Crimp die choices?

paknheat · May 11, 2010, 10:40 AM

Going to try a Lee Factory Crimp die for my 9mm. Which one would be the better choice, the taper or roll crimp die?

zxcvbob · May 11, 2010, 11:06 AM

I just use the bullet seating die that came with the set to provide a light taper crimp. Neck tension does most of the holding the bullet in place.

You don't roll crimp rimless cases (unless they have a shoulder to headspace on, like .357 Sig)

jaguarxk120 · May 11, 2010, 11:11 AM

If you check factory ammo you'll find no crimp on it. Why do need to crimp when the factory does not?

rwilson452 · May 11, 2010, 11:12 AM

9mm takes a taper crimp.

ScottRiqui · May 11, 2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

If you check factory ammo you'll find no crimp on it. Why do need to crimp when the factory does not?

I would think that applying a consistent crimp would be one of the ways that handloads can improve upon factory ammo, by providing a more-consistent starting pressure.

jaguarxk120 · May 11, 2010, 01:36 PM

You provide the starting pressure, as your saying, when you resize the case. The case is expanded with the expander plug so the internal size is consistant to the bullet. If you crimp 9mm cases you will start to deform the bullet squashing it to the same exterior dimentions. Case walls are not the same thickness all the way around unless you turn the necks. And this is not done on pistol brass. So now you will have a out of round bullet.

paknheat · May 11, 2010, 07:31 PM

Taper crimp die it is.Thanx Mr.Wilson

riverwalker76 · May 11, 2010, 08:10 PM

I don't think you understand what the Lee Factory Crimp die does!

It doesn't roll or taper crimp your cartridges .... it Factory Crimps it.

**Shane Tuttle** · May 11, 2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

It doesn't roll or taper crimp your cartridges .... it Factory Crimps it.

Then what's the definition of "factory crimp"?

jaguarxk120 · May 11, 2010, 08:20 PM

Tuttle8 I just checked a 1990 WCC45 ACP Match ctg. this is new unfired ammo, I used a 7 1/2 power watchmakers loupe and cannot find anykind of crimp factory or other wise.

Maybe Western/Winchester is not big enough company to use "factory crimps"

riverwalker76 · May 11, 2010, 08:27 PM

Here is a pic of the Lee Factory Crimp Die from Lee's Website .... and Below is what a Lee Factory Crimp is ....

The collet PRESSES the case mouth into the bullet in unison. It creates a firm hold on the bullet without raising pressures. Kind of forms a very tight ring.

Clear as mud?

jaguarxk120 · May 11, 2010, 08:34 PM

Now you have taken a perfectly good bullet a made a piece of scrap lead and gliding metal. You are paying for a bullet maker to give best he can and then you can do better by squashing the heck out of it? I don't see how that is better.

riverwalker76 · May 11, 2010, 08:36 PM

That's your opinion.

However ... there are some on the board who have had very good results with them.

Check out this thread. ...... http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...4&postcount=10

Black Dog · May 11, 2010, 08:41 PM

So does that mean you can dispense with using the taper crimp feature on a .45 ACP seating die if you use the FC die ?

...and if you use the Lee FC die with a .44 Mag. does it remove the seating die roll crimp ?

Not trying to be a Smart A** here but being a new guy I`m really confused by the correct use of the Lee FC Die in conjunction with the crimping features of the Lee ( or other brand ) seating die

Thanks

**Shane Tuttle** · May 11, 2010, 08:53 PM

I can understand the definition of "factory crimp" in the context of rifles, but my Lee FCDs don't provide that type of crimp on pistol ammo. The OP was referring to 9mm.

Sevens · May 11, 2010, 09:27 PM

The linked pictures show a Lee rifle Factory Crimp die, not to be confused with Lee's Carbide Factory Crimp die for handgun rounds.

The handgun FCD does more than the rifle die does and I'm not convinced it's something I ever want to use. Others find that it "helps" their ammo.

Any company that sells their handgun caliber reloading dies in a set of 3 or more dies already has the proper (taper) crimp built in to the bullet seating die. For most of us, this works just fine and nothing else is necessary.

riverwalker76 · May 11, 2010, 09:34 PM

My bad! I didn't read all of the OP's caliber usages. Sorry for the confusion.

