7mm vs 30-06

[W. C. Quantrill]

Good Luck, Man. I hope you get a good buck.

[ForneyRider]

Like many a post, 7mm Remington Mag has flatter trajectory, because it has more case capacity resulting in higher velocity.

.30-06 can do 220gr bullets. Biggest I've seen for 7mm is 175gr factory load and 180gr target bullet.

For those long shots(1000 yards) with a BDC scope across a canyon to drop that prize elk, the 7mm Mag.

My coworkers and I shot a .30-06 Ruger m77 and a Remington 700 (SPS?) in Rem. 7mm Mag on the same day. The 7mm Mag had a lot more felt recoil and sharper recoil. .30-06 was more like a push. They were both very loud. Both were factory rounds, can't remember the bullet grain.

Bought 150gr Winchester 7mm Mag at Wally World for 20$.

[Firepower!]

What would be the maximum effective range for 7mm Rem Mag, and for 30.06, with their optimal loads?

[mikenbarb]

Im wondering why the 7mm mag is considered better than the .270 or .280?? They have almost identical muzzle velocities. The 7mm mag shoots a 160 grain at around 2950fps and the .270 or .280 with a 150 grain is the same. Wheres the difference? My thoughts are that the 7mm mag isnt all that its made out to be when a .270 or .280 can do the same thing. I have a few rifles in different cals. but my favorite is the 300 win mag. With the muzzle brake it kicks like a .243. Yes the muzzle blast is more but its worth it because it kicks like a sissy gun now.

[Brad Clodfelter]

Mike,

The 280 Rem is very close in ballistics to the 7MM Rem Mag. But if you go to the Federal website and look at ballistic charts, you will see that the 7MM Rem Mag has about 150fps advantage when comparing the same weight bullets between the 2 cartridges. It isn't much like you said. Actually the 280 Rem is one cartridge that should be a lot more popular than it is. It is really one of the best all around calibers out there. It will pretty well do it all.

[taylorce1]

The .280 never caught on well because the fact that the 7mm Rem Mag was already popular and Remington chambered the cartridge in the wrong rifle to start. While the 740 and 760’s are good rifles they should have brought it out in M700 bolt action first and I think you would have seen greater success. Don’t get me wrong the .280 has a very loyal following and it is much deserved.

The truth is with a .270, .280, 7mm Rem Mag, .308, & .30-06 really there isn't a hill of beans difference between all of these rifle cartridges and their terminal performance on game. You can compare SD and BC all day and tout that one is better than the other but truthfully when it comes down to killing big game they all have impressive records. Plus they all have the power to take game (elk sized) out to 500 yards with factory ammunition , but all of them really shine when you hand load each caliber to your rifle.

As far as sectional densities go, with equal weight bullets the .270 will out penetrate the 7mm and .308 calibers as Roy Reali stated in his earlier post with the SD calculator. Why? It is pretty simple the smaller the diameter of the bullet and the heavier it is the higher BC and SD it will have because you have to make it longer to get the weight. There are getting to be more and more .277 caliber bullets with better BC’s than the 7mm just look it up on the web if you don’t believe me.

What I stated holds true with every caliber that is why there are grains of bullets that are better for certain calibers. Just look at the reputation the 6.5X55 has if you don’t believe me, use the SD calculator that Roy gave us to test it. That is why I don't subscribe to the theory of a one caliber does it all rifle. Some people will say that the .30-06 is the most versatile with being able to load 110-220 grain bullets, but I’ve only found my rifle to shoot really well the 165-200 grain bullets.

What I’ve found in my trials in reloading is that my .270 really likes 130 grain bullets, my .280 likes 140’s, and my .30-06 likes 180 grain. Sure they shoot other grains well but these are the best performers out of each of these calibers for me. These bullets give me the best accuracy and I use them all on different game animals.

My .270 is my pronghorn and deer rifle and has been my main elk rifle in the past, and the .30-06 is what I use to hunt black bear and back up elk rifle. The .280 I own my brother in law has laid claim too after I let him borrow it, I doubt I'll ever get it back but that is ok as he is my main hunting partner and I have plenty other rifles to use. I've retired all my sub .30 calibers as elk rifles not because they don't work, I just have other rifles that need an animal to hunt. I have rifles in 8mm, .338, .358 and .375 calibers that have become my primary elk rifles.

