thinking about applying for a C&R license.

Ruthless4christ · November 2, 2013, 02:03 PM

Hello folks,

I have been thinking of applying for my Curio & Relics FFL and from what I see on the ATF website it seems pretty easy. My question is, when you apply, does the ATF or anyone else have to come into your house and inspect it prior to approval?

thanks

Cheapshooter · November 2, 2013, 02:25 PM

No. Not for a Class 03 Collector of Curio and Relic Firearms FFL. Commonly known as a C&R. Also, don't be confused about the question about having sent a copy to your local chief law enforcement officer. It means that, just that you sent them a copy. Not hand delivered, not registered mail, no need to wait for a reply from them (you will probably never get one). All it asks is if you sent one, nothing more. U.S Mail is just fine. Put a copy of your completed form in an envelope addressed to the police chief, or sheriff that has jurisdiction in your area, put a stamp on it, and drop it in the mailbox. Your obligation is done.
Now, your local STATE regulations may be different, but as far as the BATF is concerned it is a very easy process.

Ruthless4christ · November 2, 2013, 02:31 PM

After I get it though they have to inspect all of my guns every year though right?

Ruthless4christ · November 2, 2013, 02:34 PM

I'm just not a huge fan of people from the Gubmint snooping through my stuff.

firewrench044 · November 2, 2013, 04:08 PM

An inspection from ATF is very rare

I know 20 to 30 people with a C&R and have herd of only one
inspection
My brother inlaw, inspected one time
has had his C&R for 8 years
inspected first year because he had a pistol stolen in the past, and it was used in a crime
he was the original purchaser so when they checked on the history of that pistol
his name was " RED FLAGED " but still got his C&R
BATF made an appointment with him
the BATF guy was very friendly, looked at his acquisition and disposition
book, looked at his C&R guns only
inspection lasted 1 hr.

Cheapshooter · November 2, 2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

I'm just not a huge fan of people from the Gubmint snooping through my stuff.

No. They can do an audit of your bound book, and firearms, but it is very rare unless they have reason to suspect something.
I don't know of anybody personally having it done in the past 10 years or more that I have had my C&R FFL. I have read on some C&R forums of a very few cases. Some have even said they just called them, and set up a date at the license holder's convenience to bring their bound book in for them to look at.

Don't know what the future might bring with the current political state of things, but nothing to worry about now. Just stay within the law, and everything is fine. Kind of a good idea anyhow, isn't it?

Ruthless4christ · November 2, 2013, 06:53 PM

Thanks for the info folks.

Cheapshooter · November 2, 2013, 07:13 PM

Here is a good forum for all sorts of C&R info to help you out.
http://milsurpshooter.net/

This site is dedicated to C&R, and also has a lot of information. However I have not visited this one much.
http://www.cruffler.com/

Ruthless4christ · November 2, 2013, 07:26 PM

Thank you Cheapshooter. :-)

Gaucho Gringo · November 3, 2013, 06:37 PM

I got mine a year ago. If you buy a new gun or a used gun through a dealer you have to fill out paperwork that is kept on file at the seller's place of business. When you buy a C&R eligible firearm you do the paperwork, doesn't cost you transfer fees and shipping is generally cheaper. Of course if you buy FTF with private parties where legal, buy a non C&R eligible firearm or if state or local regulations prohibit it for some reason then it is a different story. The $35.00 I paid for it has saved me over $150.00 in fees and you can get dealer prices at places like Brownell's. Saved over $2.00 a can on Ballistol for example, it all adds up.

Cheapshooter · November 3, 2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

When you buy a C&R eligible firearm you do the paperwork,

?

What paperwork? No 4473 like you fill out at a FFL dealer for non C&R. Just enter the gun as an acquisition in your bound book.

leadcounsel · November 3, 2013, 10:22 PM

Don't bother.

Yep. Don't bother.

I've had a C&R for about 8 years. Times were good. C&R guns were plentiful and affordably priced. $50 Mosins, $100 K31s, $100 Mausers, $100 Tokarevs and CZ pistols. $150 SKS rifles.

