.357 for bear protection?

[shafter]

It will be fine since the odds of getting attacked by a Black Bear are less than the odds of being struck by lightning

Quite true, but if he does attack the odds of stopping it with a 357 are pretty low. We're talking a very small fast moving target.

[Onward Allusion]

.357 for bear protection?
. . .family trips to the smokies. Im really liking the ruger blackhawk convertible in. 357/9mm.. . . i run into smokey the bears angry brother tokey the man eating bear..will a nice. 357 self defense round like the hornady critical defense load stop a angry bear?

Are you planning on going out to the backcountry? If not, then it's pretty unlikely to run across 'em. Bear spray is your best option. If you're gonna carry, do it for the 2 legged angry predators . . . Also, I wouldn't carry a single action.

[Sequins]

If you're truly loading for bear you want a large, large caliber. .454, .460, .480, .500 are the only truly adequate handgun cartridges. A bear is going to absorb a whole cylinder of .357 / .44 unless you hit the nervous system, and I truly believe spray and other deterrents will meet or exceed other options in effectiveness. A CNS hit on a charging bear should be considered unlikely except for the most talented and experienced hunters.

[Boncrayon]

Yep! Especially in the Mountains of Arizona. Some areas require you to carry nothing less than a .357 sidearm with your rifle in hand!

[Smbsvcs]

DaleA,
Sorry for resurrecting a year-old thread.


It's spring time
That means more folks from down in the Lower 48 are going to come up here to enjoy the outdoors

Every year, people injure bear with their 357's, 40's and even 9mm's

one year we had a group use their pepper spray on a charging bear
.....full in the face of the bruin as per instructions
....didn't stop the mauling
then someone decided to use his 357 with Buffalo Bore loads
....stopped in the shoulder blade
....got him mauled also

In the end
The city folk go back home
The bear has to be put down
Sometimes I wish it was the other way around
I get irritated just thinking about it


Funny how this thread is filled with 'I think'
Very few with real-world experience
Lots of opinions that will get people or bruins killed



PS:
An old counter-sniper maxim: just because you can't see him don't mean he aint there

[DaleA]

Welcome back Smbsvcs! I hope you stick around and enjoy this site. There's lots of good information here and the discussions are generally polite and entertaining---just don't compliment the staff for the good job they do or they'll shut down the thread.

It's always a judgment call as to whether to add to an existing thread or start a new one. Threads WAY older than a year have been brought back to life and then sometimes shut down by the staff for being too old. So you make your posts, you take your chances.

No problem for me personally as it let me repost my tired old bear stories and links again.

Bears are one of the perennial topics that get a LOT of attention with the other one being snakes.

Once again hope you stick around.

[44 AMP]

We often shut down zombie threads, mostly because the original question is answered, or no longer relevant. Sometimes we don't, when there is still good and still relevant information in them.

We do talk bears & handguns, often. Many are convinced that they need the biggest handcannons on the planet to be safe from bears. The don't, but there's no convincing them of that, or not easily.

The .357 (Buffalo Bore or something else) is in the class where it can work, but only will work with precisely correct shot placement.

And that is why it will likely fail in most people's hands. Most simply do not have the skill (and fortitude) to put the bullet precisely where it needs to go, under the stress of an attack.

"Karamojo" Bell killed a great many elephants with 6.5, 7mm and .303 British caliber rifles. Insanely light calibers for elephant by most standards, but in the hands of a true expert, quite enough to get the job done.

The point is that it is the shooter, more than the round itself that decides success or failure.

[Shenna9220]

So Buffalo Bore has a Hard cast Keith 130 gn round for the .327 Federal

HEAVY 327 FEDERAL Ammo
130 gr. Hard Cast Keith (1300fps)

"This 130gr., hard cast, 327 Federal load, is the direct result of customer request for such a load. It is designed primarily as an 'outdoor' load as it penetrates deeply and does not expand. It will perforate a large bear's skull and will also serve well for any application that requires very deep penetration. This load utilizes flash suppressed powder, so the shooter will not be blinded by his own gunfire should he need to fire in low light situations."

I currently carry a Smith 657 when going in and out of the woods cause we have a lot of Black Bear in Florida. I have 3 or 4 close encounters a year (None bad yet). I'm thinking of carrying my new SP101 instead of the Smith this year. Florida thinks you should use sticks and rocks to fend off an attack so since they have to be chewing on me before I can shoot, I think the Ruger would be a little more manageable. Thoughts?

