44 Mag and Red Dot

bkhann · January 24, 2012, 10:05 AM

I am still working up test loads for my new S&W 629-6 5" 44 Mag revolver. I have 1000 ea Berry's plated .429 44 cal HP-DS bullets. I also hace a large quantity of Red Dot powder left over form shotgun loading.

I am looking for range, plinking 44 mag ammo; moderate loads.

Is Red Dot appropriate for this? Is it relatively clean shooting?

Thanks

Slamfire · January 24, 2012, 10:10 AM

I shot Red Dot in the 44 Spl and it is a very accurate powder for target type loads in that caliber. I never developed target loads in the 44 Magnum but I have no doubt that Red Dot will work equally as well.

rclark · January 24, 2012, 11:42 AM

Absolutely. Just did some testing with Red Dot and .44Mag 240g SWC. Don't have the data in front of me (it's at home) so won't quote load data here, but it is 'excellent' for target/plinking loads. I like Unique, used it for years, but will be loading Red Dot instead for my target loads.

**Unclenick** · January 24, 2012, 12:24 PM

.44 Special and .44 Mag have what is, for practical purposes, the same maximum COL, and pretty much, if you use the same COLs, .44 Special loads will perform about the same in a .44 Mag case. Some makers may thicken the .44 Mag brass case heads a little, reducing capacity a little, but the .44 Mag would tolerate the slightly higher pressures that would result very easily.

Try 4 grains of Red Dot for a target load. 5 grains will give you a plinker with a little more oomph.

Sevens · January 24, 2012, 01:22 PM

Hint for Red Dot users: You can substitute Alliant Promo for Red Dot by weight (not volume), Promo is only available in 8-pound containers. It's probably the most economical powder on the market that isn't some kind of a surplus or pull-down re-packaged powder.

**Unclenick** · January 24, 2012, 02:27 PM

I think the OP said he already has the Red Dot, but that's a good heads up for the future. How does Promo compare on metering and fouling?

Sevens · January 24, 2012, 03:15 PM

I don't know!

I have a buddy that uses piles of the stuff, but I've just gotten to like my large slew of powders so much that I've never given it a chance.

But I would assume that it meters much like Blue Dot and Green Dot which I do have... which is to say that my Lyman 55 does a fairly good job with them, but I know that I'm fortunate because many other measure really stink with these powders. My Hornady measure included.

To try Promo requires a bit of a leap of faith as it's 8 pounds or nothing... but you can snag those for typically under $90, so there's definitely a $$$ savings in there.

rclark · January 24, 2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Try 4 grains of Red Dot for a target load. 5 grains will give you a plinker with a little more oomph.

Boy, those would be plinker loads

. The tests I ran were from 6.5g, 7.0g, 7.5g, and 8.0g under 240g SWC which I thought were 'light'

. Again, at work so the chrono data isn't available to post up right now.

Never have seen any Promo powder in any store I've been in.

**Unclenick** · January 24, 2012, 05:37 PM

Yeah. Those are cowboy action level. I note that Alliant recommends 6.5 grains for the .44 mag and claims 905 feet per second from it with a 7.5" barrel, which is fast enough for swaged lead. But you've got to experiment a little with these things. Mine was actually .44 Special that was mostly for offhand practice in a .44 Special Charter Bulldog, so light recoil and not much punch was needed if I wanted to shoot all afternoon. I probably should have upped them a grain for a heavier revolver frame.

SHR970 · January 24, 2012, 08:04 PM

I ran a batch of Xtreme 240 gr. plated flat round nose with 7.0 grains of R.D. through my 7.5" SRH. It was a decent plinker round with reasonable offhand accuracy. This was old formula R.D. that I was burning up and was surprised to find that it left the cases fairly clean and not too bad on the grey residue left on the gun. I wouldn't push it too much harder (maybe 1/2 grain) as this is a fast powder and you can jump pressures through the roof real quick with it.

Hercules book from 1992 shows 7.7 grains as max for 240 gr. soft point.

rclark · January 24, 2012, 08:13 PM

Okay here my Red Dot load data for all that may be interested:

.44Mag 50th Flattop 6 1/2"

6.5g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, _947fps, 11 SD, 32 ES, 15 Shots
7.0g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, _990fps, 14 SD, 45 ES, 15 Shots
7.5g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1048fps, _7 SD, 23 ES, 15 Shots
8.0g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1080fps, _7 SD, 24 ES, 15 Shots

I've marked the 8.0g as accurate, but I think they all shot well. It was 32F at the time of test. All were loaded together (so crimp same), new Starline brass. Note I usually throw out an obvious high and/or low, but this case there was none.... So all 15 shots are accounted for in the above data!

FWIW...