Tons of affordable easy to find ammo (seriously .01-.05 - .10 cents per round for the same rifles.

It was really cool to get a rifle delivered to your front door. But, most of the times I was at work and had to schedule a pick up at the shipping company during THEIR business hours, and often that was a crazy hassle and stressful getting their, etc. It really got to be a PITA a few times, and I've even missed the pick up window, and lost money when the guns were returned to the company.... that was annoying....

So unless you have someone home to accept delivery, it's sometimes a real hassle.

Now, the good stuff at cheap prices is largely dried up. And the ammo is largely dried up. And import restrictions seem to get tighter each year. There might be some other C&R eligible guns out there, some hidden warehouse somewhere, but with each passing year that becomes less likely.

Yeah, I hear the argument that it's only $10 per year, but there are responsibilities too. It actually is more of a headache than people make it out to be. And, you are beholden to the ATF, which is no small matter.

And people will say you can get discounts at places... but that is coming to an end too. For instance, Midway stopped their dealer program, and many others don't offer or have stopped theirs.

The savings just aren't there anymore, given the small margin between quality C&R and brand new used guns, the hassles, etc.

I'm glad I got it when I did, but frankly that ship has sailed. I would not start up one today. I will likely let mine expire the next go-around unless huge finds of surplus guns are imported.

Frankly, I would save the effort and hassle, and just shop locally for Face To Face deals on Armslist and other sights.

Ruthless4christ · November 3, 2013, 10:26 PM

Since I am in NY face to face transactions are no longer an option, and I do always have someone at home to pick up the goods. At this point the mandatory NICS check and transfer fee for old military surplus rifles is actually quite a hassle, so i really think I am going to do it.

Cheapshooter · November 3, 2013, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Since I am in NY

Sorry to hear that.

You should check on any state laws that may make a C&R license useless. I think I've heard of several Eastern states and cities that don't recognise them for much. Forcing C&R FFL holders to still jump through a bunch of hoops just to buy an old military bolt action relic from 50 years ago.

Ruthless4christ · November 3, 2013, 10:44 PM

Thanks for the Sympathy Cheapshooter. due to family situation I cant get out just yet. Pretty much the only restriction on C&R I have been able to find is the transfer of C&R eligible pistols (no biggie for me since I mostly collect rifles).

kilimanjaro · November 6, 2013, 05:37 PM

I will agree that the glory days of cheap K31s and Russian Capture Mausers are gone, but I'm still able to find C&R deals on the internet to use the license with. It's pretty nice to have that purchase show up at the door.

Still worth getting the license, in my opinion. At renewal time, look back and decide then.

Personally, I think there needs to about 50 million more licensed collectors on the books, just to put the fear of God in our representatives.

November 2, 2013, 02:03 PM	#1
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	thinking about applying for a C&R license. Hello folks, I have been thinking of applying for my Curio & Relics FFL and from what I see on the ATF website it seems pretty easy. My question is, when you apply, does the ATF or anyone else have to come into your house and inspect it prior to approval? thanks

November 2, 2013, 02:25 PM	#2
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	No. Not for a Class 03 Collector of Curio and Relic Firearms FFL. Commonly known as a C&R. Also, don't be confused about the question about having sent a copy to your local chief law enforcement officer. It means that, just that *you sent them a copy. Not hand delivered, not registered mail, no need to wait for a reply from them (you will probably never get one). All it asks is if you sent one, nothing more. U.S Mail is just fine. Put a copy of your completed form in an envelope addressed to the police chief, or sheriff that has jurisdiction in your area, put a stamp on it, and drop it in the mailbox. Your obligation is done. Now, your local STATE* regulations may be different, but as far as the BATF is concerned it is a very easy process. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

November 2, 2013, 07:13 PM	#8
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Here is a good forum for all sorts of C&R info to help you out. http://milsurpshooter.net/ This site is dedicated to C&R, and also has a lot of information. However I have not visited this one much. http://www.cruffler.com/ __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

November 3, 2013, 06:37 PM	#10
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	I got mine a year ago. If you buy a new gun or a used gun through a dealer you have to fill out paperwork that is kept on file at the seller's place of business. When you buy a C&R eligible firearm you do the paperwork, doesn't cost you transfer fees and shipping is generally cheaper. Of course if you buy FTF with private parties where legal, buy a non C&R eligible firearm or if state or local regulations prohibit it for some reason then it is a different story. The $35.00 I paid for it has saved me over $150.00 in fees and you can get dealer prices at places like Brownell's. Saved over $2.00 a can on Ballistol for example, it all adds up. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

November 2, 2013, 02:31 PM	#3
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	After I get it though they have to inspect all of my guns every year though right?

