News story- Police respond to man playing with crossbow in his backyard - Page 4

johnbt · January 8, 2011, 07:01 PM

"and say "Yes, Mister Hitler Sir" "

Hitler? Isn't it a LAW OF THE INTERNET that threads have to end when Hitler is mentioned? Post #48 was it.

What does Hitler have to do with any of this?

Geez. That's worse than the other comments in this thread that show a complete lack of understanding of case law and police procedure.

My favorite was the visual search reference. A visual search? It's called looking around, everybody does it. You can't make this stuff up.

johnbt · January 8, 2011, 07:11 PM

I can't find the regulations for that location. Is it legal to shoot bows in residential areas? It isn't legal here.

"It is unlawful for any person to discharge arrows from a bow or crossbow in any street or public alley of this City, or to shoot an arrow from any type of ...
www.richmondgov.com"

Heck, in North Carolina you have to get a weapon purchase permit before you can buy a crossbow in NC.

hogdogs · January 8, 2011, 07:12 PM

While "looking around" they see a bong or anything else, it is admissible or am I wrong on that?
Brent

johnbt · January 8, 2011, 07:22 PM

If it's in plain view you didn't have to search for it, so no warrant was needed.

I just read an article in the LA Libertarian review something or other about the child abuse/neglect ticket.

"Grana and Shaw "also were ticketed on suspicion of child neglect, after police served a search warrant and reported finding multiple knives, crossbows and stun guns in proximity to the child." The child was 4.

Crossbows and stun guns. I would have traded them in on a used gun so I could properly defend my trailer.

hogdogs · January 8, 2011, 07:35 PM

The proximity of devices to children was never an issue in my household, Mine were taught to keep their carpet raking meat hooks off things that were "off limits"...

Brent

johnbt · January 8, 2011, 07:36 PM

In this 2008 news story, a man was charged with discharging a weapon in the city - among other things. The short version, man in wheelchair shoots crossbow at guy and misses from 3 feet away.

But one of the charges was "discharging a weapon within city limits".

http://journalstar.com/news/local/ar...b19829c60.html

A Lincoln newspaper article I just read on the current case also said that shooting bows was against the law there.

It appears the police were called for good reason, legally.

gc70 · January 8, 2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbt

I can't find the regulations for that location. Is it legal to shoot bows in residential areas? It isn't legal here.

Lincoln Municipal Code

Quote:

9.36.050 Discharge of Weapons and Other Instruments Unlawful.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except as provided in this chapter, to fire or discharge, within the corporate limits, or on any property of the City of Lincoln outside of the corporate limits, any air rifle, toy pistol, toy gun, slingshot, or any other air, gas, or spring operated gun, weapon, apparatus, or instrument for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever in such a manner as to endanger the safety of persons or property, whether the instrument is called by any name set forth above or by any other name.

johnbt · January 9, 2011, 09:12 AM

Thank you, that's better than the old article I dug up. I must have been watching the Indy Colts lose and enjoying it too much.

(Want to see my Baltimore Colts autograph collection?)

John

wally626 · January 9, 2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

9.36.050 Discharge of Weapons and Other Instruments Unlawful.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except as provided in this chapter, to fire or discharge, within the corporate limits, or on any property of the City of Lincoln outside of the corporate limits, any air rifle, toy pistol, toy gun, slingshot, or any other air, gas, or spring operated gun, weapon, apparatus, or instrument for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever in such a manner as to endanger the safety of persons or property, whether the instrument is called by any name set forth above or by any other name.

This does not make shooting arrows in the city illegal it just means care must be taken so that you are doing so in a safe manner.

jimbob86 · January 9, 2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Not suprising at all. Lincoln has enough laws that Chief "OnlyOne" Cassidy's boys can find something to charge just about anyone with something....

Quote:

9.36.050 Discharge of Weapons and Other Instruments Unlawful.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except as provided in this chapter, to fire or discharge, within the corporate limits, or on any property of the City of Lincoln outside of the corporate limits, any air rifle, toy pistol, toy gun, slingshot, or any other air, gas, or spring operated gun, weapon, apparatus, or instrument for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever

A toy pistol, people?!?!?!?!?! Lincoln, Nebraska is THE HOME of "There Oughta Be A LAW!"

I rest my case.

johnbt · January 10, 2011, 11:11 AM

"This does not make shooting arrows in the city illegal it just means care must be taken so that you are doing so in a safe manner."