[davlandrum]

It just seems to kill deer quicker and hits them harder with more ft/lbs of energy.

This statement just makes me nuts! There are way too many variables involved to atribute killing them quicker or hitting harder to the small differences between an -06 and a 7 mm Mag.

My deer with an -06 are just as dead as my buddies with his 7. Sometimes they are bang-flops, sometimes not. Based on my personal experience - my -06 is deadlier because my deer hit the ground faster, in general. The fact that I take a little longer to line up the shot and am pickier on the aiming point couldn't have anything to do with it.

I don't like 7's just because of the way they sound, not anything to do with how they perform.

[Firepower!]

Please rank the following in terms of power and range with 7mm in 160gr others as close to 160 as possible bullet:

308, 30.06, 7mm Rem Mag, 270, and 300 wthby.

[taylorce1]

Please rank the following in terms of power and range with 7mm in 160gr others as close to 160 as possible bullet:

308, 30.06, 7mm Rem Mag, 270, and 300 wthby.

Well here it goes you could do all this by searching Federals web site. All ft-lbs of energy will be at 500 yards.

.270 Win 150 grain Nosler Partition 1238 ft-lbs

7mm Rem Mag 160 grain Nosler Partition 1479 ft-lbs

.308 Win 165 grain Barnes TSX 960 ft-lbs

.30-06 Spring 165 Nosler Partition 1210 ft-lbs

.300 WBY 180 grain Nosler Partition 1836 ft-lbs

I think you can figure out the rest on your own. Trajectories are not that far off either on all these rifles with .300 WBY being the flattest of all cartridges mentioned.


Something a little interesting for you, if you use the "High Energy" loads from Federal with the 180 grain Nosler Partition here is what you get.

.308 Win 1398 ft-lbs @ 500 yards

.30-06 Spring 1570 ft-lbs @ 500 yards

[Brad Clodfelter]

davlandrum,

Don't let it drive you crazy.

I've killed deer with both, and the 7MM Rem Mag if I had to pick just one deer cartridge as a do all, it would be it. Nothing wrong with a 30-06. I've already said it was one of my favorites. So is the 270. It's hard to pick one cartridge as a do all deer rifle. There's just too many variables to say one is the best over another. I just think the 7MM Rem Mag is a better overall deer cartridge than the 30-06. It shoots the same weight bullet faster and hits with more energy. Yes you can reload the 30-06 to get better performance than some of the factory loads, but you can do the exact same for the 7MM Rem Mag. When you have factory loads that will do what some of the Rem or Federal loads do, it would be hard to beat the performance that some of these factory loads will give you.

These loads will beat the Federal 30-06 High Energy loads.

http://www.remington.com/products/am...C7MMB*PRA7MMRB

[Brad Clodfelter]

Also, since we are knit picking.

Show me any factory 30-06 load that will push over 2200fps at the 500yd mark.

The loads I showed you above will. That's what I call carrying out the velocity of a bullet. That's why I like the 7MM Rem Mag. That velocity retention means added knockdown power at all ranges one you get out there a bit.

Now if you were to tell me the 300 Win Mag is better than the 7MM Rem Mag, you would get no arguement from me. I can justify with the ballistics to why you may want to say that. I also know a few guys that kill deer with them each year. They too are a deer buster.

[Brad Clodfelter]

I don't like 7's just because of the way they sound, not anything to do with how they perform

.

I've never ever judged a deer cartridge by the way they sound.

That statement right there tells me you don't want to ever do a side-by-side comparison between two calibers because you would only judge the actual performance of the two by the way they sound.

But hey, to each his own.

Your deer rifle may beat mine in ballistics, but it sounds like crap. LOL!

[davlandrum]

Brad -

At the ranges I have killed mulies and seen them killed, the sound of the rifle is the only difference.

I have yet to kill a deer over 150 yds (probably even that is a stretch - 100 yds and some change maybe). That is why I am not worried about fps at 500 yds. I would not take that long of a shot with either, because I don't practice at that range. If you can make use of the increased range, I have no quarrel with the 7.