November 2, 2013, 02:34 PM	#4
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	I'm just not a huge fan of people from the Gubmint snooping through my stuff.

November 2, 2013, 04:08 PM	#5
firewrench044 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Location: Fort Pierce, Florida Posts: 381	An inspection from ATF is very rare I know 20 to 30 people with a C&R and have herd of only one inspection My brother inlaw, inspected one time has had his C&R for 8 years inspected first year because he had a pistol stolen in the past, and it was used in a crime he was the original purchaser so when they checked on the history of that pistol his name was " RED FLAGED " but still got his C&R BATF made an appointment with him the BATF guy was very friendly, looked at his acquisition and disposition book, looked at his C&R guns only inspection lasted 1 hr.

November 2, 2013, 06:53 PM	#7
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	Thanks for the info folks.

November 2, 2013, 07:26 PM	#9
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	Thank you Cheapshooter. :-)

November 3, 2013, 10:22 PM	#12
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Don't bother. Yep. Don't bother. I've had a C&R for about 8 years. Times were good. C&R guns were plentiful and affordably priced. $50 Mosins, $100 K31s, $100 Mausers, $100 Tokarevs and CZ pistols. $150 SKS rifles. Tons of affordable easy to find ammo (seriously .01-.05 - .10 cents per round for the same rifles. It was really cool to get a rifle delivered to your front door. But, most of the times I was at work and had to schedule a pick up at the shipping company during THEIR business hours, and often that was a crazy hassle and stressful getting their, etc. It really got to be a PITA a few times, and I've even missed the pick up window, and lost money when the guns were returned to the company.... that was annoying.... So unless you have someone home to accept delivery, it's sometimes a real hassle. Now, the good stuff at cheap prices is largely dried up. And the ammo is largely dried up. And import restrictions seem to get tighter each year. There might be some other C&R eligible guns out there, some hidden warehouse somewhere, but with each passing year that becomes less likely. Yeah, I hear the argument that it's only $10 per year, but there are responsibilities too. It actually is more of a headache than people make it out to be. And, you are beholden to the ATF, which is no small matter. And people will say you can get discounts at places... but that is coming to an end too. For instance, Midway stopped their dealer program, and many others don't offer or have stopped theirs. The savings just aren't there anymore, given the small margin between quality C&R and brand new used guns, the hassles, etc. I'm glad I got it when I did, but frankly that ship has sailed. I would not start up one today. I will likely let mine expire the next go-around unless huge finds of surplus guns are imported. Frankly, I would save the effort and hassle, and just shop locally for Face To Face deals on Armslist and other sights.

November 3, 2013, 10:26 PM	#13
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	Since I am in NY face to face transactions are no longer an option, and I do always have someone at home to pick up the goods. At this point the mandatory NICS check and transfer fee for old military surplus rifles is actually quite a hassle, so i really think I am going to do it.

November 3, 2013, 10:44 PM	#15
Ruthless4christ Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Location: CNY Posts: 790	Thanks for the Sympathy Cheapshooter. due to family situation I cant get out just yet. Pretty much the only restriction on C&R I have been able to find is the transfer of C&R eligible pistols (no biggie for me since I mostly collect rifles).

November 6, 2013, 05:37 PM	#16
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I will agree that the glory days of cheap K31s and Russian Capture Mausers are gone, but I'm still able to find C&R deals on the internet to use the license with. It's pretty nice to have that purchase show up at the door. Still worth getting the license, in my opinion. At renewal time, look back and decide then. Personally, I think there needs to about 50 million more licensed collectors on the books, just to put the fear of God in our representatives.