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July 22, 2012, 04:40 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: July 21, 2012
Posts: 2
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A question about ownership, again.
I know this question has been asked and answered so many times before, but I ask for your patience, as I'm the "new kid" with TFL.
I digress; As a result of diminishing eyesight, I have to give my guns (2 semi-auto pistols, 2 shotguns, and 2 semi-auto rifles) to my son. He lives in California, and I live in Illinois (NOT in Chicago, thank you !). I have read so many interpretations and variations of the "rules", just what must I do to make this happen ? My guns are ALL legal (with receipts). He is NOT a felon with a criminal record, and he is NOT crazy, and he has promised that he will keep the guns stored in a safe, which I bought for him. Does he, or I, have to go through an FFL dealer, file a form and wait 30 days ? Does he have to register these guns with California law enforcement ? Thanks for understanding my delimna. |
July 22, 2012, 05:00 PM | #2 | |
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Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Woooooshington
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Regarding the shipment and receipt of firearms only...
On his end, he has to receive the guns from an FFL. You being a private party, the Cal. FFL may or may not receive the firearm(s) at their discretion... like any FFL anywhere, it's their choice. Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of... it's no different than shipping a firearm to any other state. If you ship via an FFL in your state, they must have a CFLC (California Firearms Licensee Check) number. The FFL must enroll in the CFLC program to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval numbers prior to shipping firearms to California. I know the above, because I used to ship firearms from WA to CAL on a near daily basis. The CFLC part was a small PITA, but once enrolled, the shipping dealer only needs a few minutes to obtain the number on line. Quote:
That's all I know. C
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July 22, 2012, 05:51 PM | #3 |
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Join Date: July 31, 2009
Posts: 642
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http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...ms/Cfl2007.pdf
Covers the firearm laws of California. If the weapons are allowed by CA then it should be just a straight forward transferr through a FFL, forms will have to be filled out for sure. Transferrs of weapons between people in CA almost always requires passing through a FFL. Transfers from persons out of state also require going through a FFL. There are a couple of very limited exceptions if I remember correctly for in-state transferrs, but those would not apply to you and your son. What I am not sure on is transferr of weapons that are not on CA's list of safe weapons. There are also bans on certain types of semi-automatic rifles. You may want to give your son a list of the weapons with good descriptions he can take to a local FFL to make sure they can be sent to CA. He can also then check on how the FFL will accept shipments and what fees etc. may be involved. |
July 22, 2012, 06:07 PM | #4 |
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Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
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The big gotchas that I know of are:
* No shipping mags of more than 10rd capacity in. * No .410ga revolvers AT ALL in California (Taurus Judge, S&W Governor, BFRs in .410, etc.).
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July 22, 2012, 07:08 PM | #5 | |
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
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Here's the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):
[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). [2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you. [3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. [4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies. [5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives. [6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3). Here's what the statutes say:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 22, 2012, 11:53 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: September 12, 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 854
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Taken from http://chris.cc/interstate.htm:
2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State? Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5). The temporary loan loophole is intriguing, but I'm not sure how safe that option really is (probably not very safe). It seems so counterintuitive for these guns to get shipped when I'd rather see them driven across state lines (seems like a no brainer to me), but because this will be a "transfer", ATF laws apply. Basically, the poster above answered all of your questions. A licensee must receive the guns, and all CA laws must apply.
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July 23, 2012, 12:01 AM | #7 | |
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
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Quote:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 23, 2012, 12:41 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: September 12, 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 854
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Thanks for clarifying that, Frank. That completely shuts the door on any other options you may have, Grampaof5. I would like to say that your son is one heck of a lucky fella to be gettin' those guns!!!
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July 23, 2012, 01:15 AM | #9 |
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Join Date: July 6, 2010
Location: OTS
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grandpaof5,
Your son will have to do some local homework to help this out. He will need to find an FFL here that really understands the state laws of CA this may take some time. here is a like to a form that should help him talk to the local FFL's. the phrase your looking for is Intra-Familial. This is easy if within the state, a little harder from out of state. If the long gun is listed on the banned list then it can't enter the state. Any mags over 10 rounds are out of luck. Handguns that are no on the approved CA list are exempt for Intra-Familial transfers. Good Luck! PS make sure every gun that is sent has paperwork stating that this is a gift to you son.
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July 23, 2012, 01:58 AM | #10 | |
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Join Date: April 18, 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 237
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Quote:
There's no argument about who wants what. And we "could" leave them in the family home without crossing the state line. But that would seem a little silly. But shipping the rifles we used as kids to a local FFL so we can "receive" them is almost as inane. |
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July 23, 2012, 07:41 AM | #11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: July 21, 2012
Posts: 2
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Asked for, and RECEIVED ! THANKS TO ALL
WOW, Thanks to all for so many exellent answers to my question. I did indeed, come to the right spot, and far better than any of the explanations from the so-called experts at the gun stores. I don't believe how much government, bureaucrtic baloney there is to giving gifts to someone.
Thanks again, all. I got to get to reading.....G-Pa/5 |
July 24, 2012, 01:16 AM | #12 |
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Join Date: March 24, 2011
Posts: 730
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When you inherit a gun it does not have to be specific by SN. don't worry about it...take your share home with you. you inherited it.
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