Remember the Alamo tomorrow

[berkmberk1]

Black powder and Freedom go hand in hand. A hearty "Hooah" to those who used Charcoal, Saltpeter, and Sulphur to help forge a new country....Texas...

The following courtesy of Wikipedia....

At the end of 12 days the number of Mexican forces attacking the post was reported as high as 4,000 to 5,000, ...After a 13-day period in which the defenders were tormented with bands blaring at night (including buglers sounding the no-mercy call El Degüello, which literally translates into "slit throat"), occasional artillery fire, and an ever closing ring of Mexicans cutting off potential escape routes, Santa Anna planned the final assault for March 6. Santa Anna raised a blood red flag which made his message perfectly clear. No quarter would be given for the defenders....Lieutenant Colonel Travis wrote in his final dispatches: "The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered their demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat."[2]....The Texians initially pushed back one of the attacking columns, although Cos' column was able to breach the Alamo's weak north wall, which was just a plain wooden palisade, fairly quickly where the first defenders fell — among them William Barret Travis, who was allegedly killed by a shot to the head. Meanwhile, the rest of Santa Anna's columns continued the assault while Cos's men flooded into the fortress. The Alamo defenders were spread too thin to adequately defend both the walls and the invading Mexicans. By 8:00 that morning, nearly all of the Alamo defenders had been slain in brutal hand-to-hand combat. Jim Bowie is reported by some survivors to have been bayoneted and shot to death in his cot. The battle, from the initial assault to the capture of the Alamo, lasted only an hour. According to several reports, a group of male survivors were executed after the battle. [3] [4] According to one report Davy Crockett was among them, but the provenance of the document making this claim has been questioned by a number of experts (see below for more details).[4]....Texas had declared independence on March 2. The delegates elected David G. Burnet as Provisional President and Lorenzo de Zavala as Vice-President. The men inside the Alamo likely never knew this event had occurred. Houston still held his rank of supreme military commander. The Texian Army numbered around 2,000 men at the time of the Alamo siege. Successive losses at Goliad, Refugio, Matamoros and San Antonio de Béxar, reduced the army to about 1,000 men.

On April 21, at the Battle of San Jacinto, Santa Anna's 1,250-strong force was defeated by Sam Houston's army of about 910 men who used the now-famous battle cry, "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!" The Mexican losses for the day were about 650 killed (in only eighteen minutes) with 600 taken prisoner. Texian losses were about 9 killed and 18 wounded. Santa Anna was captured the following day, dressed in a common soldier's jacket, having discarded his finer clothing in hopes of escaping. He issued orders that all Mexican troops under the command of Vicente Filisola and José de Urrea were to pull back into Mexico.

[berkmberk1]

Considering the time frame, imagine what the outcome might have been if the battle and the debut of the Colt 1836 had coincided and the defenders could have been issued one or two Patersons a piece......might not the battle have raged on for a while, maybe to a draw giving the rest of the Texian forces time to affect a relief? 300 or so five shot pistols would have at least made the final assault a VERY costly affair!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Paterson.jpg

[rem870hunter]

we did loose alot of men at the fort. and that battle will not be forgotten, if it happened later by i guess 10 years. the revolver and the percussion cap rifle/musket would've made a difference. whether it would've been a victory on our side or not, it would have been a costly fight for the mexican army. if the sticks were stone and mortar they may have a better chance of defending that area. i'm sure mr. crockett gave the mexicans hell.

[4V50 Gary]

I don't think caplock guns would make much of a difference. They're not that much faster than a flint but they're more reliable. Even if the minie rifle was used (much faster to load than a round ball flintlock), it wouldn't have made any difference since the sheer weight of numbers ensured Santa Ana's success. Revolvers are best suited for close in fighting in an enclosed area. If they could bottleneck Santa Ana's men, they could pile up the bodies into a barricade by the doorway. That would slow them down and if done right, someone could reload for round #2. Naturally, if this was the case, the Mexicans would haul up artillery or set up a keg of powder and blow 'em out.

[berkmberk1]

(per Wikipedia article) At the end of 12 days the number of Mexican forces attacking the post was reported as high as 4,000 to 5,000, but only about 1,400 to 1,600 soldiers were used in the investment and the final assault. ...illness and desertion had since reduced the force. The siege was scientific and professionally conducted in the Napoleonic style. After a 13-day period in which the defenders were tormented with bands blaring at night (including buglers sounding the no-mercy call El Degüello, which literally translates into "slit throat"), occasional artillery fire, and an ever closing ring of Mexicans cutting off potential escape routes, Santa Anna planned the final assault for March 6. Santa Anna raised a blood red flag which made his message perfectly clear. No quarter would be given for the defenders.

Lieutenant Colonel Travis wrote in his final dispatches: "The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered their demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat."[21]

The Mexican army attacked the Alamo in four columns plus a reserve and a pursuit and security force, starting at around 5:00 a.m. The first column of 300 to 400 men led by Martin Perfecto de Cos moved towards the northwest corner of the Alamo. The second was of 380 men commanded by Colonel Francisco Duque. The third column comprised 400 soldiers led by Colonel José Martin a Romero. The fourth comprised 100 cazadores (light infantry) commanded by Colonel Juan Morales. The attacking columns had to cover 200 to 300 yards (180 to 275 m) of open ground before they could reach the Alamo walls....

The Texians initially pushed back one of the attacking columns, although Cos' column was able to breach the Alamo's weak north wall, which was just a plain wooden palisade, fairly quickly where the first defenders fell — among them William Barret Travis, who was allegedly killed by a shot to the head. Meanwhile, the rest of Santa Anna's columns continued the assault while Cos's men flooded into the fortress. The Alamo defenders were spread too thin to adequately defend both the walls and the invading Mexicans. By 8:00 that morning, nearly all of the Alamo defenders had been slain in brutal hand-to-hand combat.

Now........as all "what if" scenarios are just that........what if 180 men each had two Patersons and therefore 900 more shots available, instantaniously as it were, when the Mexican forces breached the walls? Many if not most of these troops would have already fired their muskets leaving them only their bayonets. "What if" they were now met by a fusilade of close quarter rapid fire shots from weapons much more suited to close in combat than a seven foot long 8-10 lb "sharp stick"?

Much would depend on the defenders coordinating some sort of fall back maneuver to be able to mass their fires. But If they could, might they not have repulsed that attack? Maybe even another? Having sprung a demoralizing suprise - a previously unknown source of firepower - might not the Mexicans have fallen back at least temporarily to regroup and reassess their operation...........What If?

[4V50 Gary]

Actually, that's 2160 shots more. We have to deduct for misses or multiple hits to put down one assailant. Still, it could have caused the Forlon Hope to lose momentum.

[mykeal]

We're visiting in San Antonio this week. Went downtown last night to the Luminaria Arts festival (San Antonio will hold a festival at the drop of a hat, and they do a very good job of it). Had dinner at a marvelous restaurant in one of my old haunts, La Mansion on the Riverwalk, then walked over to the Alamo through the art displays, street vendors and bands, street performers and thousands of festival goers. The symphony was playing in the courtyard in front of the Alamo.

Could not help but think about what happened there. Sure hope those who died there on both sides can see what it's like now: thousands of people of many races, but primarily Hispanic and Caucasian having a good time together in a fun, peaceful atmosphere. They did not die for nothing.

[berkmberk1]

Errrrrrrrr.........I think we're both wrong........ You got me thinking (math isn't my forte'). There would be twice as many rounds as I originally figured, but......weren't the Patersons five shot? Ergo - 1800 rds!!