And if somebody calls the cops on you for shooting arrows they are going to show up and ask about it.

And that's what they did. And an altercation ensued.

markj · January 11, 2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

I have also lived in homes with no heat... Space heaters and blankets broke the chill during the cold snaps.

Not in Lincoln Nebraska, was below zero last night, space heaters just wont cut it. Kids eat a lot, snacks and such.

Trailor guy did wrong, fought with the popo and went to jail. I dont recommend this type of activity, it will cost ya some.

Nebraska is the "Tax Me" state. I moved a long time ago.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 11, 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conn. Trooper

And I " lash out" because without fail, somebody will throw the bad cop scenario out there. No matter what, it pops up sooner or later.

Unfortunately, it always pops up because so many people have encountered the bad cops out there, and the good cops (whoever and wherever they are) don't do anything about cleaning out their own house. I'm sure you know of some bad apples in your force, but have you done anything to rein them in or get them tossed out of the State Police?

Based on a review of statutes and recent court cases, if a person has a carry permit in Connecticut, open carry is completely legal. Yet YOUR state police academy is teaching recruits that open carry is against the law. Can you explain that? How can a STATE police academy be teaching prospective police officers that lawful acts are illegal? Is it any wonder people don't trust police officers?

Conn. Trooper · January 12, 2011, 08:50 AM

That subject has been beat to death in other threads. It always results in Hitler and Jack Booted whatever coming up and then the thread gets locked. Look at some earlier threads about open carry in CT. and educate yourself.

bcrash15 · January 12, 2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbt

If it's in plain view you didn't have to search for it, so no warrant was needed.

This thread has gone a long way for clearing up something I always wondered, but it is still not apparent to me how this term is applied. How plain view are we talking here? For example, looking through the windows into the passenger compartment of a vehicle is one thing, but I wouldn't have considered a room inside my private residence plain view unless I had left the blinds open or it was visible from the front door (or I had consented to a search).

Thanks to everyone in here who are helping clear up these confusing areas of our laws!

Conn. Trooper · January 13, 2011, 07:44 AM

Plain view is just that. You need to be there legally and you need to be able to see it in plain view. Example, go to a complaint, reporting person invites you in and while in the house you see contraband. 1) You were there legally and you were invited in. 2) You saw items in plain sight, you didn't need to move anything, go anywhere you are not permitted to be, etc.

If you decide to put a pot plant in your picture window, thats plain sight. If you have a gun on your passenger seat and get pulled over. Thats plain sight.

If I go on a call and get invited in, then open the kitchen drawer and see a gun, thats not plain sight.

Plus, keep in mind this only applies to cops. Not meter readers, water company, gas company,etc. If you leave contraband in sight of them, they are under no restrictions as long as they are not trespassing.

johnbt · January 13, 2011, 09:01 AM

Yeah, half of them would probably think it was a tip and just take it, not turn you in.

Conn. Trooper · January 13, 2011, 04:27 PM

Probably.

I remember a while back working with campus security at a local college. They are not cops, just security. They were under no, zero, zilch, restrictions on where they went or what they searched. Everyone living on campus agreed and signed an agreement form in order to live there. They found lots of illegal stuff, with no search and seizure issues. Why? Because they are not cops and not acting at the direction of cops, and they are on their property.

youngunz4life · January 14, 2011, 12:22 AM

Sir, I don't doubt your story, but sometimes you just have to see it in black and white! I am not buying that, but once again there is no malicious intent in my disagreeing here. When I was in college I specifically remember the campus police searching my buddies room as only one of many examples:

probable cause with RA(resident assistant) smelling pot and then a bunch of underage kids drinking(was funny though - we were all drunk but every single beer can was completely empty). more than once when they searched his stuff they asked what stuff was not his and was his roomates. They were not allowed to search any of the non-present roomates belongings or personal items and/or area. They knew it was against his rights, and quite frankly they knew they couldn't do this. I remember other examples where the campus police had to follow the rules(all of this on campus obviously). many frats are off campus and thats not campus police. I never signed anything, but I guess the residents at this local college in a different state had different laws. That reminds me of correctional officers- they can obviously and rightfully should be able to search living quarters at any given time no questions asked or reason(s) needed, but campus security thinking they can just out of the blue enter my "residence" so to speak and give a look thru. I would've definately had a problem with that - even as a young, clueless teenager.

hogdogs · January 14, 2011, 01:32 AM

youngunz, Many if not most colleges have "sworn police officers" running the "campus police force"... some may have simple "security guards" so I do not doubt conn. troopers description at all.

