Tumbler vs Sonic Cleaner

[GermanShep]

Hello again,

I'm just getting into reloading and am trying to determine what exactly I need to get going. When it comes to case cleaning I have been going back and fourth between a traditional tumbler that uses walnut or corncob media and a sonic cleaner that uses liquid cleaner.

One of my concerns with reloading is the possible increase in lead exposure. I am wondering if using a sonic cleaner would be a way to decrease possible lead exposure as the case and primer residue would be contained within the liquid as opposed to a tumbler which can create a significant amount of dust. Is a sonic cleaner an adequate replacement for a tumbler, or is it intended to be used more as an adjunctive case prep method in addition to tumbling? I would like to hear from people with experience with sonic cleaners. Am I making too big of deal out the lead thing? Let me know what you guys think. Thanks in advance!

[MEATSAW]

Use both!

I like to deprime all my dirty brass with the universal lee decapper die. Then they all go through the ultrasonic for a few cycles. This really cleans them inside and out and does a marvelous job on the primer pockets. Then I put them in a zippered sack and put them in the clothes dryer for about 15 minutes. Then on to the tumbler with "desert blend" walnut media with NuFinish for 6-8 hours. Everything comes out looking better than new. Bag em and tag em!

[GermanShep]

Use both!

Haha yes, I guess that would be ideal. However, I'm trying to keep my start-up costs to a minimum so that my break-even point will at a lower reloaded round count.

[MEATSAW]

I would say ultrasonic then. It won't polish the brass but it gets it clean inside and out and it goes pretty quick (30 minutes or less + drying time).

[NWPilgrim]

The key step to reduce exposure to lead is to decap the primers from cases BEFORE cleaning. This eliminates the lead ladened primer dust from all further handling.

Then you can dry tumble, sonic clean, or wet stainless tumble for looks. Currently I decap, sonic clean, size/swage/trim as needed, then dry tumble with car wax before loading.

The sonic cleaner works well except my Lyman machine started buzzing a lot, and getting worse. So while I try to troubleshoot that I went ahead and ordered a stainless pin and Thumbler kit. Although expensive I think the stainless pin method may be the most durable and thorough. And the dry vibratory method the cheapest while still good enough.

Most if this is just for looks; you could wash the dirt off in a bucket of mild detergent if really dirty and have perfectly usable cases.

While sonic gives great results I am disappointed in the durability of the machine. Mine worked flawlessly for about 2,000 cases and then gradually started buzzing. My cheap Midway vibratory tumbler lasted 17 years and cleaned tens of thousands of cases before the motor died and it only cost $40. My new Dillion vibratory cost more than the Thumbler and will likely last several decades. I expect from the design if the rotary tumbler it too should last several decades.

For staring out if you want to keep expenses down I would get a Berry's vibratory tumbler. If you decide later you want to upgrade then I would consider the stainless pin wet rotary Thumbler tumbler.

[bt380]

Right on w/ the lead exposure. The Thumlers Tumbler gets you past the lead exposure (wearing nitrile gloves for instance), but is spendy. The sonic cleaner also gets you past the lead exposure (same gloves), and is 1/2 spendy. The media used to clean with gets spendy on the vibrators after awhile as it adds up.
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You get what you pay for on sonic cleaners. The cheaper ones give the sonic cleaner mixed reviews. The way expensive cleaners live on a different block than I and I'm not allowed to know how well they work. Look into a medium priced sonic cleaner (ie Lyman TS-2500 on sale around $95) and not worry about extra extra shinny. Lee 2nd edition p52 states "w/ excessively clean brass rubbing off on the carbide die if you have that type of die sets. The dirt, soot, oxides and oil on the case keeps the cases from galling the carbide." The TS-2500 lets you do other things and make it more versatile. I'm not sure how the cleaning condition behaves w/ the Hornady titanium die. Titanium is also on a different block.
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If you live near a Cabelas, they are often cheaper than mail order on some of their inventory. Get one of their credit cards and you get member notices that takes off $20 (for 100-200$), $30 (200-300$) up to 60$ off. Buy the item on sale and use the fliers and it saves more.
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In case you haven't, before you buy reloading equipment, buy the Lyman 49th edition first, then the Lee 2nd edition and read the material before the load data. Ask a boat load of questions on the forums and verify everything you read w/ a manual or can prove yourself. One bad assumption may be a serious injury.
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Check Craigs list and go to estate sales an you can find some good buys. The problem w/ the estate sales are the ghost that comes w/ the equipment rarely shuts up and keeps giving bad advice!!! Badump-bump....

