AR vs. AR vs. AR

[TXAZ]

AR vs. AR vs. AR

Does anyone out there have a link or summary of objective pluses and minuses for AR's .223/5.56 by manufacturer?
I'm thinking about getting one but haven't seen a good comparison.
I've fired a S&W M&P and Colt, but don't know how the rest compare.

Thanks in advance.
Edited: I'm not interested in building the first one. $ budget is $1-2k.

[mxsailor803]

Have you ever considered building one? Thats how I got my first AR and you take your time as needed to the funds for parts. In the end, its a rifle that you wanted and didn't have to swap parts around that you didn't like originally. Just a thought.

[Dragline45]

I agree with mxsailor for all the reasons he listed, building an AR is a far better option than buying some assembly line rifle.

[HKFan9]

As much as I like building AR's... I generally don't tell people to build their first one, the folks at BCM or DD usually do a much nicer job.

Building one is fun, and learning is most of the fun, however it DOES require some (not many) special tools to do a good job, sure you don't NEED them, but they do help.

Right now you can build a budget plinker AR for $500, or you can go balls to the walls and spent upwards of $3000 on a high end custom, if not more.

Generally for the first AR I tell people to pick a solidly produced one, learn the firearm and the in's and outs, then tackle the building..... then you will be addicted and it is a never ending battle.

[Dragline45]

As much as I like building AR's... I generally don't tell people to build their first one, the folks at BCM or DD usually do a much nicer job.

I am building my first one right now, not just my first build but it will be my first AR. I bought the upper already assembled from BCM though, like you said I trust them to do a better job than I ever could have, plus I didn't feel like tooling up. Besides that though installing the LPK which is all there really is was extremely easy.

[HKFan9]

Oh don't get me wrong I don't tell people not to, they are very easy guns to put together, and the LPK you rarely need any REAL tools for, if you have a tight fit it may help to have some punches, and a nice roll pin punch (I cheat and use taped up pliers for the roll pins shhhhh). The Upper, even tho less parts, obviously requires a solid vice, torque wrenches, ect.

BCM uppers, specially with the sale going on where they give you their $170 BCG for ordering an upper, are amazing.

The issue I have with new comers to the AR platform building is IF (rarely) there are issues, sometimes it is harder to diagnose not being used to the system, but that is why this forum and others exist, and I can't fault anyone for diving head on in

[bledsoeG19]

I'm building my first one for the exact same reasons listed above. You get the exact gun you want without wasting money on parts you don't like.

So far I have a palmetto state armory lower with a psa lower parts kit that included an ALG defense trigger, magpul moe grip and ctr stock. Also installed magpul's BAD lever. I did cheat and try it out with a buddy's upper. That trigger is sweet.

Next it going to be a psa barreled upper 16" flat top with a full free float rail. It's going to be everything I want, nothing I don't. Haven't decided on an optic yet.

[Glockstar .40]

I'd say with your budget you have a good selection of choices. I really like daniel defense they make a great and light rifle. They can be had for 15-1,800. There are other great manufactures in that price range

[Brotherbadger]

Honestly, if you are going to be spending between $1,000-$2,000, you really won't find that much of a difference. You will be buying a high quality rifle. As for recommendations: BCM, LaRue, Daniel Defense, Colt, S&W are all going to be very good, very solid rifles. The question needs to be, what are you going to do with it? Is this going to be for hunting, for plinking, Home Defense, ect? What you want to do with it will determine what you should get.

[highpower3006]

Spend 1/2 to 2/3 the money and buy a PSA. It will do what ever you need it to do. The gear snobs will say that you have to spend large amounts of $ to get a good rifle, but in reality, even the less expensive AR's are pretty darn good guns and PSA sells a quality product.

Spend the rest of the money on ammo.

[Grizz12]

I just got the SR556 from ruger but haven't shot it yet. I got it because its piston operated and thats what I was looking for

[mardanlin]

I have a DPMS AR that is just as good as anything I've ever shot. Honestly, unless you're going with an all nickel boron construction or something crazy like that, they're really all the same.

M4 feed ramps might be something you want. I couldn't live without a shell deflector or forward assist. The dust cover isn't a deal breaker for me either. What features are you concerned about being different between manufacturers? Twist rate, trigger, free float?

Unless you're thinking about going piston driven, then you've opened a whole different can of worms.

[tirod]

There is a Chart out there that compares AR15's by their adherence to milspec features and how much they emulate the M4.

The other side of that is milspec is the lowest acceptable government standard of quality, and the M4 isn't all that.

Which is best? comes up a lot, hundreds of threads a year, and over the last five years the names move up and down the list - or even fall off. But that is if someone is concerned about Brand, rather than what features they want on the gun.

Caliber first - not everyone thinks 5.56 is the end all be all AR15 cartridge. Determine what your target and ranges are going to be - plinking, hunting, how far out? A rifle suited to poking holes in paper and dirt may not be the optimal one for knocking down 150 pound game animals at 350 yards. What range and target the rifle will be predominantly used for is a lot more important that buyers make of it - and usually why they later sell it. It didn't fit the job they had in mind.