But in reply to his "plain sight" scenarios... I may happen to have a bunch of PRIVATE "attire" or "paraphernalia" related to any sort of adult legal actions in the closet or what ever that I do not want seen by ANYONE and if I have an officer at my door wanting to gain entry to "sweep" the place to prevent occupants from destroying perceived or imagined "evidence", I will just have to shut the door in their face as my home will not be searched without a signed warrant. Anyone trying to enter without a warrant is trying to commit a federal crime by commiting a "WARRANT LESS SEARCH".

But even if I don't have my "spidey suit" hangin' in the closet, I still hold true to my desire to maintain my civil rights.

Brent

Conn. Trooper · January 14, 2011, 08:29 AM

Brent, if I have probable cause to secure your residence, pending a warrant, you are not just closing the door and hoping we go away. Trying that puts you in jail.

If there is no PC, feel free to decline and close the door. We have no choice but to walk away. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.

I understand not wanting to give up your rights or have them taken away. But, if PC exists, and we have the right, and a duty to act, we are coming in. That's the way it works. Every right can go away with due process, no right is absolute.

Conn. Trooper · January 14, 2011, 08:33 AM

conn trooper

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir, I don't doubt your story, but sometimes you just have to see it in black and white! I am not buying that, but once again there is no malicious intent in my disagreeing here. When I was in college I specifically remember the campus police searching my buddies room as only one of many examples:

probable cause with RA(resident assistant) smelling pot and then a bunch of underage kids drinking(was funny though - we were all drunk but every single beer can was completely empty). more than once when they searched his stuff they asked what stuff was not his and was his roomates. They were not allowed to search any of the non-present roomates belongings or personal items and/or area. They knew it was against his rights, and quite frankly they knew they couldn't do this. I remember other examples where the campus police had to follow the rules(all of this on campus obviously). many frats are off campus and thats not campus police. I never signed anything, but I guess the residents at this local college in a different state had different laws. That reminds me of correctional officers- they can obviously and rightfully should be able to search living quarters at any given time no questions asked or reason(s) needed, but campus security thinking they can just out of the blue enter my "residence" so to speak and give a look thru. I would've definately had a problem with that - even as a young, clueless teenager.
__________________

Read what you wrote. Campus POLICE. Cops have an entirely different set of rules to follow, due process and search and seizure etc. SECURITY has no such rules. Especially on their (the college) property, in their (the college again) house. All the rules in the world regarding warrants and searches apply only to agents of the government, not security. As long as they are acting on their own, and not at the direction of cops, they have no obligation get a warrant.

carguychris · January 14, 2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Brent, if I have probable cause to secure your residence, pending a warrant, you are not just closing the door and hoping we go away. Trying that puts you in jail.

+1; Brent, I know it sucks, but IMHO the best course of action in this situation is to clearly and politely state that you do not consent to a search and believe it is being conducted illegally, but then you should get out of the LEO's way. If the police find something illegal, the charges can be contested later in the proper forum- the courtroom.

Getting belligerant and/or physical may result in you being charged with obstructing a police investigation and/or threatening a law enforcement officer IN ADDITION to whatever charges result from the search.

youngunz4life · January 14, 2011, 12:57 PM

some colleges might call campus police campus security and vice versa. Even if I am wrong on that point, you want me to believe that campus security can just come into my place for whatever reason(without probable cause for this example) and start rummaging thru my stuff because they heard from my town police in the next state over I liked to party, deal pot, bad mouth the cops, etc? Sorry, I am not buying that. Same as apt security in a noncollege town; they're not coming in and doing anything. These entities have less authority than police. Campus security at the university of arizona, UMASS Amherst, or some small state college in east bum^&* have no right to enter a dorm, student apartment, student dwelling, or whatever and they can be prosecuted and definately will be fired. Also, that small baggee of weed the student gets charged with after security smoked half of it - that gets tossed out. sorry, had to throw that in. lol!