[bt380]

In regards to lead exposure. Some of the less funded in-door gun ranges will have higher lead exposure in the air as the crowds increase. Look for the air handler vents and be down stream of those so the air currents travel away from you. I take a hepa mask and will some times use it pending where I am positioned in the range. My gene pool likes lung cancer so I should wear it more readily than not. I also like to be next to a wall so I can gather my brass easier. I like to shoot by lots so I can keep the history. Eventually I do toss a lot using the 5% rule (Lyman p55).

[cryogenic419]

If I had to pick just one method, I'd go ultrasonic. You'll have to deprime cases first but after that its smooth sailing. Your cases will come out CLEAN, not mostly clean. They are dust free, no contaminants left to scratch your dies or anything along those lines. The initial cost of getting a good ultrasonic is going to be more than a tumbler and I know some have had issues with the longevity.

As far as the lead residue goes, for me I'd rather have that crap suspended in water rather than possilbly airbourne.

To assist in drying, I picked up a heat gun and a cheap wire basket inbox from an office supply store. I can dry 200 .223 cases in under 3 minutes.

[snuffy]

The key step to reduce exposure to lead is to decap the primers from cases BEFORE cleaning. This eliminates the lead ladened primer dust from all further handling.

Oh? How's that? Most of the primer residue that contains the lead styphonate salts, is left in the bottom of the primer pocket. It's also present in the carbon inside the case. Removing the primer simply allows whatever cleaning system you use to "get at" the bottom of the primer pocket.

Ultrasonics work fine for cleaning brass. Especially stained brass, that's been exposed to water. Of course you MUST use an acid type solution, Hornady sells some for their US, or you can make your own by using lemishine from the canning section at the sooper market. Ultrasonics are especially good at cleaning handguns.

When I first got my U.S., I had cleaned my 45 1911 as good as I could without totally disassembling it. That means using gun scrubber liquid solvent to spray as much crud as could be gotten out of it. I submersed the entire frame, and slide in my el-cheapo Harbor Freight U.S. I used shooters choice Aqua clean made for U.S. cleaners. It's a high tech soap, really aggressive. You would NOT believe the cra* and crud that came out of the pistol. One thing though, it takes ALL the oils off of EVERYTHING! You have to oil it really good, inside and out. EVEN IF IT'S STAINLESS! (StainLESS steel is just what it says, it stains less, in some cases it will still rust).

I also have a vibratory tumbler. It's what I use 95% of the time. I'm not at all concerned about primer dust and it's lead contamination. Just be darn careful when you're taking brass out of the tumbler. (And be sure to run it with the cover on). That's when you'll inhale the dust. I do it outside when the Wisconsin weather permits, or wear a dust mask when I'm forced inside by our infamous winters.

I'm also NOT concerned about primer pockets,(I don't clean ANY primer pockets), or the carbon inside the case. The carbon does NO harm to your reloads. It does NOT build up.

As far as the crud on a unclean case gouging a carbide sizer, you've got to be kidding! The only thing that will scratch carbide is diamonds. If your brass fell among diamond dust, I'd be looking for where that came from, there's got to be bigger pieces around, lotsa $$$$$!

[serf 'rett]

The third option is wet tumbling with stainless steel pins. Clean brass, no dust. High start up cost will be offset by long life and low operating cost.

[GermanShep]

If I am understanding correctly, the sequence of steps is as follows: 1) deprime 2) clean case with sonic cleaner 3) tumble case for a nice shine. Then begin the additional reloading steps such as resizing, flare, seating etc.

If this is the case I think I might go a cheap dedicated depriming die and press such as the lee handpress for depriming and then use the press I have picked out (Lee Classic Turret) for the rest of my operations. Seems like this would be the neatest and cleanest way to go about things.

I might start out with the Hornady Lock n Load Sonic Cleaner then add a tumbler as funds allow later. How often do you have to replace the liquid in a sonic cleaner?

[jepp2]

If I am understanding correctly, the sequence of steps is as follows: 1) deprime 2) clean case with sonic cleaner 3) tumble case for a nice shine. Then begin the additional reloading steps such as resizing, flare, seating etc.

If you asked 10 people you would probably get 12 sequences to follow. Most folks don't deprime before tumbling, I do. Most folks just use 1 cleaning process, I use a vibrating tumbler.

What is important is cleaning any abrasive type debris from the outside of the case before you size it. You can do this by wiping it off. I like shiny brass, so I use additives in my tumbling media. But once you get past clean of abrasive materials that "could" scratch a die, you are spending effort that has no real payback. I do find that brass that has been tumbled in NuFinish seems to size in carbide dies slightly easier.