Protesters turn violent. What do you do?

[briandg]

My suggestion would be to pop the trailer open, charge $100 cover charge, let in anyone who can get there, and jam that door shut.

Probably need to keep a recliner, a case of cold beer, and a DVD player and television in there from now on.

Oh, don't forget that gigantic label for the outisde of the door that says
TOXIC WASTE!
BIOHAZARD!
RADIATION HAZARD!
lIVE KILLER BEE HIVES INSIDE!
LEPERS!

have I forgotten anything?

[Lohman446]

LOL - pickup truck. I'm still going to attempt to run or crash through the median to escape though

[briandg]

Ahh, I get it. i once drove a pickup for nearly twenty years before I sold it last year. Good old truck, I feel like a traitor. Now, I drive a civic. That thing can barlely make it over a rough road, I'm never going to drive it in snow. Run it into a median? Might as well run it into a bank building. The air dam up front isn't even 7 inches tall.

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by armedleo

Abandoning your car to flee on foot? I strongly urge against it. And I would refer you to the Reginald Denny beating captured on video as he was pulled from his tractor-trailer as he had the misfortune of being caught at an intersection taken over by rioting thugs.

Add to that the possibility you're with family in the car?

The car offers more protection than your shirt and pants; the car offers more speed with which to flee than your wingtips or loafers. You carry a gun for a reason. And its lawful deployment is based upon you're own ability to articulate your fear for your life or imminent bodily harm or in the defense of the life of another.

This decision should obviously be based on your ability to flee as well as the ability of other occupant to flee. I have small children (3&6) so fleeing presents a challenge. The elderly or handicap should also weigh the risks of fleeing. However, once you get mobbed, you are at the mercy of the mob. I don't know how many rounds you all carry on a regular basis, but I carry a subcompact plus 2 extra mags. With one in the pipe, that only gives me 21. Once you start shooting, you don't know who will be shooting back. Your ability to hit targets accurately will be limited by having to shoot through glass and your ability to shoot all the way around you will be limited by the seats. Meanwhile, your position in the car makes you an easy target.

You say the car offers more speed, but if you are boxed in, your car is not going anywhere. In a video of the NC riot, they stopped a highway that was moving at full speed. I'm not sure how many law abiding citizens are willing to ram a person. The protesters could have easily been killed if the drivers were not able to stop in time. If I was a little further back and had time to start retreating, I think it could be the best case scenario. That is obviously just my opinion.

[briandg]

yes, you are at the mercy of a mob. You had better hope for mercy. Myself, I am torn. Crippled or carrying children? Do you risk escape, or do you hope that the mob won't tear apart your car because you look old, or have children with you?

It seems to be taken as a fact that the mob will lower itself to the most basic bestial level. I understand. There is a solid chance that there will be enough humanity in a number of those people that they would actually escort a child or paraplegic out of the danger zone, rather than drag them out and beat them.

This isn't going to be like the martians have attacked with extermination on the mind. Even in the middle east there aren't massive casualties during riots. You only see massive casualties in areas like the congo, where the goal is genocide, not tearing down the mud huts and stealing the goats.

[armedleo]

Assuming you're correct and these encounters will be comprised of 'civilized' and 'sympathetic' rioters, I can assure you that all you need is to fire one round. That's called a show-stopper. After that they'll not likely be so inclined to mob you or stick around your car. Remember, they'll always go for softest target around. I can assure that will not be me.

[briandg]

I never, never said that this was going to be true.

comprised of 'civilized' and 'sympathetic' rioters,

That's utter nonsense. No matter who is there, if it's a riot, there are bad people. If there's a riot, it's not going to be giant mass of monsters who want to kill everyone in sight, either.

Sure, firing a round may solve things. Go on and keep believing that everything is simple and can be solved as easily as that.

[Lohman446]

Maybe the armored Suburban idea is looking better

[briandg]

We could also argue in favor of a motorcycle. But that brings up the point of how many people die every year in cycle accidents, and whether a risk assessment would really support driving a motorcycle on the freeway vs the threat of getting caught and killed in a freeway riot?

Most of the guys I know who ride would use that as an excuse to leave the car at home and ride to work...

[armedleo]

No, no. Far better to overthink things and make them more complicated then they are. Remember the basic training tenet: the KISS principle.

[stephen426]

No need to get snippy guys...

Let's assume that things descend into chaos fairly rapidly. Would you risk surface streets to avoid the highways, or would you feel safer on highways?

The project I am working on in Charlotte is delayed so hopefully things die down by the time I need to go. I don't know surface streets well and the distance from the airport is pretty far. I use my Google Maps on my phone, but it won't tell me where the mobs are gathering. Even if there were pockets, I would not know what areas I would have to traverse.

[armedleo]

Your question is a good one. I think this is much dependent upon the time of day or night. If traffic is moving along at a good clip on the expressway I'd venture to say it'd probably not be a good idea for rioters to wander out into moving lanes of traffic with cars going along at 50+ MPH.

It seems that with no work and no school - nights and weekends - that's when trouble is most likely to reach the boiling point. Nighttime especially is the time most desired for those with malice in their hearts.

Also, according to the FBI Director, his agency is predicting (expecting?) more and more terrorist acts of the lone wolf sort. Look at the chaos caused by a single gunman in Dallas.

[K_Mac]

That is a very good question. I think staying on the interstate is almost always the best answer. Getting into the neighborhoods of any urban area is going to be a risky move, unless you know the landscape and have options.

