Why don't more people use 220 grain bullets in .30-06's and .300 Magnums?

[BluRidgDav]

(I know that the .308 WIN case neck is too short.)

I shoot .30-06's more than any other caliber, and tend to test alot of different loads looking for that ultimate bullet. Started-out shooting bullets that looked good on paper, long range ballistics wise; Federal ammo with fast, sleek Sierra boat-tails. But, after a few bullet failures (breakups at close range and poor penetration on hog armor, etc) I got on the Premium Bullet kick. Found that all my rifles shot better groups with heavier bullets. Gravitated from 150's-to-165's-to-180's, and settled on 180 grain Nosler Partitions. Great performance on every critter, but now I'm tired of spending $25 for a box of ammo. (I don't reload)

Then I bought a box of 220 grain Remington Core-Locks for $13. WOW!!! My 100 yard groups are half the size (now 0.5") at half the price! (I read somewhere that the 1-in-10" rifling twist was designed for 220 grain bullets in the .30-40 Krag cartridge.)
With that large exposed lead tip, I'm pretty confident they'll open up at the close ranges that I actually shoot big game. (I used to dream of and plan for making those 300 yard shots, but my average over the last 20 years is actually less than 50 yards.) And with a sectional density of .331, penetration should not be a problem.

Everyone fawns all over the 6.5mm's, because of their extremely long 140-to-160 grain "giant killer" bullets. It would seem that .30 caliber 220 grain slugs would be even better.

Why aren't the 220 grain loads more popular?

[Jamie Young]

Why don't people use 110gr 30/06 bullets for Varmints? I guess I'm weird about that.

The 180gr is the most popular bullet I've seen for the 30/06, but once you get heavier than that it becomes more difficult to shoot things at 300-500yds due to the bullet trajectory. I try and find the heaviest bullet I can shoot without getting too much of a Rainbow trajectory.

[EchoFiveMike]

Most people don't like the recoil. Also people have been told by gun writers that round nosed bullets are obsolete. And to be quite honest, 220's are not really needed for most game animals. Most US citizens go to a bigger gun when they go hunting bigger animals. I like the 220's, don't use them much, but they work very well. S/F...Ken M

[C.R.Sam]

Sierra 180 and 220 have filled my freezer many times.

Sam

[Jamie Young]

What range did you take game C.R.Sam? If I went out for Moose, or Elk, I'd take the 220gr with me. I've reloaded everything from 110gr to 200gr. I think they all have there place for hunting/plinking. Thats the Reason the 30/06 gets My vote for best Rifle Caliber.


Can you plink with a 30/06???

[Art Eatman]

Well, the bigger the critter, the heavier the bullet. Since 180s work well on elk, and few folks go for big bears or meese, the 200s and 220s aren't needed. Why beat up your shoulder if you don't have to?

And so most deer hunters tend toward the 150s.

Your comments about accuracy mean your package works best with the 220s, of course. But at the ranges you mention, accuracy isn't all that important. "Minute of Bambi" is a piece of cake inside of 50 yards.

Over the last 50 years I've loaded about everything that is .308 in diameter, from round lead ball to 220s. 98% of my deer kills have been with some variety of 150--Remington Bronze Point, Hornady, Sierra spitzers and boat-tails.

The length/diameter ratio of the 6.5 140-grain bullets means excellent penetration for that relatively light bullet. Light bullets mean less recoil.

So, to repeat, if a light bullet does the job, why beat on your shoulder?

, Art

[444]

Interesting. I have never tried the 220s, but I have a box of them sitting on my loading bench. I understand your desire to experiment with different bullets, and in this case it looks like you discovered something. I like accuracy, as do most people. Just being able to hit a deer is setting your sights pretty low. Rainbow trajectories are not a big deal if you know your rifle. And I am like you. I hunt in the wide open Western deserts and I have honestly never taken a shot at a big game animal further than right around 100 yards. Men spent many years learning the trajectories of arrows, muzzleloader balls, cartridges like the 45/70 etc. It takes a little more skill on your part, which is something our society seems to look down upon. Forget the skill, get a rifle that shoots like a laser and an actual laser to measure the range, then open the laptop to get the trajectory so you can make a shot off the hood of your truck. Bah humbug. I agree that 220s are not needed. I have fired a total of four shots into two elk with 180s out of a .30-06 and all four shots zipped right through both sides with nice expansion. However, 220s certainly wouldn't hurt anything. I admire your desire to improve you set up and the fact that you are out there getting better with your rifle.

