Pocket Pistols

[westphoenix]

Murph,
I actually did read some reasons for the mag disconnect.
I am still not convinced on the reasoning for it (at least the reasons I read).

Here is one that stuck out to me:

Originally Posted by http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1137189008/1#1

Example:This Kevin fellow mentions the magazine disconnect.Somehow he missed the fact that a live round cannot be ejected from the chamber w/o a mag inserted,either.Neither is a defect nor a compromise.
When the Seecamp was being developed,many were questioning the safety of all "mouse guns".Seecamp wanted a way to make the pistol impossible to fire in an instant,then just as quickly possible to fire,so it can easily be made safe if left unattended.
What about the fact that it won't eject that chambered round w/o the magazine?An unfortunate bi-product of the magazine safety?Nope.A well thought out FURTHER safety device.Seecamp planned for the worst of all situations:A child handling the gun w/o an adult present.If the responsible owner of the Seecamp took the precaution of removing the mag but left a round in the chamber,the child not only cannot fire that round,s/he cannot cycle the slide and gain access to a live round of ammo.Genius.

Please note Larry Seecamp replies to this same thread and does not disagree with the statements made by the above quoted.
If you have time to remove a mag from a pocket pistol to make it safe you have time to put that pistol in your pocket or in your safe. A responsible owner doesn't leave guns sitting around where children can get them. If someone has a really good reason for a mag disconnect that also locks the slide closed, I would love to hear it and possibly change my opinion.

I know with my posts about the mag disconnect I am probably coming across as someone who doesn't like the Seecamp, etc. That is not that case I really do like the pistol, but that one feature is more of a disadvantage than an advantage IMO. Any other Seecamp owners agree with me? If they had two models; one with and one without the mag disconnect which would you rather have?

[skeeter1]

I had a Beretta Jetfire some time ago, predecessor to the Tomcat/Bobcat, but SA-only, and unfortunately chambered in .22 Short. It was very high quality, however.

If I were to buy another pocket pistol, I'd probably go with the Seecamp. The .380 would be prefferable to the .32, but according to my reference guide, is significantly more expensive. Either one would be a decent BUG.

[murphjup]

West,

Yes after doing some research the Magazine Safety is just that, that the pistol can't be fired with the magazine removed...

Another thread:

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...m=1127611875/0

As with any weapon as far as I am concerned it should be in a safe when not if use, or not standing by for use...

You can use your own reasoning as to where and when this would be beneficial.... I carry my Seecamp daily.. keep in mind that this weapon is designed as a last line of defense, it is not meant to be an "offensive weapon"... Most agree that even a magazine reload would not take place, since it's not the type of weapon, designed for a gun fight...

When I wanted a pocket pistol, I decided upon the Seecamp for a few reasons....

1.) It's very light.

2.) It's very small. Just throw it in a nice pocket holster and put it in my pocket...

3.) It's made like a "Swiss Watch"

It's not my BUG, it's my primary carry.... I have both a .32 and a .380 on order...

If it doesn't suit you, that's fine.... but for what it is designed for it's a heck of a nice pistol...

Let me know if I can be of anymore assitance... I don't think the magazine safety was designed to be a primary safety on the pistol, but a way of making it safe if you wanted/needed to...

West, I never even consider the Magazine Safety, I know about it of course, but the gun is always loaded, and when not in use it is put into a gunsafe.... I, like you, would not leave the gun sitting around even with the magazine removed... so it really is of no consequence to me...

[murphjup]

Pocket Semi Auto Comparison chart...

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

[hoplophile]

Pinning the magazine safety on the Seecamp makes it exactly like the NAA Guardian in operation.

[Savage99]

Thanks all for an interesting discussion. I have owned a Seacamp 32 and a KelTec 32 also. I have a problem shooting DA only guns. I just can't hit a thing with them. Perhaps its that my hands are large but in any case I tried and I can't do it. Also both the Seacamp and the P32 keyholed all shots! I sent the Keltec back as it was new and as above I still could not hit a thing with it. I had my friend shoot the KelTec with the suggested ammo which I think is WW something from memory. He is an excellent pistol shot scoring 280 and above in gallery and he shoots the 45 too. He missed the target every time at 15 yds!

Therefore I prefer DA or SA pocket pistols. I carry a Beretta 21A (.22LR) and had a Berreta 950 .25 ACP. I also have a nice S&W Chiefs Special Air Weight but its a little too big for my pocket.

I looked at a AMT Backup today in 380 and although its a little heavy it would conceal. Thats my current search and the reason for being on this thread.

[NCHornet]

There only one solution for your problem. Do what I did and buy one of these sweet guns. They work like a semi auto should. I just picked up this beauty today that has been gutter sniped. Have a custom holster from K&D in 8-10 weeks!!

[westphoenix]

Originally Posted by Savage99

I have a problem shooting DA only guns. I just can't hit a thing with them. Perhaps its that my hands are large but in any case I tried and I can't do it.

Originally Posted by NCHornet

There only one solution for your problem. Do what I did and buy one of these sweet guns. They work like a semi auto should.

The NAA Guardians are double action only pistols. How is that the solution to his problem?
Or are you replying to my original post and not the person before you? Sorry if that is the case.
The solution would be to practice more with double action only pistol(s), start out close and slowly move the target outward. These pocket pistols are for close range, or in my case point blank. If my Seecamp comes out of the pocket its most likely going to be fired within 10 feet of the target.

[PSP]

westphoenix said,

Any other Seecamp owners agree with me? If they had two models; one with and one without the mag disconnect which would you rather have?

I own and carry a Seecamp, and can honestly say the magazine disconnect matters not. What matters is that it works reliably. I will say this; I have used this feature to make the gun safe to handle. I can think of no defensive scenario that the disconnect would have any influence on.