Honestly, do you think that there is that great of an advantage under 300 yds?

My huntin partner gives me grief about my slow -06 and I give him grief about his loud 7, and we both fill out tags.

I will be hunting this year with a .460 SW pistol anyway, so I am not sure why I jumped in here....

[Art Eatman]

If what I'm using kills deer dead, how can some other cartridge make my deer drop deader?

If I have no trouble in making hits at 300 to 400 yards, how can some other cartridge lessen "no trouble"?

[mikenbarb]

Has the 300 Win.Mag. been put on the back burner due to all the new cartridges out there? I think the 300 win mag is one of the best big game rounds out there next to a 30-30. The main reason I like my 30-30 is it flat out kills stuff dead. And I believe more North American big game animals have been taken with it over any other out there. Including Elk,Bear and Moose. I like to get up close with the game I hunt and try to get within 100yds(or less) no matter what gun im shooting. It just proves to myself that I am a hunter and not a marksman shooting 500-600yds with a 15mph crosswind. If I can get within 20 yds of a whitetail with a long bow, getting within 100yds with a rifle or slug gun is a piece of cake. (just my own thoughts)

[Brad Clodfelter]

Art,

I never ever complained about overkill. The philosophy that dead is dead is very true, but I would much rather have a cartridge that would overkill my deer than underkill it any day. I think too many people like to say you don't need a 7MM Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag because they are in fact overkill. I say that is hogwash. The ballistics speak for each of these cartridges. Sure there are those that say ballistics don't kill deer. But if that was the case, why the trend for all those that used to own 30-30 Winchesters to the flatter shooting calibers like the 270, 7MM-08, 30-06, or 308? Hunters have gotten smarter over the years and learned to extend their range rather than limit yourself to a 150-200yd shot from a 30-30. I say don't blame a cartridge that shoots flatter and beats other cartridges when it comes to overall ballistics and performace on game. I like the 7MM Rem Mag because it flat gets the job done, and reatains its velocity as well as any other round. More and more hunters are realizing the benefits of overall performance that this cartridge will give you. Do you need the extra advantage the 7MM Rem Mag gives you over the 30-06? That's up to you to decide, but don't hate the caliber because it's overkill to you or that it beats up on your cartridge of choice. Accept it for what it is. It's a super whitetail rifle.

[taylorce1]

Brad,

I know you are a staunch advocate for your 7mm Rem Mag, but I have to disagree with you on the fact that it extends you range. With either the .30-06 or the 7mm Rem Mag with a 200 yard zero both bullets fall outside a 10" vital zone between 300-400 yards and that is if you are holding high on the vital zone. If you hold dead center the vital zone with a 200 yard zero the .30-06 drops 5" around 270 yards and the 7mm drops 5" around 290 yards. So roughly all the 7mm does is gain you 20 extra yards over the .30-06. Now if the 7mm would gain an extra 50-60 yards over the .30-06 I'd figure it to beat a great improvement. Any guy with a decent range finder and the dope worked up on his rifle can overcome any disadvantage of the .30-06 pretty easily past 500 yards.

http://www.remington.com/products/am...3006C*PRSC7MMB

[Brad Clodfelter]

I'll agree with that Taylor. There are certain type bullets that you can push through the 30-06 and get just about as good as performance(ballistics) as the 30-06. The Scirocco bullet is one of them. I did not know that the bullet would hit the 2200fps mark at 500yds from the load. I should have looked. So that is my fault. It actually does well over it which surprises me. Most bullets being pushed ove the years from what I have seen just seems to be in favor for the 7MM Rem Mag du to it's smaller diameter which seems to do better in trajectory performance.

So with that, I'll conclude that the 30-06 can be made to dang near match the overall performance of the 7MM Rem Mag. I just hate to see someone give a bad rap to a good cartridge when it comes to shooting most typical bullets with excellent overall downrange ballistics.

[taylorce1]

Definatly not giving the 7mm Rem Mag a bad rap, it is a good cartridge in it's own right. The 7mm Rem Mag was just very well marketed and most people bought it hook, line, and sinker. The truth is while it is a good cartridge it is only marginaly better than the competition, which is true with most cartridges that are the latest and greatest.

