More long range stuff........

Bob Wright · April 15, 2013, 08:51 PM

I can't document this, so you're free to say it never happened.

I remember reading of a test by the US Army using an M1911A1 .45 Automatic firing at extreme range. The pistol was held in a machine rest, and elevated incrementally until the maximun range was determined. The maximun range was something like 1,650 yards. All bullets struck within a given area. The point was that the bullet fired from a pistol was stabilized throughout it trajectory, that is, it did not tumble after losing most of its velocity.

What this proved to the US Army is not known, other than probably some Ordnance officers had a pleasant afternoon of shooting.

Bob Wright

2000ShadowACE · April 16, 2013, 08:13 AM

That sounds like a fun project. I wish I had a range that long to try it.

Bob Wright · April 16, 2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

That sounds like a fun project. I wish I had a range that long to try it.

If you had their funding, I'm sure you'd have the range.

Bob Wright

jrothWA · April 16, 2013, 10:27 AM

that in the 20's, the Ordnance Department did shooting in Florida Gulf coast for max range of the various Cal.30 ammo. So that might have been a good "what if" situation.

I have personally shot my 1911 @ 100 using the commercial 100yd small rifle target, and using the base of the front sight in the rear notch and got great groups using 230gr FMJ.

Sometimes I'll shoot just at back berm to get relation to impact and aim point.

Old Grump · April 16, 2013, 10:44 AM

5 gallon bucket filled with sand at 213 yards is fun and entertaining once you get the Kentucky elevation figured out. Wind was not a problem. 7" groups at 100 yards is possible, maybe gun can do better but I cannot.

I know of guys who shoot their 45's at 300 to 500yards but they are tricked out guns with scopes and I'm to old, to shaky and to poor to afford that kind of gun to do that kind of shooting.

rodfac · April 16, 2013, 07:33 PM

Nice shooting, Old Grump. Remind me not to insult you from any distance!!

Yep, plinking at long range is fun! We've got a cpl of the old style 20# propane tanks for that purpose, that are good targets at any range. Out at 200 they're fun with a .22 rifle...teaches you a lot about windage, and that little "bink" when you hit them is very satisfying.

I've tried walking a .45 out to that range, but didn't have much luck on the tank. With a good .44 and a 6-1/2" barrel and a rock solid back rested position, I did better, (one or two maybe per cylinder full) but nothing like what Keith claimed in Sixguns.

I've no doubt he made the shots claimed and don't want to start a peeing contest, but shooting game much beyond 75 yds with a set of open sights on a revolver is beyond the pale. We owe the critters better than that and unless you're starving, I see no reason beyond ego. Hell, the retained energy figures alone are daunting.

Sierra shows a 240 gr JHP at 1300 fps at the muzzle, with a 100 yd zero, and 623 ft-lbs of energy, has dropped 28" low at 200, and has 489 ft-lbs of punch left. The 200 yd drop figure seems right with the loads I was using for deer hunting and I was pretty confident at 75 with it from most any rest, but beyond that, using real world field positions and Iron Sights...I passed on all opportunities.

Hatcher's Notebook gives some interesting info on ranging with various military bullets back in the day of the long .30. It's a good read for any number of reasons.

JMHO, Rod

April 15, 2013, 08:51 PM	#1
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,987	More long range stuff........ I can't document this, so you're free to say it never happened. I remember reading of a test by the US Army using an M1911A1 .45 Automatic firing at extreme range. The pistol was held in a machine rest, and elevated incrementally until the maximun range was determined. The maximun range was something like 1,650 yards. All bullets struck within a given area. The point was that the bullet fired from a pistol was stabilized throughout it trajectory, that is, it did not tumble after losing most of its velocity. What this proved to the US Army is not known, other than probably some Ordnance officers had a pleasant afternoon of shooting. Bob Wright

April 16, 2013, 08:13 AM	#2
2000ShadowACE Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Location: Eastern Iowa Posts: 69	That sounds like a fun project. I wish I had a range that long to try it. __________________ We have nothing to fear, but politicians.

April 16, 2013, 10:27 AM	#4
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Recall reading in early 70's,... that in the 20's, the Ordnance Department did shooting in Florida Gulf coast for max range of the various Cal.30 ammo. So that might have been a good "what if" situation. I have personally shot my 1911 @ 100 using the commercial 100yd small rifle target, and using the base of the front sight in the rear notch and got great groups using 230gr FMJ. Sometimes I'll shoot just at back berm to get relation to impact and aim point.

April 16, 2013, 10:44 AM	#5
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	5 gallon bucket filled with sand at 213 yards is fun and entertaining once you get the Kentucky elevation figured out. Wind was not a problem. 7" groups at 100 yards is possible, maybe gun can do better but I cannot. I know of guys who shoot their 45's at 300 to 500yards but they are tricked out guns with scopes and I'm to old, to shaky and to poor to afford that kind of gun to do that kind of shooting. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

April 16, 2013, 07:33 PM	#6
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Nice shooting, Old Grump. Remind me not to insult you from any distance!! Yep, plinking at long range is fun! We've got a cpl of the old style 20# propane tanks for that purpose, that are good targets at any range. Out at 200 they're fun with a .22 rifle...teaches you a lot about windage, and that little "bink" when you hit them is very satisfying. I've tried walking a .45 out to that range, but didn't have much luck on the tank. With a good .44 and a 6-1/2" barrel and a rock solid back rested position, I did better, (one or two maybe per cylinder full) but nothing like what Keith claimed in Sixguns. I've no doubt he made the shots claimed and don't want to start a peeing contest, but shooting game much beyond 75 yds with a set of open sights on a revolver is beyond the pale. We owe the critters better than that and unless you're starving, I see no reason beyond ego. Hell, the retained energy figures alone are daunting. Sierra shows a 240 gr JHP at 1300 fps at the muzzle, with a 100 yd zero, and 623 ft-lbs of energy, has dropped 28" low at 200, and has 489 ft-lbs of punch left. The 200 yd drop figure seems right with the loads I was using for deer hunting and I was pretty confident at 75 with it from most any rest, but beyond that, using real world field positions and Iron Sights...I passed on all opportunities. Hatcher's Notebook gives some interesting info on ranging with various military bullets back in the day of the long .30. It's a good read for any number of reasons. JMHO, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; April 16, 2013 at 07:46 PM.

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