From there, with the ballistic situation clarified, it then goes to what barrel length is appropriate to deliver the energy at the specified maximum distance. That determines what gas length port, which determines what handguard length, and what you are shooting will specify what kind of handguard.

As these things fall into place, the gun is built by specifications, and you shop accordingly to find the best price for what you want - feature oriented. And that will eliminate Brands as the focus, as it should. Otherwise, these threads tend to deteriorate into shouting matches and the biggest number of Brand fans win.

It can be said in the other direction - there are certain Brands to avoid, and certain features that are basically dress up with high expense and almost zero returns. What is interesting is that there are plenty who recommend their favorites, for what they feel are good reasons. Sorting that out gets tiresome when the actual rifle you need for the job may not even include them.

Go for the range and target specification, drill it down to the few makes which offer that configuration, and then you get recommendations based on actual owner experiences about how they perform. Otherwise, it's just a lot of noise which doesn't settle anything.

[Glockstar .40]

I have a DPMS AR that is just as good as anything I've ever shot. Honestly, unless you're going with an all nickel boron construction or something crazy like that, they're really all the same.

That gets said a whole lot and generally by people with lower tier AR's. ( I mean no offense about that but it's true). if by the same you mean the basic operation and will hold up pretty well for what most of us use it for then yes I agree. But the attention to detail and the fit and finish between upper and lower tier AR's are different. For example my Daniel Defense with optics, vfg, flashlight with mount, and sling weighs the same as my brothers DPMS that is stock. Weight might not matter to you, but to some people it does. But dont say that are all the same just because they shoot the same round.

[Dragline45]

if you have a tight fit it may help to have some punches, and a nice roll pin punch (I cheat and use taped up pliers for the roll pins shhhhh).

The roll pin for the bolt catch was such a tight fit that the pliers and tape thing didn't work for me, literally the tightest roll pin I have ever installed. I ended up using a punch but put a small knick right in front of the hole for the bolt catch pin. I am really not too ****** though, a little touch up paint and you can barely tell. I only payed $75 for the lower and it's an Anderson, was planning on swapping it out with a Spikes lower down the line anyway. Next time I am either going to buy one of those bolt catch punches from Brownells or use a C-clamp.

BCM uppers, specially with the sale going on where they give you their $170 BCG for ordering an upper, are amazing.

Don't rub it in, I missed that special by 2 weeks when I ordered my upper. I even emailed them and asked if they could extend the offer to me but they wouldn't.

[HKFan9]

Meh building scars just add more character

Also since you missed the sale... sounds like a good excuse to just order another upper in my book.


As for people saying to save money and buy a PSA or DPMS... Yes and no. Like Tirod said all of our demands are different. Do not get me wrong.. I have owned Stags, PSA's, DPMS, SW blah blah blah before.

They are not in the same class as DD, BCM, Larue among others... which is why they don't cost as much.

To the new comers they might look feel and operate similar.. but get down to the nitty gritty, they are constructed differently, to different specs, by different processes, and sometimes different materials. Now, I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE BAD GUNS. I love Stag as a company... great product, great price, stands strongly for the 2A fight, and their parent company supplies TONS of others. I am simply stating there ARE differences, and the age old rule applies, you pay for what you get.

Now, 99% of people buying AR's right now, will never run them long enough, hard enough, or fast enough to actually be able to NEED the differences, but for a rifle I am going to depend my life to, I'd rather spend the extra coin and take some variables away.

Prime example of what I am saying is most guys who come in who look at the SW MP Sport and say ok.. its cheaper because its non chrome lined, and doesn't have a forward assist. Ok great you are somewhat informed, you are one step ahead, but also the barrel is made of softer steel, most people over look that information.

Really what I am getting at is just do some reading around and research, and KNOW what you are buying.. whether good bad or ugly... as long as you knew what you were spending your money on, and you are happy with that purchase, nothing else matters.

[Adamantium]

My advice is save your money and buy a PSA. The benefit of spending more money on an AR is dubious unless you have a specialized task at hand for the gun. In the AR world if you aren't looking for extreme accuracy then it isn't what you shoot it is what you hit. IE shooter skill is far more important than cutting edge features. PSA as a whole offers a durable and reliable gun for a good price.

BCM is also very good and has a much more steady line of models. If your heart falls in love with something specific then BCM will also probably be the better option as PSA has a wildly fluctuating inventory.

If you really want to save money and can honestly tell yourself that your gun won't see heavy round counts then an M&P sport or Del-ton sport is a good option. When it comes to cheaper ARs, proper assembly is far more important than conforming to Mil-spec.

