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April 26, 2010, 05:00 PM | #51 |
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We all have our own morals, values and understandings of our local laws. I would never try and tell someone what they should or should not do when faced with danger. I can only share with you what I feel I would do.
I have carried a firearm for a very long time. I do so to allow myself the chance to defend against sudden life threatening danger that I can not otherwise avoid. It is not my intention to stand between two fighting men, chase a purse snatcher or investigate odd happenings in dark alleys. This is not to say that I will not help a fellow citizen. I am willing to help defend others but only in the most dire of sitations where the threat to life is (right here and right now). Just as I am willing in help a fellow citizen, I certainly have a willingness to help a Officer who is down. Obviously the dynamic is much different and just exactly when and how to go about doing so would have to be determined in the moment.
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April 27, 2010, 02:54 PM | #52 |
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Here in Omaha just yesturday a guy was in a walgreens when 2 guys came in wearint hoods one had a shotgun, the guy was CCW he shot the armed one dead the other was arrested later. Maybe these criminals will get a little scared and stop their bad behavior.
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April 28, 2010, 09:50 AM | #53 |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_dying_and_ignored
Here's one where someone intervened (H2H) in a knife fight and guess what - didn't come out so well. Even if he wasn't left to die - he still might have gone on before help arrived. So, it circles around - that before you say - you can't live with yourself, if you didn't help - you can't live with yourself if you are dead. Thus, you need to consider this. Decide your priorities.
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May 12, 2010, 11:44 PM | #54 |
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What would you do had you not been armed? Would you feel the same urgency to get involved?
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May 13, 2010, 03:57 PM | #55 |
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7MM... Thanks for the Kudos. And in all honesty.. It was not only my pleasure to serve on that capacity. It was my honor to serve in that capacity. I thank the every day citizen for their trust in me, and Pray that I served them well...
Once again... If an officer needs help, I would expect the average person to help them. As I see it helping an officer in need is the duty of every citizen. I wouldnt expect a civilian to put themself in harms way... But a phone call to 911 or offering some first aid... Maybe I'm just too old fashion... I'm not of the ME!!! generation. I still believe that people should do the right thing.... Because it's the right thing. And I have gone completely off subject. Sorry. Glenn |
May 13, 2010, 04:34 PM | #56 | |
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Quote:
Why would you even think about approaching a cop with a gun in your hand so you can "keep them at bay"? I'm concerned about you--hopefully it's just inexperience. AND QUIT LEAVING YOUR GUN IN THE DANG CAR when you go in the store. (unless state law requires you honor the posted sign). Just my thoughts on the matter. Last edited by Nnobby45; May 13, 2010 at 04:42 PM. |
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May 21, 2010, 03:56 AM | #57 |
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Be a "good witness"....
In that type event, I'd wait and see what the male subjects said or did before I'd act. If anything, I'd get the store manager or if on duty, a store security guard. In my urban area sworn LE officers and contract security guards are more common in strip malls/chain supermarkets. I would maybe call the local LE agency's non emergency # if the males were just standing or watching the traffic stop/field interview but acting shady. I would NOT engage either the police officer or the intoxicated males at all. The cop has enough to deal with and you do not need to give the drunk guys a chance to snatch your loaded weapon.
Remember; safety=distance. As a armed security officer and former MP I can tell you many "concerned citizens" have stumbled into highly volitile events and put cops/bystanders/security guards at more risk. If I were a police or sheriff's dept supervisor and a citizen later told me why he called the office or reported an event like the post, I would fully understand it and inform the citizen that they did the smart thing. Clyde ps: About 4/5 years ago I read of a small town police officer in a deserted strip mall parking lot who was shot with a shotgun by an unknown subject. The young cop was working on his reports/laptop and wasn't being alert. His LE vehicle was in the middle of the wide open parking lot. The incident was in the suburbs of Detroit MI. The recent WA shooting of 4 uniformed police officers by a violent thug is another good example of LEOs keeping a keen eye while on & off duty. |
May 21, 2010, 11:17 AM | #58 | |
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http://www.policeone.com/health-fitn...ne-who-you-are
This an excellent read about the mind state of an LEO. The question is whether it fits you as a nonLEO. Quote:
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May 21, 2010, 11:42 AM | #59 | |
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As for myself I am not LE so therefor I do not fit with my non-LE mindset. I am willing to pay the ultimate price with regards to my family and self in trying to keep us safe and secure. Hopefully that day never comes.
