If you shoot a home intruder... - Page 3

pax · February 19, 2013, 02:34 PM

Dale,

You don't want insurance. You do want help with your legal bills.

The difference between the two is this: insurance pays out only after you are acquitted, and only if you go to trial and are found not guilty on every charge including minor ones. It does not pay any fees you accrue if your case does not go to trial. It will not pay if you are found guilty of a minor charge or if you accept a good plea bargain.

If you successfully navigate the tricky legal waters before trial, you should be able to keep your case out of court in the first place. Not going to trial is usually a much better outcome financially, socially, and emotionally. By educating yourself before your event, and by hiring a good lawyer and some specialists (such as a private investigator to give your lawyer the ammunition he or she needs to make your case to the prosecutor not to press charges) immediately after your event, you improve your chances of avoiding trial or facing prosecution in the first place. But insurance won't help you cover those pre-trial costs if you successfully avoid trial.

What you should look for instead is a plan that:

1) Offers some immediate money to your lawyer to get your legal defense moving in the right direction right away. Criminal attorneys do not offer their services in advance of payment, so if you don't have $10k or so sitting around ready to use, you want to look for a plan that takes care of that.

2) Provides some form of specialized, expert assistance to your lawyer, because justified self-defense is a very narrow field. Most criminal defense attorneys will go through an entire career without ever seeing a truly justified self defense; although self defense claims are very common, justified claims by people who are truly innocent are extremely rare, and need to be treated quite differently than the more usual types of claims.

3) Offers financial benefits that do not require your case going to trial, because the best outcomes involve pursuading the prosecutor not to press forward in the first place. Going to trial with a not-guilty outcome is second-best, not the ideal plan. And even getting that second best outcome requires a big up front financial investment that you might not be able to swing without help.

My recommendation is joining ACLDN -- www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. The disclaimer is that the founder of ACLDN (Marty Hayes) is a close personal friend and neighbor of mine, and my mentor in the world of firearms instruction, so I'm biased. On the other hand, after knowing him personally for the past 14 years and seeing up close how he does business over the years, I can tell you I have complete faith in his integrity and ability to do the things he promises to do through ACLDN. That's not something I can say for most of the other insurance and non-insurance options that are out there.

pax

ClydeFrog · February 19, 2013, 03:52 PM

Thank you Pax....
I'm not a resident of the metro OK City or OKC area.
I just recall a few points of the high profile criminal investigation.

I just checked the media animated simulation of the documented events but the website link did not work.

CF

timn8er · February 19, 2013, 06:18 PM

What about this company called CCWSAFE. Has anybody checked them out?

357 Python · February 19, 2013, 07:10 PM

First off as a police officer I fully expect to be taken into custody, if for no other reason but for questioning. As a former Private Investigator I know it would not be wise on my part to make any statements except my name, and that my attorney will be handling my affairs from here on. After my call to law enforcement which will include a brief statement that I was in fear of my life or the life of a loved one (which will most likely be recorded) my next call is to my attorney. Remember that law enforcement is not necessarily your friend in this situation but your attorney (who works for you) is. I will cooperate with the responding officers as much as possible in as safe a manner as possible. Far too many good guys have been mistakenly shot by responding officers for simple things such as bringing your hands up to surrender with the gun in your hand. This action may be misread by an officer already nervous and on high alert. Don't get me wrong, most of my friends wear a badge and carry a gun but when my freedom is at stake they have a job to do and so does my attorney.

DaleA · February 19, 2013, 11:57 PM

Thanks Pax!

I did not realize the in's and out's. Your info is a real eye opener for me and something I admit I should check out rather than sit here with my head in the sand and my fingers crossed.

SauerGrapes · February 20, 2013, 08:55 PM

Quote:

The police returned the next day and arrested the home owner because his life was not being threatened when the shot was fired. I can't remember the exact charges but it is something along the lines of discharging a firearm in city limits.

