Case sizing bullet

[kxkid]

How do I stop the case from sizing down my cast bullet? I am using the older style of Dillon dies for 9mm. Alloy is range scrape.

[pete2]

It may not make any difference. I bought a .45 Lee taper crimp die that has a resizing ring that sizes the body at the same time it's crimped. I can't tell any difference in accuracy shooting IDPA style. Still shoot heads at 25 yds with it. It may be different at 50 yds on a machine rest.
If accuracy is good don't worry about it.

[kxkid]

That's the problem it's making them under sized

[F. Guffey]

How do I stop the case from sizing down my cast bullet?

I do not know; how much bullet hold do you have? When I expand the neck/mouth of the case I use an expander. And then there are those bullets that give me a problem in two of my 45ACP. Both like new over the counter factory loaded ammo meaning reloads that have cases that take on the appearance of having swallowed the bullet do not work well in two of my 45ACPs.

To fix my reloades I run the loaded round through a carbide sizing die enough to remove the 'bullet line' from the case. After that my reloades fly through the 45ACP like 'new over the counter factory ammo.

F. Guffey

[kxkid]

I am coating my bullets then size them to .358. Load process. Full length size casevwith a Dillon 9mm carbide die, Then bell the case with Dillon expander, then seat bullet with Dillon setter, then just enough crimp to chamber in the tightest chamber I own, springfield xd mod 2 with a Dillon crimp die. My dies are the older style dies but never had a issue until I got new molds from noe. The Lee ones I had issues with screws and alignment pins falling out when up to temp. The bullets from the Lee molds were cast with the same alloy, range scrape from a indoor range, coated with the same harbor freight powder coat tumbled in the number 5 container trick and sized to .3565 and not once did they keyhole like I am getting now.

[mulespurs]

I have no idea if this is the cause but check that your expander die is expanding the case neck to the depth of the bullet.
My new reloading buddy had a problem when he set up his dies that he wasn't running the expander die deep enough, causing inadequate expansion and insufficient belling of the case mouth.
Also measure your bullet diameter just one more time and make sure they are large enough.
Let us know what you find out, just trying to help.

[Chainsaw.]

Wait. What? Your cases are swagging your lead bullets down?? Your lead is to soft or you cases are to small, which still seems to be a stretch. Whats you velocity range?

[kxkid]

1200 and under. I am going to guess the lead is too soft which is weird since I have never had this issue before with my old Lee molds sized the same with the same alloy. I just tried a silver state .355 bullet and it did not shrink to the .335 like my cast ones do. It's hardness is a roughly 15-18 and my range scrape is roughly 10-13. I am using the pencil method for hardness testing since hardness testers are expensive

[kxkid]

Also am oven heat treating some of my cast to see if it gets harder then try again

[Chainsaw.]

Check out lee's hardness tester. About $60.

[Mike / Tx]

Honestly I don't think its your alloy hardness, I'm running a similar hardness with my cast HP's with no issues. I also run about a 12 bhn alloy for my cast HP' in 357, 41, 44, and 45 Colt too end loads with no issues.

Still think it could be your sizing die, or expander. I could be dead wrong as well.

[luky-dude]

You need a custom oversize powder funnel. Get on the cast bullet site a guy there makes and sells them. I size to .358 my funnel is .359 This is on a Dillon 650

[kxkid]

I'll try my 38 funnel and see how that works. Like I have said many times this is wired because I have used the same Dillon dies to load a different bullet made with the same alloy and not a issue.

[luky-dude]

Load 6-8 no powder and pull the bullets and measure them with a mico-meter. Different funnel,not a .38.

[kxkid]

I think I have narrowed it down to hardness. I oven hardened some bullets a few days ago sized then put them in a belled case and pulled it size was .358, before hardening they were going down to .354. Then I seated and crimped and then pulled and got .358. So I power coated some that were hardened did the same thing and they came out at .354. So now I am oven hardening them coated. If that works I will cast coat size then harden them. One I am out of this range scrape on to reclaimed bird shot lead our this plus some harder alloy. The Lee hardness tester is number one on my list since the pencil test was kinda wrong for me.