[BigG]

I think you're right on in your assessment Bluridgdav.

People also like the lighter bullets because they are spitzers and just look neater and more deadly. Didn't you know that looks are a large part of people's buying motivation?

[Badger Arms]

As one who owns, reloads, and shoots the 350 RM, I can understand what everybody is saying about recoil. Man that little Remington kicks. As for 220's, I too have a box sitting on my reloading bench. It holds up all the 180gr bullets I do use. Not overly much difference in recoil between them but 180 will do the trick every time, so why switch? I did live in Alaska for a while, but never had any use for them up there either.

[BRS]

The sectional density of the 220 RN .30 caliber bullets definitely aids in bullet performance downrange, in the same manner as the 140-10 in the 6.5. A mindshift took place back in the 50s and 60s that sent the shooting crowd down the path of lighter and faster projectiles giving better performance, thanks to Jack O'Connor and other writers. Why? The physics of terminal ballistics say that the energy is a function of the square of the velocity. Faster gives you more smack.

All that said, fans of the 30-06, 35 Whelen, 375 Win, 348 Win, who fire heavy bullets at game still saw the game go down, and hard.

The seeds of why the 220 RN is not popular were sown some 50 years ago. Presently, the only downside to the 220 RN in the 30-06 is that it "kills" at both ends, relatively speaking. But sensitivity to felt recoil is a relative and individual issue. Two or three rounds fired during a hunt is nothing compared to a box of twenty fired over the course of 30 or 40 minutes during a load workup. Ouch!

Overall, nothing wrong with slower and heavier.

BRS

[Gewehr98]

but for my 1898 Krag. They're moving slow enough out of that rifle that they don't thump the shooter from recoil too badly.

A question I have is whether the majority of .30-06 rifles out there today have the proper (fast) rate of twist to stabilize the heavyweight 220 gr bullets.

Then there's all the .30-06 autoloaders that are designed around a given bullet weight and associated pressure curve - ie. the Remington 740/7400, Browning BAR, M1 Garand, etc.

[Zorro]

I only use 165, and 200 grain slugs in .30 caliber.

The 220 has no advantages over the 200 grain that I can think of.

[BIGR]

The 220'S are just too big unless you are hunting some very large animals like large bears. The 180 " S seem to do the trick on deer sized game with less recoil. That is almost like using a 5 LB. sledge hammer to drive a thumb tack. When a smaller sized bullet will do the job go for it. Different bullets for different folks.

[Art Eatman]

If Bambi gives up and flops over dead with a 150-grain, how does heavier make him any deader?

Now: By experiment, a hot 180-grain load is startlingly more damaging than a hot 150-grain load on a steel plate at 500 yards. Deeper crater, with splashback the 150- didn't produce. I therefore deduce that penetration in or through something like an elk would be better with the 180-grain.

Trouble is, I don't get that many opportunities to hunt elk.

, Art

[Jamie Young]

Thats all I shoot now are the 150gr HPBT. I shoot the IMI 150gr FMJ for plinking. Everyone keeps telling me I should be shooting 180's.

[C.R.Sam]

I've used 220s on deer cause I had em. Same reason I've taken rabbits with em. They work, so does nearly anything else.

Sam

[Art Eatman]

"Danged few things a man cain't fix,
With a few hundred dollars or a thutty-ought-six."

Sam, you ever notice how a 110-grain bullet scatter rabbit pieces farther?