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May 21, 2010, 01:19 PM | #60 |
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I was born to serve this nation in either the military, which I did for 21 years before being forced to medically retire, or on a police force somewhere. To my great dismay and severe frustration, the injuries I received during my last tour in Iraq prevent me from doing either one.
It is my natural nature to protect those who cannot or, will not, protect themselves, serve the public and when I die, I want it to be said that I was a man of God, a great family man, a man who would defend his country to the death, a man of great character, respect, honesty and commitment. God, Family, Country. I have lived my life by those statements. I take a conversation like this very seriously. If I am in a position to help my fellow man, I will do so without regard for myself. If it would endanger my family, I would remain uninvolved until the threat/dire situation was gone, then offer any assistance I could. I personally know my capabilities and have had extensive CQB training. I wasn't a door kicker in the Army, I was a UH-60 mechanic/crew chief. However, I served for the better part of a decade in an aviation group that worked with America's Elite Forces and Agencies. I only left that organization due to the burden it placed on my family. During my tenure there, I was blessed and highly motivated to being trained by some very good men from some fantastic organizations in CQB tactics and techniques. I did not kick in doors and run and gun on missions. On mission, I did my aviation job. I got to experience some tremendously dangerous and life threatening situations as well as numerous, intensively brutal training scenarios. I had a friggin BLAST my whole time there. The reason I say I've fired more rounds than most people will ever fire in their life is due to the weapon I had on my window sill. The fantastic M134 Mini-gun. If I saw an officer in a gun fight with five gang members, I would attempt to let the officer know I was there to back him up. Simply approaching the fight from a different direction that shores up an officers left or right flank will inform the officer I am there to help as an armed citizen. I would attempt to do so in a fashion that would let the officer know I wasn't a threat, but an unexpected asset for his use and direction. If that situation weren't possible, to relatively safely let the officer know I was on his/her side, I wouldn't enter the situation until I could do so with a high degree of assurance the officer wouldn't perceive me as a threat or I wouldn't force his attention to me during a critical point in his battle. If I'm in a store with my CCW and thugs come in to rob the place, I will do whatever I could to prevent harm to others. If that required my drawing my weapon and firing on the criminals, I would certainly do so without hesitation. However, the situation may not require it. I'd rather just let the criminals steal what they wanted and depart with no shots being fired than possibly take a run of the mill armed robbery without active violence to the next level by my introducing my gunfire into the situation. There are so many variables to take into account for any given situation, it's something that's very difficult to cover completely or even well. Having said that though, I do believe my intent should be clear to my fellow forum members. |
May 23, 2010, 06:27 PM | #61 |
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One of the scarriest things I have ever heard in my life is a police officer yelling for help. Once when I was a senior in highschool I heard this first hand. Without a bit of hesitation I helped him. It was a local PD officer that was responding to a call of a wierdo in the parking lot. The wierdo was a very large guy. The cop went up to talk to him, and then the guy grabbed the cop and slammed him to the ground very hard. He had a full straddle on the cop pummeling his face. I put Mr. Wierdo in a choke hold from behind, and locked my legs around him, then leaned back. Mr. Wierdo went limp. The cop made it out from under him, and cuffed him. It took 4 very large men to get that guy into a van. He had to weigh at least 280. The cop thanked me. I filled out a statement. Then the other cops thanked me. The officer that was being pummeled went to the local ER with a broken nose, a shiner that covered both eyes, two broken teeth, and a mild concussion.
I will help a cop if they call out for someone to help them. The other one I know was the tape of Texas DPS officer that was overpowered by 3 men on a traffic stop. They managed to get his gun, and they killed him with it. His screams for help will make the hair on your neck stand on end.
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May 24, 2010, 05:34 PM | #62 | |
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May 24, 2010, 05:48 PM | #63 |
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Agreed.
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May 24, 2010, 06:01 PM | #64 |
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If this starts to cycle back to the same old - I think we are probably done.
Saying its our duty vs. the risk - been there, done that in every discussion of the issue. Anything new or it's time to bring down the curtain?
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May 24, 2010, 07:58 PM | #65 |
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I think this particular horse has been well beaten.
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May 25, 2010, 04:48 PM | #66 |
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I agree.
Thus, closed - thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Glenn
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