[243winxb]

Oven heat treated , water cooled, need 2% antimony in the alloy.

It may take as much as 3 weeks for the bullets to fully harden.

Lyman's website has more under there FAQ

[azjohn]

You need a Lyman M die or like I use an expander for 357 mag. Your die is sizing the case for a 356 bullet for a 9 mm. Now your are pushing a 358 bullet into the case. The softer metal loses the harder one wins the squeeze game. Case is sizing the bullet down.

[kxkid]

Below are unhardened and oven heat treated after sizing and coating. That was one good whack with a 2.5# sledge. The coated one was harder by feel for sure and by a lot.

[kxkid]

Also they keep their size now when going in the case

[Chainsaw.]

Run your thumbnail into the base edge of the bullet. Perpendicular to the edge. If the lead deforms very easy its very soft, if you can't make a mark its HARD cast, probably to hard for auto pistol. A little deformation is about right.

[Unclenick]

Kxkid,

A couple of things come to mind. First, Dillon dies are for progressive loading and because some brands, like R-P, often have thinner brass at the mouths that can become springy, in order not to produce some bad rounds during progressive loading, their sizing die rings are pretty much at minimum diameter. I used to just toss R-P brass in .45 Auto because they were so springy after a couple of load cycles, they'd come out of my Lyman carbide sizing die too wide to hang onto the bullet, which would just fall in. But after I got a Dillon Square Deal, the R-P didn't do that anymore because the Dillon carbide ring was a little narrower. So, I expect you have a pretty tight 9 mm sizing ring.

Second, the 9 mm, even more than the .45 Auto, has a tapered case, so when you push it up into a fixed diameter carbide sizing ring, it gets a good bit narrower near the base than is really required. This works the brass more than necessary, and because the brass case wall thickens lower down, you can find some bullets that reach the thicker brass when it is over-resized, squeezing the bullet base hard. If you are using any Dillon press other than the Square Deal (which uses proprietary dies with non-standard threads), then the you have a couple of options for getting around over-resizing. One way around this is to get a tapered steel 9 mm sizing die. That means lubricating cases, though. I had thought of the Redding Dual ring dies, but afterward looked at the catalog and see they don't make them for 9 mm; possibly it is too short to make that work well.

Another option is to get a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die and remove the crimp ring depth setting plug (just unscrews) and run all your cases through this die first, to ensure the bottom is withing case feed specs, then set your Dillon die up high in the press so it only resizes the case mouth as far as you feel you need to (experiment, but around 0.3 inches should work). The only problem with this is the Dillon die will no longer be decapping your cases, so you will want then to do decapping as a separate operation on a Lee Universal Decapping Die. By the time you've gone through that much extra effort (two additional dies and three steps) to resize, investment in the steel die will probably be looking more attractive.

The other thing you can do if you are using standard dies is, as suggested, get a Lyman M die or their Multi-expander die if you have other pistol chamberings you load for. These put a step in the case to keep the bullet upright, as shown below. That starts the bullets straight into the case, which is very helpful for keeping the bullet straight all through seating. My Square Deal 45 Auto rounds always have the bullet base mirrored in the surface, but because I turned my own powder drop tube giving it a Lyman M type profile, the mark no longer is ever on just one side of the case and pronounced, but rather is almost perfectly even all around the case and less pronounced because the bullet is seated straight.

[kxkid]

Thanks for the help all. It turns out my alloy was just too soft, like I said it was range scrap from a indoor range. Reason I didn't think that is my old Lee 9mm bullets were cast with the same alloy and used the same dies sized the same and did not have a issue with bullets keyholeing. Today I tested some oven hardened bullets and they did not keyhole and they keep their size when pulled from the case unlike before oven hardening.