[BIGR]

7 Mag. whizbanger might be a touch better the the 06 and you could say the 300 WIN MAG is better than the 7 Mag, and the 338 WIN mag is better than that and on and on. 30.06 has such a great bullet selection and will kill deer just as dead as the 7 MAG will. If you like using the 7 MAG then knock yourself out, without a doubt its proven itself to be a decent caliber. With a recent surge of new whizbanger calibers, this my caliber is better than yours debate will go on until the end of time. If the shoe fits wear it and wear it with pride.

[VonFireball]

The 7mm Rem Mag was just very well marketed and most people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Maybe they bought it hook, line, and sinker because overall, it outperforms the competition.

You say it like Barack says "clings to guns and religion"......as though that were a bad thing.

The truth is while it is a good cartridge it is only marginaly better than the competition, which is true with most cartridges that are the latest and greatest.

Never mind the fact that the 7mm mag has been one of the "latest and greatest" for over 40 years, pushing 50.

As far as I'm concerned, save the .270's and such for the kid's christmas presents. I'll take a good .300 win mag or 7mm mag any day.

Nothin' wrong with a trusty 30-06 though. Great cartridge.

Some people seem to act as though your life hinges on the decision.

Just get the 7 mag.

[taylorce1]

Maybe they bought it hook, line, and sinker because overall, it outperforms the competition.

You say it like Barack says "clings to guns and religion"......as though that were a bad thing.

Show me where the 7mm Rem Mag significantly out performs the .30-06, .270 or .280? At best the 7mm only averages around 200 ft-lbs of energy at any given range plus only extends the range by 20-30 yards. I have nothing against the 7mm Rem Mag, but like I said it was marketed very well when it came out, how else can you explain its success using a metric caliber in the United States?

To be honest I don't think you can significantly out perform the .30-06 until you step up in caliber to the .338 Win Mag or the .375 H&H. With these to cartridges and 225+ grain bullets you can have roughly the same trajectory as a .30-06 with 180 grain bullets. Plus with the right factory you can have over 500 ft-lbs more energy at 500 yards with these calibers over factory .30-06. The 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag can't even do that.

I've owned two 7mm Rem Mags over the years and felt that they never truly lived up to the hype. I found that when I went hunting I was grabbing my .270 more and more as it is a lighter rifle that shoots extremely well for me. So I sold one rifle and re-barreled the other to .375 Ruger just to try it.

[VonFireball]

Show me where the 7mm Rem Mag significantly out performs the .30-06, .270 or .280? At best the 7mm only averages around 200 ft-lbs of energy at any given range plus only extends the range by 20-30 yards.

You just showed it for me.

I have nothing against the 7mm Rem Mag, but like I said it was marketed very well when it came out, how else can you explain its success using a metric caliber in the United States?

You can market a product all you like. If the product doesn't back up the marketing hype it will typically fail to be a successful product. Obviously, the 7mm magnum has lived up to the hype surrounding it when it came out. It has become a classic and timeless caliber.

[Art Eatman]

Brad, I don't see any problems with the 7mm Maggie. I had one for a while; developed some loads for it. It's just that I couldn't see where inside of 500 yards it would do any more than my '06.

FWIW, my old Sierra book shows a 7mm 140-grain bullet max at 3,100. Mr. Hodgdon says 3,200.

The Federal Premium High-Energy '06 with the Sierra 165-grain HPBT has been chronographed at 3,150 from a 26" barrel. My '06 has a 26" barrel (heavy sucker).

So I don't see any practical difference...

Art

[taylorce1]

You can market a product all you like. If the product doesn't back up the marketing hype it will typically fail to be a successful product. Obviously, the 7mm magnum has lived up to the hype surrounding it when it came out. It has become a classic and timeless caliber.

Totally agree with you, the 7mm Rem Mag is a classic hunting cartridge, but it had to be heavily marketed to be successful. If Remington had quietly brought out the 7mm RM do you think it would be as popular as it is today? At the time it came out Americans had a strong aversion to metric calibers. Plus it is a very capable round and did back itself up with performance. Plus it was competing against the wildly popular .30-06 and .270.

The point I'm trying to make when comparing these cartridges is as Art put it:

So I don't see any practical difference...