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February 11, 2013, 12:44 PM | #51 |
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ScottRiqui-
I use a trust for all my NFA stuff, and there is still a background check. You are correct in thinking that all the trust does is let you skip the CLEO sign off and fingerprint part (usually for those of us that the CLEO won't sign). The process is: 1. Get your trust 2. Go to gun store and purchase NFA item 3. Store either gives you the Form 4 at that point to mail to BATFE, or you give the store a $200 check and they mail it all for you. Either way, a packet of your paperwork gets sent to the BATFE and the only thing you "walk away" with that day is a reciept. 4. Wait 6 months(approx). During this time the NFA item WILL NOT leave the dealer. 5. BATFE finishes processing the Form 4 and mails it to dealer. Dealer calls you and says come pick it up. 6. Go to gun store, they'll give you the background check form the same as if you were purchasing a firearm. After all, the government calls silencers Title II weapons- which are regarded as firearms. Once that NICS check clears, they'll hand over the Form 4 complete with stamp and the NFA item. Hope that helps. A little long, but I tried to break it down into an easy-to-follow process. Interesting though, I had no idea he was using a silencer/suppressor. |
February 11, 2013, 12:52 PM | #52 |
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Thanks so much - that clears up a lot. So what's going on during the ~6 months that the ATF has your Form 4? Is there any kind of background check being performed, or are they just shuffling around paper?
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February 11, 2013, 12:54 PM | #53 |
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It is suggested that because he was fired that he shouldn't have been able to own guns:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2714385.column This speaks to the thought police. The author feels that since he was police and fired for making a charge that wasn't supported - he should have been identified as a dangerous rogue. He also demonstrated some aftereffects of his service. Thus, he was disqualified to own guns in the authors view. The article also speaks to differential standards for federal disqualification based on criminal behavior vs. that of California. The nuance is that he was police? If he had shown the same signs and gotten fired from a company - seize firearms. Of course, we have no sympathy for him but the suggestion that we had enough info to predict what would happen years later is not supported and leads to the Psychological or Psychiatric thought police.
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February 11, 2013, 01:05 PM | #54 |
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Scottriqui-
What I've been told by a few dealers is that it's more administrative filing on their end. They don't actually ever do a background check of the individual. The whole time it just sits on the shelf at the dealer, although some dealers will allow "conjugal visits" where you can shoot it if there's a range on-site. But they'll take your ID while you're using it. The only background check that's ever been done on me for NFA stuff is when I actually go to pick it up. Again, from what I've been told by guys that do transfers for me is that the BATFE and NICS are two totally different animals. |
February 11, 2013, 01:05 PM | #55 | |
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Quote:
If these same people had to predict *beforehand* who the violent crazies would be, I suspect their accuracy would be pretty poor. |
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February 11, 2013, 01:11 PM | #56 |
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Called Hindsight bias in the trade, nowadays. Everyone knew it, blah, blah.
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February 11, 2013, 01:45 PM | #57 | |
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February 11, 2013, 01:58 PM | #58 |
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So the background investigation for buying NFA gear isn't any different from buying a "regular" firearm, and the months-long waiting period is just a paperwork/admin drill?
Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 11, 2013 at 02:50 PM. |
February 11, 2013, 02:50 PM | #59 |
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Thats correct
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February 11, 2013, 04:33 PM | #60 | |
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The AWB Has a New Supporter
He is big and in the news. A former cop and military officer too.
Jordan Dorner claims that he would not have gone on his murderous rampage if an AWB had been in place. Stunning really when you consider his crimes. Might want to skip down to pages 10-11. While the ravings of an obssesed lunatic this point is getting absolutely no coverage. Although it does answer one question I have wondered about the murderers so far as their position on gun control. We will put him well into the anti camp. http://documents.latimes.com/christo...ner-manifesto/ Quote:
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February 11, 2013, 04:38 PM | #61 |
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February 11, 2013, 04:51 PM | #62 |
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Another thing I've noticed, he claims to have a .50 caliber rifle of some sort, thus negating the armor of the LAPD.
I thought those were illegal in CA?
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February 11, 2013, 05:30 PM | #63 |
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Only illegal for civilians to purchase a .50 BMG
And what weapons has Dorner used that would have been banned under a new AWB?
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February 11, 2013, 08:13 PM | #64 |
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So he stole a .50 from a police armory? Or was issued one?
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February 11, 2013, 08:24 PM | #65 |
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This is an interesting read for 'The Police will protect us' proponents. I just had to share since it shows the difference between policing, which is keeping the peace, and protecting, which is a security detail.
PD even had it's press conference in a bunker area of the station. "More than 40 protection details were assigned to possible targets of Dorner. Police spokesman Cmdr. Andrew Smith said he couldn’t remember a larger manhunt by the department." http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...hing-two-cops/
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February 11, 2013, 09:00 PM | #66 |
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I wonder how many personnel, total, are assigned just to these protection details. I'm generally not a betting man, but I rather suspect that the LAPD is putting a lot more energy and resources into protecting their own than they ever put into protecting even material witnesses in so-called "protective" custody.
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February 11, 2013, 09:40 PM | #67 |
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This may be a hoax, but Feinstein and Boxer are allegedly calling for civilians and LE to lay down their weapons, and give Dorner a chance to turn himself in: http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/
(cue laughter)
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February 11, 2013, 10:30 PM | #68 | |
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This part bugs me. The LAPD has a history of refusing to protect witnesses in impending murder trials. Several material witnesses have been murdered after being refused protection by the LAPD. http://www.prlog.org/11679102-witnes...n-program.html |
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February 11, 2013, 11:57 PM | #69 | |
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February 12, 2013, 12:29 AM | #70 |
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That was a satire article, and not a particularly good one. Always check your sources.
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February 12, 2013, 11:36 AM | #71 |
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Given the facts of the illegal activities (including murder) Dorner is doing, kinda makes it redundant as to the gun laws that now exist or may exist in the future. Somehow it seems that Dorner(or anyone else in his mindset) cares little about the BATFE , NICS or any other laws.
Would seem to me that with Dorner's expertise and training with the LAPD that he would know exactly how he could safely give himself up and that that invitation is always there.... ....but in case he doesn't....Thank You, Feinstein and Boxer for that wonderful, can't we all just get along, brainstorm of fantasy. |
February 12, 2013, 11:58 AM | #72 |
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I would think he is in Mexico by now . I have no clue how this would happen 2 woman , 160lbs light skinned in a blue Toyota were mistaken for this guy .
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...new-truck.html |
February 12, 2013, 12:45 PM | #73 | |
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"The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King, Jr. NRA Endowment Member Last edited by Tom Servo; February 12, 2013 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary snark |
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February 12, 2013, 02:43 PM | #74 |
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You would have thought that they do a media black out ... if the woman would have died they could have planted a weapon ... LOL
30 rounds plus and seven cops and no one hit there target . I want to see the in car video ... LOL They had news report that average Joe who looked like the shooter Dorner are wearing shirts that say I am not the shooter . Last edited by Greguw; February 12, 2013 at 02:48 PM. |
February 12, 2013, 04:45 PM | #75 |
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Just had a brief news update by Associated Press that police have exchanged gunfire with Dorner up in the San Bernardino Mts. Apparently Dorner broke into a cabin occupied by a couple, tied them up to steal their auto.
No further details yet. Supposed to be an update @ 5 pm EST. Last edited by shortwave; February 12, 2013 at 04:54 PM. |
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