Want to reload 45-70, clueless

51_60_colt · July 25, 2009, 02:28 PM

Hey all, I am interested in reloading 45-70, but I have no idea where to start, black powder? pyrodex? smokeless? Tools to do it? Informative paper things (a.k.a. books) whats good? Thanks!

Jim Watson · July 25, 2009, 04:51 PM

What gun?

The basics of loading .45-70 are no different from any other straight case.
There are some things to know about loading cast bullets.
There is a good deal to know about loading black powder.

51_60_colt · July 25, 2009, 07:09 PM

its for a NEF handi rifle, nothing fancy, I've never reloaded before, looking to get into it at some point. I've been using blackhills smokless 405gr ammo and it seems a little weak to me. Plus it costs like, 35 or 40 $$$ a box for 20 rounds of anything else.

darkgael · July 25, 2009, 09:39 PM

One of my 45-70s is a Handi-rilfe. Nice, strong gun.
About reloading 45-70's in BP.
First, you buy a reloading manual - I suggest the Lyman #49 Manual, NOT their BP manual. Read the opening sections about the practice of reloading/handloading your own ammo.
THEN, get a BP loading manual and read through it. Again, Lyman publishes a good one. A very informative book is Mike Venturino/Steve Garbe's "BP Cartridge Reloading Primer". A favorite of mine is Paul Matthews' "Shooting the BP Cartridge Rifle."
After the manuals, you will have a good sense of what you need.
The 45-70 is an easy cartridge to deal with. At its most basic, you don't even need a press or dies. You need a manual for loads, BP and a way to accurately measure the powder charges. You need cases and bullets, some 0.030" fiber wads, and large rifle primers. You need a tool to deprime and reprime the cases.
You can load safe accurate ammo this way. Everything else is an extra and a convenience.
Pete

51_60_colt · July 25, 2009, 10:36 PM

how do you press the bullet in w/o any tools? curious. Thanks for the info. I'll check them out!

Jim Watson · July 26, 2009, 07:09 AM

The simple thing to do would be to get a Lyman handloading manual and study the general information on reloading, then the section on reloading the .45-70. Buy a press, dies, powder scale and such accessories as are recommended in the manual and online. Load some jacketed bullets and smokeless powder, which is not complicated at all. If you want to go further, Lyman covers lead bullets.

If you want to load black, get the literature Pete recommends and have at it.

alemonkey · July 26, 2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

how do you press the bullet in w/o any tools?

By not resizing the cases after they've been fireformed to your chamber. The case mouth will be large enough to allow you to seat the bullet with thumb pressure. Make sure there is NO gap between the powder and the base of the bullet - they must be in contact. BP can generate an unsafe pressure spike if there's a gap between the powder charge and the projectile.

If you're loading without a die to compress the powder charge you can use a brass drop tube to get more powder into the case if desired. That will allow the powder to settle more than just dumping it directly in with a funnel. No matter what method you use, the height of your powder charge determines your bullet seating depth.

Remember your bullets must be lubed with a natural, non petroleum lube. You'll want bullets with at least 2 or 3 lube grooves in order to carry enough lube to keep the fouling soft. I use a .030 cardboard wad under the bullet.

Personally, I do resize the neck of the case just enough put a little tension on the bullet, but it's not necessary on a single shot rifle. I also use a compression die to compress my powder charge to a height that allows my bullet to be seated to where it will be just a couple thousandths off the lands. I seat with a bullet seating die because I feel it gives me a little more consistent seating depth than thumb seating. Again, none of these are necessary and you can produce excellent ammo with just a powder dipper, hand primer, and your thumbs.

I'm by no means an expert, but I've picked up a little knowledge here and there from more experienced shooters. Loading black powder cartridges is a whole different game than smokeless, but it's an awful lot of fun.

W. C. Quantrill · July 26, 2009, 02:49 PM

I load the .45-70 for my original Trapdoor. It has some peculiarities that other rifles wouldnt have what with the shallow 3 groove barrel.

If you choose to load black use real black. To get original level loads, you will be looking at 500 gr SOFT CAST, 1/20 alloy, Govt bullets. They are flat based, and you will want a .45 cal .030 card under them. 70 grains of black FFG powder will fill the case. You will need to use the compression die to compress the powder deep enough to seat the long Govt bullet, as it is too soft and will obiturate if you try to use it to seat the powder. If you load a .45-70-500 as in the original loads, you will not think that they loads are underpowered. The 405 grain hollow based bullet was used in the carbine loads with 55 grains of powder. Do not put a card or anything else under a hollow base bullet, as that defeats the purpose of the hollow base.