I Agree, they have a different set entirely of rules than the police, but it just doesn't sound right and I am not buying that unless I see it in black and white. Maybe someone else can come to my aid here or agree with you further. From all I have read, thats total heresay that one security guy told you while cracking a joke. It sounds good, but it doesn't hold water. I wouldn't be surprisd in the least if 1)he no longer has that security job or 2)went in the wrong person's house and "Daddy's girl" had his 'ass kicked' in strictly an expressional sense.

**I guess signing a waiver holds some water but still**
*not trying to pick bones here- it just doesnt sound right*

hogdogs · January 14, 2011, 01:04 PM

I take issue with the term Probable Cause. As I interpret it (And I may be wrong) is that a neighbor with an axe to grind, could make false claims against me to law enforcement. For instance, they could claim drug dealings or more heinous actions are taking place at my residence. Heck, they could claim they just saw me grab a kid off the street and haul them inside.

So when the officer arrives, I open the door and stand inside as he conveys the claim to me. I then reply that the neighbor is FoS and is just tryin' to harrass me and if this goes further, I will charge him with false charges/claims.

IMNSHO, the contact is complete and I am shutting my door and gettin' back to my coffee before it gets cold or to my beer before it gets warm.

I had a sort of similar issue when a neighbor thought he heard full auto gun fire from my place. It was a .22 ruger pistol and I had been trying to make it jam due to excessive fire rate.

I held it in one hand and "fanned" the trigger with the other.

2 cars arrived and asked to come inside to "look around" I declined and told them I was pretty sure what the neighbor was referring to... I offered to go get the pistol and replicate the sound of "full auto". All they asked me to do was bring it out empty, which I already intended to do.

In the mean time the "shift commander" had arrived.

I walked out with the OPEN pistol, mags, and a pint bowl of ammo.

With permission I let go one 10 round mag and they were all smilin' like school boys who had just witnessed an M-80 dropped in the toilet.

I stuck in the second mag and offered it up to them... before they left, I had run thru several mags and one officer asked what I had done to it. I told him i disabled the mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator.

As they walked back to the squad cars, the most interested was tellin' the commander, "Man I am gettin' me one of them on payday."

But the point is, I had told them that no one was coming in without a warrant and I would, otherwise, I would help in anyway I could.

Brent

January 14, 2011, 12:22 AM	#94
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	conn trooper Sir, I don't doubt your story, but sometimes you just have to see it in black and white! I am not buying that, but once again there is no malicious intent in my disagreeing here. When I was in college I specifically remember the campus police searching my buddies room as only one of many examples: probable cause with RA(resident assistant) smelling pot and then a bunch of underage kids drinking(was funny though - we were all drunk but every single beer can was completely empty). more than once when they searched his stuff they asked what stuff was not his and was his roomates. They were not allowed to search any of the non-present roomates belongings or personal items and/or area. They knew it was against his rights, and quite frankly they knew they couldn't do this. I remember other examples where the campus police had to follow the rules(all of this on campus obviously). many frats are off campus and thats not campus police. I never signed anything, but I guess the residents at this local college in a different state had different laws. That reminds me of correctional officers- they can obviously and rightfully should be able to search living quarters at any given time no questions asked or reason(s) needed, but campus security thinking they can just out of the blue enter my "residence" so to speak and give a look thru. I would've definately had a problem with that - even as a young, clueless teenager. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

January 14, 2011, 12:57 PM	#99
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	some colleges might call campus police campus security and vice versa. Even if I am wrong on that point, you want me to believe that campus security can just come into my place for whatever reason(without probable cause for this example) and start rummaging thru my stuff because they heard from my town police in the next state over I liked to party, deal pot, bad mouth the cops, etc? Sorry, I am not buying that. Same as apt security in a noncollege town; they're not coming in and doing anything. These entities have less authority than police. Campus security at the university of arizona, UMASS Amherst, or some small state college in east bum^&* have no right to enter a dorm, student apartment, student dwelling, or whatever and they can be prosecuted and definately will be fired. Also, that small baggee of weed the student gets charged with after security smoked half of it - that gets tossed out. sorry, had to throw that in. lol! I Agree, they have a different set entirely of rules than the police, but it just doesn't sound right and I am not buying that unless I see it in black and white. Maybe someone else can come to my aid here or agree with you further. From all I have read, thats total heresay that one security guy told you while cracking a joke. It sounds good, but it doesn't hold water. I wouldn't be surprisd in the least if 1)he no longer has that security job or 2)went in the wrong person's house and "Daddy's girl" had his 'ass kicked' in strictly an expressional sense. I guess signing a waiver holds some water but still not trying to pick bones here- it just doesnt sound right __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

January 8, 2011, 07:01 PM	#76
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"and say "Yes, Mister Hitler Sir" " Hitler? Isn't it a LAW OF THE INTERNET that threads have to end when Hitler is mentioned? Post #48 was it. What does Hitler have to do with any of this? Geez. That's worse than the other comments in this thread that show a complete lack of understanding of case law and police procedure. My favorite was the visual search reference. A visual search? It's called looking around, everybody does it. You can't make this stuff up.