[Cosmodragoon]

So Buffalo Bore has a Hard cast Keith 130 gn round for the .327 Federal

HEAVY 327 FEDERAL Ammo
130 gr. Hard Cast Keith (1300fps)

"This 130gr., hard cast, 327 Federal load, is the direct result of customer request for such a load. It is designed primarily as an 'outdoor' load as it penetrates deeply and does not expand. It will perforate a large bear's skull and will also serve well for any application that requires very deep penetration..."

That sounds about right. Remember what the .327 is: a .32-caliber super magnum. It gives you a fast bullet with good sectional density. These heavy hard-cast Keith bullets will take excellent advantage of that and should work as promised. Of course, the 1291 fps value they give is for the 3" SP101. They don't give a value for the 4.2" model but you should be exceeding expectations.

[sarge83]

I have carried a Colt King Cobra or a S&W Model 19 .357 for years in black bear country with hunting loads and felt safe. With the proper load the .357 is fine, plus it works for 2 legged critters you might encounter, especially hiking or camping. Were I going to the Smokey Mountains or the Appalachian trail the .357 would be a must.

I ran across a 1970's Virginian Dragoon in .44 magnum at my local gun/pawn establishment for the right price, it wasn't pristine, but was not a dog either so now it is my carry gun when I am outdoors.

[Deaf Smith]

So Buffalo Bore has a Hard cast Keith 130 gn round for the .327 Federal

Well there are some pretty ferocious gerbils in them thar woods.

Deaf

[j102]

Originally Posted by j102

I always carry a handgun as a sidearm while hunting, but like I have said before, bear spray is a good thing to have.

Since someone reopened this thread, let me rephrase what I said a year ago: bear spray and a 10mm Glock.

[wild cat mccane]

Data sure does show bear spray is more effective. Sorry you weren't aware of it?

"since 1992, 50% of all people that attempt to protect themselves from grizzly bear attacks with a firearm were injured. Those that used pepper spray “escaped injury most of the time”, and if they were attacked, their injuries were less serious and the attacks did not last as long."

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/...ar%20spray.pdf

http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...er_sprays.html

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and...9bb2963f4.html

[SansSouci]

wild cat mccane,

You must approach "data" suspiciously because it often falls far short of scientific. It is next to impossible to eliminate all confounding factors leaving only pepper spray as causal of stopping a bear's charge. Hence, bear spray data is inferential and anecdotal.

I know of no research in which wild bears in their natural habitat were test subjects. (It would probably be illegal for researchers to use wild bears as test subjects.) Such a scientific experiment would be impossible to perform. How would researches find control and test variables? They can't, which is why "research" was performed on captive bears. The danger was in extrapolating results on a tiny population of captive bears to the general population in their habitat. At best, such data extrapolations were guesses.

I'm good with anyone using bear spray to defend their lives. However, I'm very well aware of pepper spray limitations. For me, those potentially life-ending limitations preclude it as a viable method of protecting my kids' lives.

My advice is to always go with avoidance. But if that's not possible, if a bear decides it wants to kill you, you're gonna have to figure out the best method of saving your life.

Finally, the stat of humans have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being killed by a bear is fraudulent. It would be legitimate were it to confine the population of people who actually venture into bear habitat. It's a no brainer that a city dweller who never ventures into bear habitat will never be harmed b a bear. But during trout season, my kids and I are routinely in the Eastern Sierra where black bears grow HUGE. Worse, because of the throngs of neophyte campers, they have little fear of people. So far our primary strategy of avoidance has worked for us. No trout is worth endangering anyone's life. If a bear is in the best fishing hole in the Eastern Sierra, he gets it and we'll leave. If a bear wanders into our fishing hole, the bear gets it and we'll leave. However, it's the chance encounter where we cross paths with a bear, we're smelling of trout, the bear is on a hunger prowl, and it thinks we're food. Were such an encounter to occur, I'd have to protect my kids. If possible, I'd give such a bear a chance to change its mind. But if it charges, it will have made my decision for me.

I'll leave you with this sage advice given to me by a game warden: were you to cross paths with a mountain lion or bear, whether you live or die is up to it, not you. Hence, the wise use the BEST method of saving their lives.