Lubes such as crisco and beeswax, or venison tallow and beeswax or commercial black powder lubes should be used. Dont get any petroleum based goo in the barrel or you will have a real mess to clean out. Also, if you recover a bullet and there is any lube left in the grooves, it is too hard and is not doing its job. it should melt and lube the barrel on the way out.

There are several books out on loading the .45-70, and the methods vary depending on which rifle you use.

Hydraulicman · July 29, 2009, 06:13 PM

get yourself a rockchucker reloading kit.

find a place to mount a press

read the speer #14 manual (comes with the kit)

get some hornady oneshot case lube. (you'll need to lube before resizing)

I'd use smokeless powder.

Edward429451 · July 29, 2009, 08:18 PM

I've had really really good results with loading RX7 in the 45/70.

MacGille · July 30, 2009, 04:59 PM

I use a Lee press and RCBS dies. Full case of black (not substitute) compress powder and crimp bullet.(slight crimp for lever guns). If you want to use smokeless(shame on you) then RE7 is perfect for the caliber. 305 gr hollow point at 1800 FPS is a definite stopper. 400 Gr sp at 1800 FPS is my bear load ( very heavy). Don't send the HP bullet faster than 1800 FPS. I did and the bullets opened up in flight. Couldn't guess where they were going. They were getting there quick, but I couldn't predict what county they would come down in.

Whatever load you use get a strong rifle, Marlin 1895, Ruger #1, etc. Loading smokeless in some replicas will get you a hospital bill.

Edward429451 · July 30, 2009, 05:11 PM

To clarify before anyone asks the question...

RX7 = RE7 (Reloader 7)

Some guys write it different.

Jim Watson · July 30, 2009, 05:20 PM

And Alliant calls it Reloder 7.

I think because it is easier to trademark a misspelling.

51_60_colt · July 30, 2009, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the great info everybody. I'm going to pick up a book or two, get an understanding of it and then start. I'm thinking about a Lee hand loader, I dont have alot of space or money for a big set. What do ya'll think? Thanks!

w_houle · July 30, 2009, 07:31 PM

Does anyone here reload this with a paper patch? If so, how does that work?

Claddagh · August 2, 2009, 10:40 AM

Lots of us old guys got started with the original Lee Loader. Reloading at its most basic level, but perfectly good ammo can be produced with it.

It's not very well suited to putting out relatively large numbers of rounds, as the process it uses is a bit time consuming in that every step must be completed in order for each individual round produced rather than being able to 'batch' them on a number of cases. IMO, you might want to take a look at the Lee Hand Press Kit packages being offered at around $50. Still basic and doesn't require a bench of much in the way of storage space, but much more sophisticated, relatively speaking, and versatile to boot.

sundance44s · August 2, 2009, 12:07 PM

W houl I was tempted to try reloading useing paper patching because my Sharps does in deed have the chamber for it ......but after doing the rescearch I discovered something about useing the paper patching that turned me off to it ........Paper patched bullets use the paper to wipe the bore as they are fired , this tight fitting paper has just enough grit to it that it will lap the bore with every shot ( Mike V.) wrote on this sub in one of his books ) Useing grease grove lead bullets will do almost no damage to the bore , and a good grade barrel should last a life time .
So with the freebore type chamber I have , I set my OAL long and use heavy bullets ( .535 gr Lyman Postells ) and am able to load 70gr ( By volume ) B/P in my 45/70 loads ......I`m no competition shooter , but have mastered the 200 yard coffee can shot at 200 yards with open sights .

Fairshake · August 3, 2009, 12:08 AM

You can load for your handi with smokeless to get started. The H&R BC is not a slouch in the accuracy dept. It's only set back is it's 8 lb weight. I see where some of the posters tell about loading the 535 postells with 70gr of BP. That is a very good load but you better have some padding between you and your BC. I also see where no one said a thing about case annealing. If you want to learn how to load those hit in the same hole loads then you need to anneal your cases. To just load some rounds to put down range is very easy and simple. To load rounds that have that MOA with the real powder is far more complicated and you will need a lot more than basic tools. Press, Dies, compression die, annealing tool, case reammer, digital calipers, powder drop tube and stand, loading block, blow tube, ceramic media, tumbler, drying rack,digital scale and the list goes on. As you can see there are stages to reloading and it is best to crawl before you walk. Don't even think about paper patch. Read till you can't read no more then start reading again.