Crankylove · May 11, 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

If you check factory ammo you'll find no crimp on it. Why do need to crimp when the factory does not?

I don't crimp to hold the bullet in the case mouth, if the case is properly sized, it will provide all the tension the bullet needs. The only reason I run my cases thru the crimp die is to remove the little bit of flare on the case mouth after seating the bullet.

Some reloaders like the little extra hold the crimp creates, dosen't make it wrong, thats just the way they prefer to do it they do it. Many bench rest shooters I have talked to about thier reloading techniques will apply, and vary the crimp on thier handloads to help with grouping while developing loads............so, it appears it can't be all bad.

jaguarxk120 · May 12, 2010, 07:08 AM

What I don't buy into is the panacea of the factory crimp die. It's not a cure all for everything as people have posted. Some of the posters sound like medicine show barkers selling the elixer of life, cures all ailments and is good for you.

WESHOOT2 · May 12, 2010, 10:55 AM

Handgun: The LEE die still performs a taper crimp, so what's the big deal?

I crimp ALL my ammo using a separate die. Yes, it can add more time.....

zxcvbob · May 12, 2010, 11:43 AM

The Lee factory crimp die for rifle cartridges is entirely different than the one for handgun ctgs. (I reluctantly use a FCD for .357 Magnum when using .358 cast bullets to make sure they will chamber, other than that I don't like them. But I'm pretty old (curmudgeonly) for my age

paknheat · May 13, 2010, 05:37 AM

I am leaning toward a Lee taper crimp die because of feed issues with my Ruger SR9.I have used the Taper crimp die for my Glock29, and it did make a noticeble difference in accuracy as well as feeding reliability.I was curious as to why Lee offered both a roll and taper crimp die for 9mm.

mtnbkr · May 13, 2010, 07:06 AM

Auto Pistol cartridges (9mm, 45acp, etc) get a taper crimp.

Revolver cartridges (38spec, 357mag, 44mag, etc) get a roll crimp.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sics/crimp.cfm

And before someone else says it, the Lee Crimp dies DO NOT RESIZE THE BULLET. I performed a test measuring bullets before and after seating with and without crimping and found the only resizing effect came from merely seating the bullet in a properly sized case.

Chris

wingman · May 13, 2010, 07:49 AM

I use the Lee FCD on all pistol cartridges I load, I prefer to seat and crimp in separate operations,if adjusted properly the FCD does not harm bullets nor does it harm accuracy but IMO it does control set back and provide better feeding in most cases. Like any tool has to be used correctly.

May 11, 2010, 10:40 AM	#1
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	Crimp die choices? Going to try a Lee Factory Crimp die for my 9mm. Which one would be the better choice, the taper or roll crimp die? Last edited by paknheat; May 13, 2010 at 05:33 AM.

May 11, 2010, 11:06 AM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I just use the bullet seating die that came with the set to provide a light taper crimp. Neck tension does most of the holding the bullet in place. You don't roll crimp rimless cases (unless they have a shoulder to headspace on, like .357 Sig) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 11, 2010, 11:12 AM	#4
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	9mm takes a taper crimp. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

May 11, 2010, 08:10 PM	#8
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	I don't think you understand what the Lee Factory Crimp die does! It doesn't roll or taper crimp your cartridges .... it Factory Crimps it. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

May 11, 2010, 08:27 PM	#11
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Here is a pic of the Lee Factory Crimp Die from Lee's Website .... and Below is what a Lee Factory Crimp is .... The collet PRESSES the case mouth into the bullet in unison. It creates a firm hold on the bullet without raising pressures. Kind of forms a very tight ring. Clear as mud? __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.” Last edited by riverwalker76; May 11, 2010 at 08:32 PM.

May 11, 2010, 11:11 AM	#3
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	If you check factory ammo you'll find no crimp on it. Why do need to crimp when the factory does not?

May 11, 2010, 01:36 PM	#6
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	You provide the starting pressure, as your saying, when you resize the case. The case is expanded with the expander plug so the internal size is consistant to the bullet. If you crimp 9mm cases you will start to deform the bullet squashing it to the same exterior dimentions. Case walls are not the same thickness all the way around unless you turn the necks. And this is not done on pistol brass. So now you will have a out of round bullet.