January 8, 2011, 07:11 PM	#77
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	I can't find the regulations for that location. Is it legal to shoot bows in residential areas? It isn't legal here. "It is unlawful for any person to discharge arrows from a bow or crossbow in any street or public alley of this City, or to shoot an arrow from any type of ... www.richmondgov.com" Heck, in North Carolina you have to get a weapon purchase permit before you can buy a crossbow in NC.

January 8, 2011, 07:12 PM	#78
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	While "looking around" they see a bong or anything else, it is admissible or am I wrong on that? Brent

January 8, 2011, 07:22 PM	#79
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	If it's in plain view you didn't have to search for it, so no warrant was needed. I just read an article in the LA Libertarian review something or other about the child abuse/neglect ticket. "Grana and Shaw "also were ticketed on suspicion of child neglect, after police served a search warrant and reported finding multiple knives, crossbows and stun guns in proximity to the child." The child was 4. Crossbows and stun guns. I would have traded them in on a used gun so I could properly defend my trailer.

January 8, 2011, 07:35 PM	#80
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The proximity of devices to children was never an issue in my household, Mine were taught to keep their carpet raking meat hooks off things that were "off limits"... Brent

January 8, 2011, 07:36 PM	#81
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	In this 2008 news story, a man was charged with discharging a weapon in the city - among other things. The short version, man in wheelchair shoots crossbow at guy and misses from 3 feet away. But one of the charges was "discharging a weapon within city limits". http://journalstar.com/news/local/ar...b19829c60.html A Lincoln newspaper article I just read on the current case also said that shooting bows was against the law there. It appears the police were called for good reason, legally.

January 9, 2011, 09:12 AM	#83
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Thank you, that's better than the old article I dug up. I must have been watching the Indy Colts lose and enjoying it too much. (Want to see my Baltimore Colts autograph collection?) John

January 10, 2011, 11:11 AM	#86
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"This does not make shooting arrows in the city illegal it just means care must be taken so that you are doing so in a safe manner." And if somebody calls the cops on you for shooting arrows they are going to show up and ask about it. And that's what they did. And an altercation ensued.

January 12, 2011, 08:50 AM	#89
Conn. Trooper Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 530	That subject has been beat to death in other threads. It always results in Hitler and Jack Booted whatever coming up and then the thread gets locked. Look at some earlier threads about open carry in CT. and educate yourself.

January 13, 2011, 07:44 AM	#91
Conn. Trooper Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 530	Plain view is just that. You need to be there legally and you need to be able to see it in plain view. Example, go to a complaint, reporting person invites you in and while in the house you see contraband. 1) You were there legally and you were invited in. 2) You saw items in plain sight, you didn't need to move anything, go anywhere you are not permitted to be, etc. If you decide to put a pot plant in your picture window, thats plain sight. If you have a gun on your passenger seat and get pulled over. Thats plain sight. If I go on a call and get invited in, then open the kitchen drawer and see a gun, thats not plain sight. Plus, keep in mind this only applies to cops. Not meter readers, water company, gas company,etc. If you leave contraband in sight of them, they are under no restrictions as long as they are not trespassing.

January 13, 2011, 09:01 AM	#92
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Yeah, half of them would probably think it was a tip and just take it, not turn you in.

January 13, 2011, 04:27 PM	#93
Conn. Trooper Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 530	Probably. I remember a while back working with campus security at a local college. They are not cops, just security. They were under no, zero, zilch, restrictions on where they went or what they searched. Everyone living on campus agreed and signed an agreement form in order to live there. They found lots of illegal stuff, with no search and seizure issues. Why? Because they are not cops and not acting at the direction of cops, and they are on their property.