July 25, 2009, 07:09 PM	#3
51_60_colt Member Join Date: March 31, 2009 Location: Winston-Salem or Boone, NC Posts: 76	its for a NEF handi rifle, nothing fancy, I've never reloaded before, looking to get into it at some point. I've been using blackhills smokless 405gr ammo and it seems a little weak to me. Plus it costs like, 35 or 40 $$$ a box for 20 rounds of anything else. __________________ "I'm a big fan of gun control, if there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." NRA

July 25, 2009, 10:36 PM	#5
51_60_colt Member Join Date: March 31, 2009 Location: Winston-Salem or Boone, NC Posts: 76	how do you press the bullet in w/o any tools? curious. Thanks for the info. I'll check them out! __________________ "I'm a big fan of gun control, if there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." NRA

July 26, 2009, 02:49 PM	#8
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	I load the .45-70 for my original Trapdoor. It has some peculiarities that other rifles wouldnt have what with the shallow 3 groove barrel. If you choose to load black use real black. To get original level loads, you will be looking at 500 gr SOFT CAST, 1/20 alloy, Govt bullets. They are flat based, and you will want a .45 cal .030 card under them. 70 grains of black FFG powder will fill the case. You will need to use the compression die to compress the powder deep enough to seat the long Govt bullet, as it is too soft and will obiturate if you try to use it to seat the powder. If you load a .45-70-500 as in the original loads, you will not think that they loads are underpowered. The 405 grain hollow based bullet was used in the carbine loads with 55 grains of powder. Do not put a card or anything else under a hollow base bullet, as that defeats the purpose of the hollow base. Lubes such as crisco and beeswax, or venison tallow and beeswax or commercial black powder lubes should be used. Dont get any petroleum based goo in the barrel or you will have a real mess to clean out. Also, if you recover a bullet and there is any lube left in the grooves, it is too hard and is not doing its job. it should melt and lube the barrel on the way out. There are several books out on loading the .45-70, and the methods vary depending on which rifle you use. __________________ NRA Life Whittington Center Life

July 30, 2009, 04:59 PM	#11
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	I use a Lee press and RCBS dies. Full case of black (not substitute) compress powder and crimp bullet.(slight crimp for lever guns). If you want to use smokeless(shame on you) then RE7 is perfect for the caliber. 305 gr hollow point at 1800 FPS is a definite stopper. 400 Gr sp at 1800 FPS is my bear load ( very heavy). Don't send the HP bullet faster than 1800 FPS. I did and the bullets opened up in flight. Couldn't guess where they were going. They were getting there quick, but I couldn't predict what county they would come down in. Whatever load you use get a strong rifle, Marlin 1895, Ruger #1, etc. Loading smokeless in some replicas will get you a hospital bill. __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

July 30, 2009, 07:31 PM	#15
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	Does anyone here reload this with a paper patch? If so, how does that work? __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

July 25, 2009, 02:28 PM	#1
51_60_colt Member Join Date: March 31, 2009 Location: Winston-Salem or Boone, NC Posts: 76	Want to reload 45-70, clueless Hey all, I am interested in reloading 45-70, but I have no idea where to start, black powder? pyrodex? smokeless? Tools to do it? Informative paper things (a.k.a. books) whats good? Thanks! __________________ "I'm a big fan of gun control, if there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." NRA

July 25, 2009, 04:51 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,572	What gun? The basics of loading .45-70 are no different from any other straight case. There are some things to know about loading cast bullets. There is a good deal to know about loading black powder.

July 25, 2009, 09:39 PM	#4
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Basics One of my 45-70s is a Handi-rilfe. Nice, strong gun. About reloading 45-70's in BP. First, you buy a reloading manual - I suggest the Lyman #49 Manual, NOT their BP manual. Read the opening sections about the practice of reloading/handloading your own ammo. THEN, get a BP loading manual and read through it. Again, Lyman publishes a good one. A very informative book is Mike Venturino/Steve Garbe's "BP Cartridge Reloading Primer". A favorite of mine is Paul Matthews' "Shooting the BP Cartridge Rifle." After the manuals, you will have a good sense of what you need. The 45-70 is an easy cartridge to deal with. At its most basic, you don't even need a press or dies. You need a manual for loads, BP and a way to accurately measure the powder charges. You need cases and bullets, some 0.030" fiber wads, and large rifle primers. You need a tool to deprime and reprime the cases. You can load safe accurate ammo this way. Everything else is an extra and a convenience. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; July 26, 2009 at 07:15 PM.