[westphoenix]

Originally Posted by PSP

I can think of no defensive scenario that the disconnect would have any influence on.

The one I thought of is:
What if while the pistol is in your pocket you somehow accidentally hit the mag release. The mag would slightly pop, the mag would not drop out, and the disconnect would take over. Now you get mugged and reach for your trusty pocket pistol. You pull it out and pull the trigger, but you cant pull the trigger. You may have just lost your life over a safety feature. I would rather get one shot off than none.

[AK103K]

I could see this maybe being a problem with the NAA's pushbutton safety, but I really dont see it, nor have I ever had it happen, with the Seecamps heel release. I still think its a non issue.

[westphoenix]

I agree its more likely that the Guardians mag would accidentally be released with the push button release. The Guardian doesn't have a disconnect though so it could still fire one round. I don't think I will ever accidentally release the mag on my Seecamp the way I carry it. If it did happen it wouldn't be the most unlikely thing that ever happened.

[PSP]

westphoenix said,

The one I thought of is:
What if while the pistol is in your pocket you somehow accidentally hit the mag release. The mag would slightly pop, the mag would not drop out, and the disconnect would take over. Now you get mugged and reach for your trusty pocket pistol. You pull it out and pull the trigger, but you cant pull the trigger. You may have just lost your life over a safety feature. I would rather get one shot off than none.

Even if that unlikely event happened. the gun would probably still operate because the mag has to be removed about half way. These are not drop-free mags by any stretch. They have to be pulled out. The Keltec and NAA do historically have this mag release problem.

I seems you have little confidence in the Seecamp and it's design. Perhaps for your own peace of mind, you should not carry it. One reason I carry my Seecamp is that I have a high degree of confidence in it and it's design and features are those I desire to have in a pocket gun. The good news is there are a number to choose from these days.

[NCHornet]

Accidently releasing the mag on the Guardian is also not likely. The mag release button hardly sticks out above the surface of the frame. You really need to intentionaly hit the mag release button on these guns. I do agree there are lots of choices in this group of guns. Choose what fits your needs the best.

[los]

Theories based on possibility are endless and inconclusive. Probability and propensity issues are based on documented events.

Human error will play a major role on inadvertent Seecamp and/or Guardian magazine release.

How many here, are that careless??

[PSP]

NCHornet,

Read about the trouble you're having with the Guardian. Hope things work out. NAA has a good rep for service. It's a bummer not having a new gun to fondle, seperation anxiety can get intense.

[NCHornet]

Thanks man, it is killing me. They are sending a new mag release button and spring. I guess this was a problem with some models and a easy fix. The deal with the night sights not glowing anymore is not really their fault because they have a sub contractor do the gutter sniping, so yes, I will be without the gun for a few weeks but when the slide comes back I will have new night sights and the new mag release should have already arrived and installed, so I should be good to go. Now if Palehorse holsters would decide that they are in business and send me the holster I paid for a week ago that is supposedly in stock, I will be in business!!
Thanks for the comment.
NCHornet

[UH1-D Rotorhead]

...Walther PPK, I find that for pocket carry, revolver or auto, the S&W J frame will always be second to none...gotta' have an auto, you say....then the Walther PPK is the ONLY solution...the rest are just expensive boy toys that make loud noises

[AK103K]

I'm still trying to figure out how y'all get any of them in your pockets. I must be to skinny and wear the wrong pants.

[westphoenix]

I hear that
I don't consider the PPK a pocket pistol.

[denfoote]

I don't consider the PPK a pocket pistol.

Oh, I dunno.
I carry my PPK/S in a Uncle Mike's #2 pocket holster.
It does just fine for me!!

[Playboypenguin]

Oh, I dunno.
I carry my PPK/S in a Uncle Mike's #2 pocket holster.
It does just fine for me!

How big a guy are you?
I am not a big guy...6'1" 200lbs..but I am not small either and I could never carry a PPK in pants that actually fit me.

[AK103K]

......I could never carry a PPK in pants that actually fit me.

Nothing I'd be seen dead in anyway.

[NCHornet]

then the Walther PPK is the ONLY solution...the rest are just expensive boy toys that make loud noises

Does this mean you are willing to be shot by my .32 NAA Guardian? Afterall, it is such a puny worthless cartridge, it will probably bounce off your superman body, lol!!!!
I just hate replies like "If you don't carry X gun, your not a man, or anything else is just a toy" There is not one gun made that is right for everyone. Stick to giving info on what works for you. The end decision is for each and every member to decide for themselves. For me, I am the same size as Playboy, and wear jeans all the time, and the PPK is to big for pocket carry, will it fit in a pocket? Sure it will, but just because a gun will fit in a pocket doesn't mean it is a good gun for pocket carry. It is so big the draw is very slow. I have roughly the same size gun in a Sig P232, pictured in a prior post, it will fit in my pocket, but I sure can't draw it like the 32ACP. If you wear cargo pants daily than I can see the PPK working for you, but most of us don't. BTW. The Sig P232 is the gun the PPK wishes to be!! Lol, just kidding, gotta love these forums. To the original poster, I highly recommend the Guardian in 32ACP, if you can find one with the gutter sniping you are a lucky man.
Take Care

[westphoenix]

Originally Posted by NCHornet

To the original poster, I highly recommend the Guardian in 32ACP

I already purchased a Seecamp, 54 posts ago .

Do I like my Seecamp, yes, do I carry my Seecamp with confidence, yes, do I like the mag disconnect, no, am I going to get rid of it because of the mag disconnect, no, am I beating a dead horse about the mag disconnect, you better believe it!