[SansSouci]

wild cat,

Do you know of an actual scientific experiment of bear spray? If you could provide such a link, it would be valuable. I can't find a single one, probably because such a scientific experiment of pepper spray on wild bears in their natural habitat has never occurred.

[wild cat mccane]

I'm a statistician by profession.

If you can't do blind studies due to efficacy, you certainly can look to raw numbers to make inferences.

Every attack by a wild animal gets recorded. I am not sure if people know this, but in most cities, if a dog attacks you and you know the dog/owner, you are legally required to report the dog/owner or face jail. I bring this up to show that no one is getting injured by a bear, going to the ER, and the event is going unrecorded as a bear attack.

So when the FWS says more people survive and attacks are shorter with bear spray, that is a recorded data point fact.

Additionally, since 3 people die from bear attacks a year and almost as few are hurt by bears (https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/injuries.htm), I would suggest people telling folk lore about guns killing attacking bears should back their posts up with links from the news. Being so rare, I doubt one story would go unreported on a local station.

[wild cat mccane]

It appears a few did not read my link and continue to say bear spray hasn't been tested on wild bears.

I'll repost my link from above about the wild bear which was test patient 0 for the creation of bear spray. He was loving called Growly.
http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...er_sprays.html

[Radny97]

I thought this thread was about black bear, not grizzly bear. The two are VERY different. I believe the question was whether a 357 mag would be sufficient to deal with a black bear in the smokies, and the majority response was yes with several also recommending bear spray as well. Why not have both?
If you want to talk Grizzlies, start another thread.

[SansSouci]

Radny97,

Threads should be about fleshing out knowledge.

According to National Geographic, a male black bear in heat is the most dangerous land animal in North America.

I agree. A .357 Mag with the right bullet is sufficient to break a black bear's shoulders.

BTW, a 450 pound black bear in the Eastern Sierra is common. They grow even larger in the Angeles National Forest.

[SansSouci]

Wild Cat,

Your link was not to a scientific journal. Growly was in captivity. I'd suspect that it'd be illegal to use wild animals as test subjects.

[wild cat mccane]

Growly, the wild bear, was put down at the university when it was discovered "bear spray" was being tested on him.

That is as scientific as it will get. However, there is data backing that. FWS link, for the 3rd time.

Data from BYU shows it has a higher rate of success than being reported by the FWS. http://www.outsideonline.com/1899301...-charging-bear

[wild cat mccane]

Book by the foremost data researcher on bear attacks:

http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-C.../dp/158574557X

(spray proponent)

[stagpanther]

According to National Geographic, a male black bear in heat is the most dangerous land animal in North America.

He's going to need to use one of those transgender bathrooms. : )

Black bears can get very big in Maine too. I've been deep in woods hunting and come across huge prints and have wondered about my chances should I become the hunted. Recently a store owner who has an all-steel dumpster told me a big one visited it and jumped up on it trying to figure out a way in and the weight partially collapsed the top.

[shafter]

The point is that it is the shooter, more than the round itself that decides success or failure.

True, and if you need to come here and ask a week before your wilderness outing then my bet is on the fact that you ain't the shooter you're going need to be to.

[Orion61]

"Funny how this thread is filled with 'I think'
Very few with real-world experience
Lots of opinions that will get people or bruins killed"

I camp in the Mountains and I do everything I can to make sure I don't get into bear trouble, I don't shower or do the clothes I wear in Girly smelling soap. The less you smell the least likely a bear will chase the smell.
I ALWAYS store ALL foodstuff in a bag hung from a tree at least 50' away from the Campsite. I try to bring as little of the City with me as possible.
I NEVER keep any food or snacky things in my tent, that is inviting a Midnight visit.
I remember the story of Louis and Clark and company encountering a Bear, it took over 20 shots from their rifles using magnum powder charges to stop it.
IF I weer to see a Cub, I would make haste the opposite way of them, they are not cute they are sure death. I remember I am in THEIR back yard so I am the one in a place I don't belong.
I have encountered Black bears and found they were as scared of me as I was of them, Slowly backing away worked both times. I never even THOUGHT of pulling my gun.
Great posts about knowing where to shoot, most rounds would bounce off their skull. I fear more of 2 legged predators than 4.
Forethought planning (yes there are times of the year that are worse for bears) making sure you are safe is best. BTW I carry a .44 MAG. and have little doubt I will never use it.
Plan Safe, Think Safe, and you will be Safe..