May 11, 2010, 07:31 PM	#7
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	Taper crimp die it is.Thanx Mr.Wilson

May 11, 2010, 08:20 PM	#10
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Tuttle8 I just checked a 1990 WCC45 ACP Match ctg. this is new unfired ammo, I used a 7 1/2 power watchmakers loupe and cannot find anykind of crimp factory or other wise. Maybe Western/Winchester is not big enough company to use "factory crimps"

May 11, 2010, 08:34 PM	#12
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Now you have taken a perfectly good bullet a made a piece of scrap lead and gliding metal. You are paying for a bullet maker to give best he can and then you can do better by squashing the heck out of it? I don't see how that is better.

May 11, 2010, 08:36 PM	#13
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	That's your opinion. However ... there are some on the board who have had very good results with them. Check out this thread. ...... http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...4&postcount=10 __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

May 11, 2010, 08:41 PM	#14
Black Dog Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 23	So does that mean you can dispense with using the taper crimp feature on a .45 ACP seating die if you use the FC die ? ...and if you use the Lee FC die with a .44 Mag. does it remove the seating die roll crimp ? Not trying to be a Smart A** here but being a new guy I`m really confused by the correct use of the Lee FC Die in conjunction with the crimping features of the Lee ( or other brand ) seating die Thanks

May 11, 2010, 08:53 PM	#15
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	I can understand the definition of "factory crimp" in the context of rifles, but my Lee FCDs don't provide that type of crimp on pistol ammo. The OP was referring to 9mm. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

May 11, 2010, 09:27 PM	#16
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	The linked pictures show a Lee rifle Factory Crimp die, not to be confused with Lee's Carbide Factory Crimp die for handgun rounds. The handgun FCD does more than the rifle die does and I'm not convinced it's something I ever want to use. Others find that it "helps" their ammo. Any company that sells their handgun caliber reloading dies in a set of 3 or more dies already has the proper (taper) crimp built in to the bullet seating die. For most of us, this works just fine and nothing else is necessary. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 11, 2010, 09:34 PM	#17
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	My bad! I didn't read all of the OP's caliber usages. Sorry for the confusion. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

May 12, 2010, 07:08 AM	#19
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	What I don't buy into is the panacea of the factory crimp die. It's not a cure all for everything as people have posted. Some of the posters sound like medicine show barkers selling the elixer of life, cures all ailments and is good for you.

May 12, 2010, 10:55 AM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	burp; dang, I still ain't cured Handgun: The LEE die still performs a taper crimp, so what's the big deal? I crimp ALL my ammo using a separate die. Yes, it can add more time..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" Last edited by WESHOOT2; May 12, 2010 at 10:56 AM. Reason: I use Redding Profile Crimp dies exclusively for revolver cartridges

May 12, 2010, 11:43 AM	#21
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	The Lee factory crimp die for rifle cartridges is entirely different than the one for handgun ctgs. (I reluctantly use a FCD for .357 Magnum when using .358 cast bullets to make sure they will chamber, other than that I don't like them. But I'm pretty old (curmudgeonly) for my age __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 13, 2010, 05:37 AM	#22
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	I am leaning toward a Lee taper crimp die because of feed issues with my Ruger SR9.I have used the Taper crimp die for my Glock29, and it did make a noticeble difference in accuracy as well as feeding reliability.I was curious as to why Lee offered both a roll and taper crimp die for 9mm.

May 13, 2010, 07:06 AM	#23
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	Auto Pistol cartridges (9mm, 45acp, etc) get a taper crimp. Revolver cartridges (38spec, 357mag, 44mag, etc) get a roll crimp. http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sics/crimp.cfm And before someone else says it, the Lee Crimp dies DO NOT RESIZE THE BULLET. I performed a test measuring bullets before and after seating with and without crimping and found the only resizing effect came from merely seating the bullet in a properly sized case. Chris

May 13, 2010, 07:49 AM	#24
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	I use the Lee FCD on all pistol cartridges I load, I prefer to seat and crimp in separate operations,if adjusted properly the FCD does not harm bullets nor does it harm accuracy but IMO it does control set back and provide better feeding in most cases. Like any tool has to be used correctly.