Not surprising.
If the need arises to draw my weapon and the perp takes off, I'm certainly not discharging my firearm in any direction. That's pretty stupid IMO.

February 19, 2013, 02:34 PM	#51
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Dale, You don't want insurance. You do want help with your legal bills. The difference between the two is this: insurance pays out only after you are acquitted, and only if you go to trial and are found not guilty on every charge including minor ones. It does not pay any fees you accrue if your case does not go to trial. It will not pay if you are found guilty of a minor charge or if you accept a good plea bargain. If you successfully navigate the tricky legal waters before trial, you should be able to keep your case out of court in the first place. Not going to trial is usually a much better outcome financially, socially, and emotionally. By educating yourself before your event, and by hiring a good lawyer and some specialists (such as a private investigator to give your lawyer the ammunition he or she needs to make your case to the prosecutor not to press charges) immediately after your event, you improve your chances of avoiding trial or facing prosecution in the first place. But insurance won't help you cover those pre-trial costs if you successfully avoid trial. What you should look for instead is a plan that: 1) Offers some immediate money to your lawyer to get your legal defense moving in the right direction right away. Criminal attorneys do not offer their services in advance of payment, so if you don't have $10k or so sitting around ready to use, you want to look for a plan that takes care of that. 2) Provides some form of specialized, expert assistance to your lawyer, because justified self-defense is a very narrow field. Most criminal defense attorneys will go through an entire career without ever seeing a truly justified self defense; although self defense claims are very common, justified claims by people who are truly innocent are extremely rare, and need to be treated quite differently than the more usual types of claims. 3) Offers financial benefits that do not require your case going to trial, because the best outcomes involve pursuading the prosecutor not to press forward in the first place. Going to trial with a not-guilty outcome is second-best, not the ideal plan. And even getting that second best outcome requires a big up front financial investment that you might not be able to swing without help. My recommendation is joining ACLDN -- www.armedcitizensnetwork.org. The disclaimer is that the founder of ACLDN (Marty Hayes) is a close personal friend and neighbor of mine, and my mentor in the world of firearms instruction, so I'm biased. On the other hand, after knowing him personally for the past 14 years and seeing up close how he does business over the years, I can tell you I have complete faith in his integrity and ability to do the things he promises to do through ACLDN. That's not something I can say for most of the other insurance and non-insurance options that are out there. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

February 19, 2013, 03:52 PM	#52
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Thanks Pax... Thank you Pax.... I'm not a resident of the metro OK City or OKC area. I just recall a few points of the high profile criminal investigation. I just checked the media animated simulation of the documented events but the website link did not work. CF Last edited by ClydeFrog; February 19, 2013 at 03:57 PM.

February 19, 2013, 06:18 PM	#53
timn8er Member Join Date: December 5, 2012 Posts: 40	What about this company called CCWSAFE. Has anybody checked them out? __________________ Wait a minute...What??

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 19, 2013, 07:10 PM	#54
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	First off as a police officer I fully expect to be taken into custody, if for no other reason but for questioning. As a former Private Investigator I know it would not be wise on my part to make any statements except my name, and that my attorney will be handling my affairs from here on. After my call to law enforcement which will include a brief statement that I was in fear of my life or the life of a loved one (which will most likely be recorded) my next call is to my attorney. Remember that law enforcement is not necessarily your friend in this situation but your attorney (who works for you) is. I will cooperate with the responding officers as much as possible in as safe a manner as possible. Far too many good guys have been mistakenly shot by responding officers for simple things such as bringing your hands up to surrender with the gun in your hand. This action may be misread by an officer already nervous and on high alert. Don't get me wrong, most of my friends wear a badge and carry a gun but when my freedom is at stake they have a job to do and so does my attorney.

February 19, 2013, 11:57 PM	#55
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Thanks Pax! I did not realize the in's and out's. Your info is a real eye opener for me and something I admit I should check out rather than sit here with my head in the sand and my fingers crossed.