, Art

[Southla1]

Funny thing about the difference that I have noticed between the 180RN and the 150/165 Spitzers. Lots of guys I hunt with use either the .308 or the 30-06. The main reason for this is that they work at the Louisiana State Penitentary at Angola. The state uses both .308 and 30-06 and the ammo the state buys is 180RN. Beginning to see the light? Any way its strange to me but 90% of the time no matter where the bullet hit the 180RN will end up under the hide on the "off side" while a 150/165/180 Spitzer will just zip right on through. Even with the same weights as in 180/180 a RN would not exit and the spitzer will. Same weight deer and hit in the same location. Had one friend that shot the 220 RN because he "acquired" a couple of boxes ............. they killed just as dead as anyother ought six bullet. He was a big man and said the recoil was "there" but not too bad. He was shooting a Rem 742 auto..........that gas operation MAY have softened the recoil some.

[El Rojo]

I use Hornady 110 gr. V-max in my .308 Winchester. My current loads spit them out at about 3000 FPS. Imagine what they could do coming out of a .30-06?

I have 180 gr. Sierra Spitzer Boattails in my .30-06 right now. I have yet to get a deer with them. Maybe this next year.

[Jamie Young]

I believe My 110gr reloads are over 3300fps. I only loaded a few up just to see what kind of recoil it had. Its ridiculously light for a 30/06.

[Art Eatman]

For decades the factories claimed 3,480 ft/sec for the 110-grain '06 load, from a 26" barrel.

The Sierra Spitzer bullets have a bit thicker jacket than the boat-tails, particularly in the 150- and 165-grain weights. I've had the 150-grain SPBTs blow up at close range. I wouldn't expect this with either shape in the 180-grain.

For a close-range varmint load, swage the .32-20 80-grain flat-nose down to .308 and load max. It's very much like a tiny hand-grenade.

Art

[ltcboy]

I just loaded 20 220grn RN over 57 grains of H4831. These will hopefully knock the living -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- out of a feral hog and stop it in its tracks next week. I will be shooting these out of a Marlin XL7 3006 with a 24" 1:10 twist barrel. I dont look forward to sighting these in.

[jmr40]

A 14 year old thread bought back to life. But since we're here.

Used on the largest animals on the planet 220 gr RN at 30-06 speeds has proven to be at least as effective as rounds such as 338 WM and 35Whelen. At least at close range.

The problem is that at ranges greater than about 100 yards they shed speed and energy so fast that good 180, even 165 gr bullets out perform them. Unless you need to stop a big bear of moose up close in self defense they are a handicap that isn't necessary.

[Stats Shooter]

It's because the 220 gr round nose is ballistically inferior to the 200 grain or 180 grain bullets, and the velocity loss moves the round to begin behavior less like a magnum. I have a .300 win mag with a 24" ER Shaw stainless steel barrel, savage 110 action and rifle basic trigger in a McMillan stock and Nikon Monarch Gold on top 4x16x50.

For elk I use 180 grain nosler Accubonds, 81 grains of H1000, CCi - 250 primers, and Remmington cases. Clover leaf groups at 200 yards. BC of the accubond at 180 gr is .507. 3115 fps. that load took a 4x5 bull at 476 yards DRT. I have taken deer and hogs with it too, on a pig that load will blow out both shoulders on a shoulder shot (I know that for sure )and would send a moose to the promised land at 500 yards.

I have a 200 grain load using nosler Accubonds and H1000 also but the muzzle velocity drops to 2984 and recoil increases noticeable.

If you want to shoot 220+ grain pills, you should move up to a .338. where you can keep the flatter trajectory of a magnum with heavier bullets.....

[ThomasT]

I guess it is a rite of passage for a new guy to raise a long dead thread. But I suppose this close to Halloween raising the dead is OK.

I didn't know it was that hard to kill pigs. A buddy killed one with a Ruger Single Six with a 22 between the eyes. There is a video on youtube of a hunter killing one with an air rifle and one of the lightweight alloy pellets. With todays excellent bullet choices I don't know why a 220 gr bullet would be needed. A common Nosler partition should do the job in about any weight you care to use.