 4, 2007, 01:37 PM

I tried some reduced 223 loads for my AR15. If I remember correctly, it was 9.0gr Unique under a 55gr PSP at about 2200fps. It was accurate (1" @ 50yds, open sights), but would not cycle the action. I may have to try that load again since I now have a bolt action 223. As far as I know, the only safety concern is loading too light and sticking a bullet in the barrel. It's common to load both 223 and 308 light (sub-sonic) for use with suppressors.

castnblast · January 4, 2007, 03:57 PM

The only other concern I heard was the brass not expanding enough in the chamber and gases coming back at you. Can anyone speak to this? That is the only reason I have not tinkered with it yet.

Gbro · January 4, 2007, 07:18 PM

There is some talk about detonation loads using small charges of fast burning powders.
But then there is the very dangrous potential of double charging the cartridge.
This happens way to often. One of the oldtimmers at our club used(past tence) pistol powders for cost savings, He blew up an '03-A3. I got to the range just after he was taken to the ER (to remove the steel from his eye/face) i pulled 2 loads and scaled them and, he had double charged a whole row in the loading block.
Some reloaders that use fast powders seat the bullet imediatly after charging.
Time, the rule is, If it can happen..............With time it will........

Gbro

Gbro · January 4, 2007, 07:28 PM

When reducing loads, for reduced recoil the bullet may need to be evaluated if the load is to be used for hunting.
For example a 180 grain grand slam is designed for a high power cartridge. if you reduce the load you maybe should look at a bullet designed for say a 30-30win as the bullet needs to exspand to do what it was designed to do.
My $.021/2
Gbro

CERBERUS · January 4, 2007, 10:15 PM

This is a good read for people interested in trying out subsonic loads.

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.htm

Subsonic loads requre flash hole modification and magnum primers, also a powder that is "fluffy" for large volume cases. The hew IMR Trailboss has been used alot for subsonic rifle loads, as well as the dot powders.

singleshot · January 5, 2007, 10:15 AM

Trail Boss is wonderful for cast bullet loads in many rifle cartridges. IMR has some data

OlderFox · January 6, 2007, 04:38 PM

I've been loading reduced loads for a few years now. The calibres I load reduced for are the .233Rem and 22-250. After some reading and such, I decided on Blue Dot and it works well for me.
[B]USE THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK[B]
I normally start at 40% of the normal load I use for the calibre and particular bullet. Then work both down and up from there.

cloudcroft · January 7, 2007, 12:15 AM

quickshot,

Yes, jacketed or cast lead, it doesn't matter.

The lead bullets may be about 100 fps faster, that's the only difference.

-- John D.

sindiesel666 · January 7, 2007, 09:38 AM

I've used 12-13 grains of Unique, 150gr FMJBT, in 7.5 Swiss (roughly same as the 308 Win). Got 1" 6-shot groups at 50 yards with a 4X weaver scope. Recoil like a .22lr.

I've gone as low as 8 grains and 115 grain lead bullets in 303 Brit with decent results.

January 4, 2007, 11:42 AM	#1
quickshot Member Join Date: December 6, 2005 Posts: 46	reduced rifle loads and jacketed bullets Hey all. Been gone a while and now I am back. I have been hard at work teaching a fellow co worker how to reload and gulp,, cast his own. I was showing him the lyman cast boolit hand book with all it's spiffy loads with blue dot etc.. and he asked a question that I don't have an answer for. Can those reduced loads with red/blue dot etc.. be used with jacketed bullets safely or is it totaly a bad idea all together? Primary calibers of intrest are .223 and .308. Please educate me!! Quickshot

January 4, 2007, 01:17 PM	#2
Scott Member Join Date: March 24, 1999 Location: SE Mao-ssachusetts Posts: 38	When I made up 30-06 gallery loads for the first time, I was told to steer clear of pistol powders. I don't know if this helps, but I found IMR4227 (20.0 grns.) to be excellent as an accurate reduced load w/ a 150 grn. jacketed bullet. Grouped about 1- 1 1/2 inches at 100yds. __________________ "Truth, by manner of Force, may be crushed to the earth, but crushed or not, Truth is still Truth.

January 4, 2007, 03:57 PM	#4
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	The only other concern I heard was the brass not expanding enough in the chamber and gases coming back at you. Can anyone speak to this? That is the only reason I have not tinkered with it yet. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

January 6, 2007, 04:38 PM	#9
OlderFox Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: W. Canada Posts: 22	I've been loading reduced loads for a few years now. The calibres I load reduced for are the .233Rem and 22-250. After some reading and such, I decided on Blue Dot and it works well for me. [B]USE THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK[B] I normally start at 40% of the normal load I use for the calibre and particular bullet. Then work both down and up from there. __________________ West of hell. East of the Rockies.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

January 4, 2007, 01:37 PM	#3
firechicken Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Savannah, MO Posts: 224	I tried some reduced 223 loads for my AR15. If I remember correctly, it was 9.0gr Unique under a 55gr PSP at about 2200fps. It was accurate (1" @ 50yds, open sights), but would not cycle the action. I may have to try that load again since I now have a bolt action 223. As far as I know, the only safety concern is loading too light and sticking a bullet in the barrel. It's common to load both 223 and 308 light (sub-sonic) for use with suppressors.

January 4, 2007, 07:18 PM	#5
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	There is some talk about detonation loads using small charges of fast burning powders. But then there is the very dangrous potential of double charging the cartridge. This happens way to often. One of the oldtimmers at our club used(past tence) pistol powders for cost savings, He blew up an '03-A3. I got to the range just after he was taken to the ER (to remove the steel from his eye/face) i pulled 2 loads and scaled them and, he had double charged a whole row in the loading block. Some reloaders that use fast powders seat the bullet imediatly after charging. Time, the rule is, If it can happen..............With time it will........ Gbro

January 4, 2007, 07:28 PM	#6
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	When reducing loads, for reduced recoil the bullet may need to be evaluated if the load is to be used for hunting. For example a 180 grain grand slam is designed for a high power cartridge. if you reduce the load you maybe should look at a bullet designed for say a 30-30win as the bullet needs to exspand to do what it was designed to do. My $.021/2 Gbro

January 4, 2007, 10:15 PM	#7
CERBERUS Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Posts: 50	This is a good read for people interested in trying out subsonic loads. http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.htm Subsonic loads requre flash hole modification and magnum primers, also a powder that is "fluffy" for large volume cases. The hew IMR Trailboss has been used alot for subsonic rifle loads, as well as the dot powders.

January 5, 2007, 10:15 AM	#8
singleshot Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 1999 Posts: 162	Trail Boss is wonderful for cast bullet loads in many rifle cartridges. IMR has some data

January 7, 2007, 12:15 AM	#10
cloudcroft Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 565	quickshot, Yes, jacketed or cast lead, it doesn't matter. The lead bullets may be about 100 fps faster, that's the only difference. -- John D.

January 7, 2007, 09:38 AM	#11
sindiesel666 Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: San Antonio Posts: 270	I've used 12-13 grains of Unique, 150gr FMJBT, in 7.5 Swiss (roughly same as the 308 Win). Got 1" 6-shot groups at 50 yards with a 4X weaver scope. Recoil like a .22lr. I've gone as low as 8 grains and 115 grain lead bullets in 303 Brit with decent results.