July 26, 2009, 07:09 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,572	The simple thing to do would be to get a Lyman handloading manual and study the general information on reloading, then the section on reloading the .45-70. Buy a press, dies, powder scale and such accessories as are recommended in the manual and online. Load some jacketed bullets and smokeless powder, which is not complicated at all. If you want to go further, Lyman covers lead bullets. If you want to load black, get the literature Pete recommends and have at it.

July 29, 2009, 06:13 PM	#9
Hydraulicman Member Join Date: June 11, 2009 Posts: 98	get yourself a rockchucker reloading kit. find a place to mount a press read the speer #14 manual (comes with the kit) get some hornady oneshot case lube. (you'll need to lube before resizing) I'd use smokeless powder.

July 29, 2009, 08:18 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I've had really really good results with loading RX7 in the 45/70.

July 30, 2009, 05:11 PM	#12
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	To clarify before anyone asks the question... RX7 = RE7 (Reloader 7) Some guys write it different.

July 30, 2009, 05:20 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,572	And Alliant calls it Reloder 7. I think because it is easier to trademark a misspelling.

July 30, 2009, 07:21 PM	#14
51_60_colt Member Join Date: March 31, 2009 Location: Winston-Salem or Boone, NC Posts: 76	Thanks for the great info everybody. I'm going to pick up a book or two, get an understanding of it and then start. I'm thinking about a Lee hand loader, I dont have alot of space or money for a big set. What do ya'll think? Thanks! __________________ "I'm a big fan of gun control, if there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." NRA

August 2, 2009, 10:40 AM	#16
Claddagh Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 313	Lots of us old guys got started with the original Lee Loader. Reloading at its most basic level, but perfectly good ammo can be produced with it. It's not very well suited to putting out relatively large numbers of rounds, as the process it uses is a bit time consuming in that every step must be completed in order for each individual round produced rather than being able to 'batch' them on a number of cases. IMO, you might want to take a look at the Lee Hand Press Kit packages being offered at around $50. Still basic and doesn't require a bench of much in the way of storage space, but much more sophisticated, relatively speaking, and versatile to boot.

August 2, 2009, 12:07 PM	#17
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	W houl I was tempted to try reloading useing paper patching because my Sharps does in deed have the chamber for it ......but after doing the rescearch I discovered something about useing the paper patching that turned me off to it ........Paper patched bullets use the paper to wipe the bore as they are fired , this tight fitting paper has just enough grit to it that it will lap the bore with every shot ( Mike V.) wrote on this sub in one of his books ) Useing grease grove lead bullets will do almost no damage to the bore , and a good grade barrel should last a life time . So with the freebore type chamber I have , I set my OAL long and use heavy bullets ( .535 gr Lyman Postells ) and am able to load 70gr ( By volume ) B/P in my 45/70 loads ......I`m no competition shooter , but have mastered the 200 yard coffee can shot at 200 yards with open sights .

August 3, 2009, 12:08 AM	#18
Fairshake Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Location: Livingston, La. about 20 miles East of Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 30	45-70 loading You can load for your handi with smokeless to get started. The H&R BC is not a slouch in the accuracy dept. It's only set back is it's 8 lb weight. I see where some of the posters tell about loading the 535 postells with 70gr of BP. That is a very good load but you better have some padding between you and your BC. I also see where no one said a thing about case annealing. If you want to learn how to load those hit in the same hole loads then you need to anneal your cases. To just load some rounds to put down range is very easy and simple. To load rounds that have that MOA with the real powder is far more complicated and you will need a lot more than basic tools. Press, Dies, compression die, annealing tool, case reammer, digital calipers, powder drop tube and stand, loading block, blow tube, ceramic media, tumbler, drying rack,digital scale and the list goes on. As you can see there are stages to reloading and it is best to crawl before you walk. Don't even think about paper patch. Read till you can't read no more then start reading again.