January 14, 2011, 01:32 AM	#95
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	youngunz, Many if not most colleges have "sworn police officers" running the "campus police force"... some may have simple "security guards" so I do not doubt conn. troopers description at all. But in reply to his "plain sight" scenarios... I may happen to have a bunch of PRIVATE "attire" or "paraphernalia" related to any sort of adult legal actions in the closet or what ever that I do not want seen by ANYONE and if I have an officer at my door wanting to gain entry to "sweep" the place to prevent occupants from destroying perceived or imagined "evidence", I will just have to shut the door in their face as my home will not be searched without a signed warrant. Anyone trying to enter without a warrant is trying to commit a federal crime by commiting a "WARRANT LESS SEARCH". But even if I don't have my "spidey suit" hangin' in the closet, I still hold true to my desire to maintain my civil rights. Brent

January 14, 2011, 08:29 AM	#96
Conn. Trooper Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 530	Brent, if I have probable cause to secure your residence, pending a warrant, you are not just closing the door and hoping we go away. Trying that puts you in jail. If there is no PC, feel free to decline and close the door. We have no choice but to walk away. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you. I understand not wanting to give up your rights or have them taken away. But, if PC exists, and we have the right, and a duty to act, we are coming in. That's the way it works. Every right can go away with due process, no right is absolute.

January 14, 2011, 08:33 AM	#97
Conn. Trooper Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 530	conn trooper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sir, I don't doubt your story, but sometimes you just have to see it in black and white! I am not buying that, but once again there is no malicious intent in my disagreeing here. When I was in college I specifically remember the campus police searching my buddies room as only one of many examples: probable cause with RA(resident assistant) smelling pot and then a bunch of underage kids drinking(was funny though - we were all drunk but every single beer can was completely empty). more than once when they searched his stuff they asked what stuff was not his and was his roomates. They were not allowed to search any of the non-present roomates belongings or personal items and/or area. They knew it was against his rights, and quite frankly they knew they couldn't do this. I remember other examples where the campus police had to follow the rules(all of this on campus obviously). many frats are off campus and thats not campus police. I never signed anything, but I guess the residents at this local college in a different state had different laws. That reminds me of correctional officers- they can obviously and rightfully should be able to search living quarters at any given time no questions asked or reason(s) needed, but campus security thinking they can just out of the blue enter my "residence" so to speak and give a look thru. I would've definately had a problem with that - even as a young, clueless teenager. __________________ Read what you wrote. Campus POLICE. Cops have an entirely different set of rules to follow, due process and search and seizure etc. SECURITY has no such rules. Especially on their (the college) property, in their (the college again) house. All the rules in the world regarding warrants and searches apply only to agents of the government, not security. As long as they are acting on their own, and not at the direction of cops, they have no obligation get a warrant.

January 14, 2011, 01:04 PM	#100
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I take issue with the term Probable Cause. As I interpret it (And I may be wrong) is that a neighbor with an axe to grind, could make false claims against me to law enforcement. For instance, they could claim drug dealings or more heinous actions are taking place at my residence. Heck, they could claim they just saw me grab a kid off the street and haul them inside. So when the officer arrives, I open the door and stand inside as he conveys the claim to me. I then reply that the neighbor is FoS and is just tryin' to harrass me and if this goes further, I will charge him with false charges/claims. IMNSHO, the contact is complete and I am shutting my door and gettin' back to my coffee before it gets cold or to my beer before it gets warm. I had a sort of similar issue when a neighbor thought he heard full auto gun fire from my place. It was a .22 ruger pistol and I had been trying to make it jam due to excessive fire rate. I held it in one hand and "fanned" the trigger with the other. 2 cars arrived and asked to come inside to "look around" I declined and told them I was pretty sure what the neighbor was referring to... I offered to go get the pistol and replicate the sound of "full auto". All they asked me to do was bring it out empty, which I already intended to do. In the mean time the "shift commander" had arrived. I walked out with the OPEN pistol, mags, and a pint bowl of ammo. With permission I let go one 10 round mag and they were all smilin' like school boys who had just witnessed an M-80 dropped in the toilet. I stuck in the second mag and offered it up to them... before they left, I had run thru several mags and one officer asked what I had done to it. I told him i disabled the mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator. As they walked back to the squad cars, the most interested was tellin' the commander, "Man I am gettin' me one of them on payday." But the point is, I had told them that no one was coming in without a warrant and I would, otherwise, I would help in anyway I could. Brent