Yes, stopping traffic on an Interstate is not easy to do and takes a fairly large committed group. I live in the greater St Louis area, and during the Ferguson unrest it happened a couple of times. The problem is once traffic is stopped things will deteriorate quickly and reinforcements are limited in there ability to quickly intervene. Being aware of the threatened shutdown and avoiding that route if possible, and seeing and evaluating the situation from a distance is the best you can hope for.

[briandg]

one of the great challenges of truth and civil responsibility is universality. what would happen if everyone did it? half the town? twice as many as expected?

chaos.

don't count on escaping trouble by dodging around in side streets that are already probably at full capacity.

with maybe a 100% increase in traffic, the best case scenario is a lot of people late for work and a spike in traffic problems. worst case is that all hell breaks loose on another street because of an unrelated incident.

[BarryLee]

I’m by no means advocating running people down, however I do wonder if we shouldn’t try very hard not to stop. I doubt many of these protestors want to “die for the cause” so they very slowly and gradually push onto the interstate and stop traffic. If people simply blow their horns and continue at a safe speed I doubt anyone is going to jump in front of a car going sixty miles per hour. However, once one car stops that’s it and they have control of the freeway.

[briandg]

yes, but again, once one single person stops, everyone on the highway is SOL, as sooner or later that blockage will just keep growing.

If a crowd wants to swarm a highway, all it really takes is just one driver to do it. One lane comes to a standstill, the adjacent lanes are slowed by various means, people push past the first lane into the next, and in a matter of minutes, the highway is closed.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but if i'm running down a highway and there's a solid stoppage on either side and I don't know why, it's just an automatic response to slow down in anticipation of whatever stopped that lane. Then, all it takes is some bonehead jumping out in front of my slowed vehicle and another lane is closed.

[briandg]

btw, just a point to make, when those guys go from protest to riot mode, expect rocks and other projectiles to fly. With a couple of big rocks, a couple broken windshields, you have set the collapse of traffic flow in motion. It's inevitable that at least one person is going to slow or stop out of fear, or for another reason.

[stephen426]

In this case, the guy had a chance to break through without causing serious harm. This video was of I-70 after the shooting of Michael Brown.

The BLM protest in Oakland, CA that shut down I-880 happened very quickly and after the first few cars tried to evade or stopped, everyone behind them was blocked in.
This was the video I was thinking of when I said that road blocks can happen very quickly

I could not fine a good video of when the "protesters" blocked the highway after the shooting of Keith Lamont Scott, but here is the news footage.

"Run them down" is not very well received: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...ters-charlotte

[Lohman446]

This is becoming more interesting to me as I consider what I carry in my truck and how quickly I could exit with it vs leave it behind. If I am alone (often the case in my truck) a pack suited to running (vs survival vaguely in place) would be well suited. A bottle of water would be appreciated in it as well

[briandg]

Lohmann, what you are wanting is called a "get home bag" and is similar in nature to he " bug out bag." You just keep a duffel in the car, it's different by seasons, changes by situation, but it's one simple thing. A bag full of things that you must have if you are suddenly on foot somewhere. Stuck in snow, trapped on the interstate, broken down at a camp site, whatever.

Partial list? Walking shoes and a set of dry clothes. A quart of fluid. Poncho. A big roll of gauze, in case of injury. A day worth of any medication. Complete, clear list of identification on laminated sheet.

The get home bag for winter supposes that you'd be shut down a few miles from home and have little choice but walk it. Same thing any time of year, anyone can go off track and be caught miles from rescue.

Look at this Facebook page. This woman is amazing.

https://m.facebook.com/SurvivalBetty...notify_me_page

[Lohman446]

My bug out bags are designed to be able to live without civilization for a week. Not to move quickly over a short time to evade. Basically they have too much in them. I think I need to be considering something much lighter like a distance running pack for this type of situation. Not "end of the world" but "need to create distance quickly"

[briandg]

Right. There's no rule against having a bag for every purpose.

I have a winter satchel and carry boots in it. We have a storm cellar crate, and bags.

No bug out bag. Nowhere to go.we have to bunker

[briandg]

S 426, the guy on I 70 took a huge risk. I don't know why he thought that it was smart, or what I would have

The one in Oakland was a classic example. Stand by the side and interfere with traffic until a lane stops. It's over. All you have to do is creep over to the other lanes as the obstacles slow down, then shut down each lane, step by step.

What was that, ten lanes that they shut down in just a few minutes? That traffic would have been a solid mass a mile long in a matter of minutes, right? I would have gotten out of my car and backed off. The crowd didn't look violent. The situation seemed safe at the moment. Without an urgent need to run, I would have backed up 100 yards or so, waited until traffic had started moving, and do whatever I needed to do.

The way I feel about traffic anyway, seriously, I am going to have nightmares about that.

[stephen426]

This thread is actually taking a great turn. Winter is approaching (well, not for me in sunny Florida ) and having an emergency bag in the car is a great idea. A emergency space blanket (heat reflective), water, battery charger, gloves, medicines, energy bars, flashlights, batteries, etc. is probably a good start. While we tend to be tactically minded on this thread, other forms of prep are also important.

[armedleo]

Now you guys have me giving strong consideration to carrying either an AR 15 (5.56) or a semi auto 12 g shotgun in addition to my sidearm. This is not to derail the thread but keeping in the spirit of our discussion.

So, what do you guys go for, rifle or shotgun? Thoughts?