That gets said a whole lot and generally by people with lower tier AR's. ( I mean no offense about that but it's true). if by the same you mean the basic operation and will hold up pretty well for what most of us use it for then yes I agree. But the attention to detail and the fit and finish between upper and lower tier AR's are different. For example my Daniel Defense with optics, vfg, flashlight with mount, and sling weighs the same as my brothers DPMS that is stock. Weight might not matter to you, but to some people it does. But dont say that are all the same just because they shoot the same round.

That is because when comparing equipment on the WWW the difference appears obvious with the specs making one gun better than the other. In real life however a gun just shoots bullets and there is no point in arguing with someone who has a cheap AR that runs really well.

[Tomac]

The Colt LE6920 is a good baseline to compare price/features w/other AR's you might be considering. You can currently get a 6920 for $900 w/mags, softcase & jacket: http://www.cdnnsports.com/6920-16-fl...l#.U-39COl0wcE , that leaves you more $$$ for extra mags, ammo, sling, optic, light, training class, etc.
Tomac

[mardanlin]

I have a Daniel defense build as well, and that's why I said there is no difference. As someone else said, the barrel length and twist rate are the biggest factors. Even a cheap DPMS fits together just as snug as my $2000 DD.

My DPMS does just as good grouping (sub MOA) as my DD. It's no heavier, the only thing that truly makes ARs different is being piston driven. I don't doubt some cork sniffers will disagree with me trying to justify a high price tag to themselves, but let me put it this way :

If a cheap rifle goes bang every time and is just as accurate and lightweight as the expensive models, how is it inferior? You remind me of tthe guys that buy Gibson Les Pauls insisting that they're better than other guitars simply because of the name.

PS I own lots of Gibsons but I know why I'm buying them, and it isn't bbecause a name makes them better than others. Same is true for guns, cars, hell everything! Sorry if you're questioning your $2000 plinking rife now.

[mardanlin]

If you want a truly better AR then you're going to have to use different materials, namely, nickel boron. Sorry, but Daniel Defenses steel and aluminum is the same as DPMS.

I will say that the cheap models don't have the nice triggers that some upper models do, though. That's the only reason I still have my DD is because the pull is so pure and smooth, but other than that there are no functional differences between the two.

A rifles quality is measured in results produced, not price paid. I appreciate the finer things in life too, but I appreciate them because I understand that in most cases they are frills that do not add to the functionality of the item but rather the confidence of the user.

[Dirty_Harry]

Sorry, but Daniel Defenses steel and aluminum is the same as DPMS

Is the DPMS barrel hammer forged? Chrome lined? Also, it matters on who assembles the rifle. With a higher end product like the daniel defense I know I am getting a good product.

I am surprised your trigger was good on the DD. Mine was not. It was my only complaint. I swapped it out for a 2 stage Rock river.

Another point to think about, who is your money benefiting? Daniel Defense is owned my Americans. Freedom group (DPMS, Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster) is not.

I completely agree that if your just the average shooter you dont really need more than a DPMS.

[G.barnes]

A lot of lower tier companies also use 6061 instead of 7075 for their receivers. Commercial buffer tubes and bolt that are made out of 8620 instead of 158 and are not tested and inspected. Stag wouldn't offer a mil spec package for 200 dollars more if the base model was already there. People will complain about how much a bcm or dd is then buy an 800 dollar rifle and change the handguard, trigger guard, stock, sights, etc. by the time they're done they've spent more than the bcm or dd. If a couple hundred dollars is a lot of price difference then your going to be in trouble at the range since a 30 round pmag holds about 15 dollars worth of ammo.

[walts]

I think it's a no brainer with the Colt 6920 selling new for less than $900. There are better rifles (DD, Noveske) but the Colt 6920 sets the standard for rifles capable of hard use. For an AR under $1000, I'd only consider BCM or Colt.

Google "AR15 Comparison Chart" for a comparison of the most popular AR15 rifles.

[Glockstar .40]

That is because when comparing equipment on the WWW the difference appears obvious with the specs making one gun better than the other. In real life however a gun just shoots bullets and there is no point in arguing with someone who has a cheap AR that runs really well.

Not arguing with anybody. My brothers DPMS runs very well, but a lot of people say "why pay 2000 just buy a 700 AR. They're the same." Which couldn't be more untrue. Now if you just want a $700 plinker and use for HD go ahead there are a lot of good companies. And just because the differences of specs are unimportant to you doesn't mean they're not important to someone else. Op says they want a good AR for 1000-2000 which tells me he wants something with the specs that come in that price range. not the 700 range.

Why do people buy a $1500 les Baer when they can just buy a $500 RIA? They just shoot the same bullet?

[Glockstar .40]

PS I own lots of Gibsons but I know why I'm buying them, and it isn't bbecause a name makes them better than others. Same is true for guns, cars, hell everything! Sorry if you're questioning your $2000 plinking rife now.

Actually I only paid 1400 for my DD. and it's a GREAT rifle why would I question it? I'd buy and recommend DD any day of the week to anyone.