**44 AMP** · January 25, 2012, 03:31 PM

Have been using Red Dot as my standard .38 SPL load (158gr@850+/-) for decades. Its a little dirty. In the bigger cases, I use Unique, because my preference for them is loads at midrange, and above.

January 24, 2012, 10:05 AM	#1
bkhann Member Join Date: August 5, 2009 Location: Grand Rapids MI Posts: 98	44 Mag and Red Dot I am still working up test loads for my new S&W 629-6 5" 44 Mag revolver. I have 1000 ea Berry's plated .429 44 cal HP-DS bullets. I also hace a large quantity of Red Dot powder left over form shotgun loading. I am looking for range, plinking 44 mag ammo; moderate loads. Is Red Dot appropriate for this? Is it relatively clean shooting? Thanks

January 24, 2012, 10:10 AM	#2
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I shot Red Dot in the 44 Spl and it is a very accurate powder for target type loads in that caliber. I never developed target loads in the 44 Magnum but I have no doubt that Red Dot will work equally as well. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

January 24, 2012, 11:42 AM	#3
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,618	Absolutely. Just did some testing with Red Dot and .44Mag 240g SWC. Don't have the data in front of me (it's at home) so won't quote load data here, but it is 'excellent' for target/plinking loads. I like Unique, used it for years, but will be loading Red Dot instead for my target loads. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

January 24, 2012, 12:24 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	.44 Special and .44 Mag have what is, for practical purposes, the same maximum COL, and pretty much, if you use the same COLs, .44 Special loads will perform about the same in a .44 Mag case. Some makers may thicken the .44 Mag brass case heads a little, reducing capacity a little, but the .44 Mag would tolerate the slightly higher pressures that would result very easily. Try 4 grains of Red Dot for a target load. 5 grains will give you a plinker with a little more oomph. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 24, 2012, 01:22 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	Hint for Red Dot users: You can substitute Alliant Promo for Red Dot by weight (not volume), Promo is only available in 8-pound containers. It's probably the most economical powder on the market that isn't some kind of a surplus or pull-down re-packaged powder. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 24, 2012, 02:27 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	I think the OP said he already has the Red Dot, but that's a good heads up for the future. How does Promo compare on metering and fouling? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 24, 2012, 03:15 PM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	I don't know! I have a buddy that uses piles of the stuff, but I've just gotten to like my large slew of powders so much that I've never given it a chance. But I would assume that it meters much like Blue Dot and Green Dot which I do have... which is to say that my Lyman 55 does a fairly good job with them, but I know that I'm fortunate because many other measure really stink with these powders. My Hornady measure included. To try Promo requires a bit of a leap of faith as it's 8 pounds or nothing... but you can snag those for typically under $90, so there's definitely a $$$ savings in there. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 24, 2012, 05:37 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	Yeah. Those are cowboy action level. I note that Alliant recommends 6.5 grains for the .44 mag and claims 905 feet per second from it with a 7.5" barrel, which is fast enough for swaged lead. But you've got to experiment a little with these things. Mine was actually .44 Special that was mostly for offhand practice in a .44 Special Charter Bulldog, so light recoil and not much punch was needed if I wanted to shoot all afternoon. I probably should have upped them a grain for a heavier revolver frame. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 24, 2012, 08:04 PM	#10
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	I ran a batch of Xtreme 240 gr. plated flat round nose with 7.0 grains of R.D. through my 7.5" SRH. It was a decent plinker round with reasonable offhand accuracy. This was old formula R.D. that I was burning up and was surprised to find that it left the cases fairly clean and not too bad on the grey residue left on the gun. I wouldn't push it too much harder (maybe 1/2 grain) as this is a fast powder and you can jump pressures through the roof real quick with it. Hercules book from 1992 shows 7.7 grains as max for 240 gr. soft point.

January 24, 2012, 08:13 PM	#11
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,618	Okay here my Red Dot load data for all that may be interested: .44Mag 50th Flattop 6 1/2" 6.5g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, _947fps, 11 SD, 32 ES, 15 Shots 7.0g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, _990fps, 14 SD, 45 ES, 15 Shots 7.5g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1048fps, _7 SD, 23 ES, 15 Shots 8.0g Red Dot, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1080fps, _7 SD, 24 ES, 15 Shots I've marked the 8.0g as accurate, but I think they all shot well. It was 32F at the time of test. All were loaded together (so crimp same), new Starline brass. Note I usually throw out an obvious high and/or low, but this case there was none.... So all 15 shots are accounted for in the above data! FWIW... __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

January 25, 2012, 03:31 PM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,794	Have been using Red Dot as my standard .38 SPL load (158gr@850+/-) for decades. Its a little dirty. In the bigger cases, I use Unique, because my preference for them is loads at midrange, and above. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

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