What's the market value of these SMG's?

Preacherman · December 8, 2002, 01:17 AM

I'm not a full-auto shooter myself, but I've been asked a question by a local sheriff, and wanted input from TFL'ers who are into that sort of thing.

This sheriffs dept. has several full-auto SMG's: two Thompsons, one M3, one genuine Schmeisser WWII relic, and a couple of Uzi's. All pre-date the 1986 ban, some by many decades. The department hasn't used or fired them in years - they're sitting in a glass-fronted weapons cabinet, where they amuse passers-by! The sheriff was wondering idly whether he should sell a few of them, and use the funds thus generated to upgrade equipment that sees more frequent use.

What sort of prices would he get for these weapons? They're all in pretty good condition, even the Schmeisser. I have absolutely no clue about the market for such weapons, but I told the sheriff that I'd "ask around" (= you guys!

) and get back to him.

Hkmp5sd · December 8, 2002, 01:44 AM

If they are original Thompsons they would probably go for around $13-15k each, but some unique versions can go in excess of $20k. M3 Grease gun around $3-5k. If the Uzi's are conversions, they go for about $3k. Much more if they are original SMG's. I have no idea on the Schmeisser, but I would bet a lot.

KSFreeman · December 8, 2002, 10:18 AM

Mnogo denek! (A lot of dough); depending upon Form status. PM me and I'll give you a couple of NFA dealers who will be interested.

Preach, by "Schmeisser" what the heck do you mean? The MP18 or the MP38/40 that Vollmer (not Schmeisser) designed?

Note: Schmeisser is an American misnomer. The GIs got it mixed up with other weapons (all SMGs became "Schmeissers"), sort of like now all SMGs are "Uzis." As well, "Schmeisser" just sounds really cool.

BTW, I am certain that troops from Suid Afrika never did anything such as this.

ACP230 · December 8, 2002, 10:42 AM

M3 Greasers for sale recently have been going for lots more than 3-5 K retail. (Much to my annoyance as I like them.)

If the German gun is an original MP40, or one of the variants, it might bring $6-8 thousand retail.

CleverNickname · December 8, 2002, 12:33 PM

You might be able to get some current pricing here.

guy sajer · December 8, 2002, 01:56 PM

Are they registered NFA weapons or simply govt surplus given to depts in the 40's and 50's never put on paper . The MP-40 is probably a confiscated weapon .

No papers ... no transfer ... no big money . They are simply parts if not NFA registered .

Sorry to be a wet blanket .

If they are registered , then it's a gold mine .

444 · December 8, 2002, 02:16 PM

I was just going to say, the biggest factor would be who they can be transfered to, if anybody. If they can only be tranfered to another law enforcement agency, they are not worth anywhere near the prices mentioned. If they can be sold to individual's that is another story.

I don't know the technical terms for this, maybe someone else
can chime in.

A fully transferable MP40 goes for about the same price as an M3. You can look on subguns.com and see what the asking prices are for most of that stuff. Of course more details are needed for an accurate apprasial; Thompsons vary significantly depending on what Thompson we are talking about.

DrDremel · December 8, 2002, 08:19 PM

If they are registered on a form 10 then they are worth nothing to individuals. If they are registered on a form 3 or a form 4 then they are legal for purchase by individuals. If he wants to sell them, he will get more money selling to individuals through a dealer than selling to a dealer. I have a C&R license and would be interested in the grease gun if he wants to wait a few months.

Preacherman · December 9, 2002, 10:02 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to respond to a few points, given my limited knowledge:

1. Hkmp5sd, I understand the Uzi's are not conversions, but original SMG's.

2. KSFreeman: it's an MP38/40. I have handled originals of these weapons in South Africa, and recognized it immediately. Apparently this one was brought back from WWII by a member of the SD who was "over there" for a while, and was given to the Department. Several magazines, too.

3. guy sajer (are you really a forgotten soldier???) and DrDremel: I've no idea how these guns are registered (as I said, I'm not a full-auto man myself, so this is all Greek to me). However, it's something for the sheriff to find out. If he can't sell them, at the kind of prices you guys have quoted, he's going to weep bucketsful!

I'm going to print out this entire thread and give it to my Sheriff buddy. He can take it from there. Many thanks to all of you for your advice. (And, if he does decide to, and is legally able to, sell them, I'll advise him to post here on TFL first, so that he can save on dealer commission and you guys can get first crack at them! Perhaps DrDremel can act as dealer for us???)

Hkmp5sd · December 9, 2002, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Perhaps DrDremel can act as dealer for us???

Sorry, but he is a collector, not a dealer. Still have to find a Class III dealer to handle it. Since he has a C&R and the MP38/40 is classified as both a C&R and machinegun, he can buy it directly instead of having to use a dealer.

As for what-is-what with the registration, the machineguns must have been registered with the ATF prior to 1986 in order to qualify to be sold to civilians.

Since this is a law enforcement agency, there is a good chance that these were never added to the NFA registry. When they bought them, they did not need to register them with ATF and get their permission. In '86, they banned all new machineguns from the civilian market. Only guns that were registered at the effective date of the ban, regardless of the date of manufacture or original purchase, can be transfered to a civilian.

Jake 98c/11b · December 10, 2002, 12:13 PM

If you need a dealer let me know, I have an SOT hanging off the office wall.

DrDremel · December 10, 2002, 08:00 PM

I would be happy to find buyers but I cannot deal in them. Thanks for the offer though. I would be willing to help with anything he has questions about.

KSFreeman · December 10, 2002, 08:25 PM

Preach, let us know. Always interested (darn gun nuts).

JimFromFL · December 10, 2002, 09:56 PM

Get more info (condition and model) on the Thompson and i can give you a very close estimate to market value.

dustindu4 · December 11, 2002, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Hkmp5sd, I understand the Uzi's are not conversions, but original SMG's.

If it's an original pre-68 import from IMI it's worth around 15K

December 8, 2002, 01:17 AM	#1
Preacherman Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Posts: 791	What's the market value of these SMG's? I'm not a full-auto shooter myself, but I've been asked a question by a local sheriff, and wanted input from TFL'ers who are into that sort of thing. This sheriffs dept. has several full-auto SMG's: two Thompsons, one M3, one genuine Schmeisser WWII relic, and a couple of Uzi's. All pre-date the 1986 ban, some by many decades. The department hasn't used or fired them in years - they're sitting in a glass-fronted weapons cabinet, where they amuse passers-by! The sheriff was wondering idly whether he should sell a few of them, and use the funds thus generated to upgrade equipment that sees more frequent use. What sort of prices would he get for these weapons? They're all in pretty good condition, even the Schmeisser. I have absolutely no clue about the market for such weapons, but I told the sheriff that I'd "ask around" (= you guys! ) and get back to him.

December 8, 2002, 01:44 AM	#2
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	If they are original Thompsons they would probably go for around $13-15k each, but some unique versions can go in excess of $20k. M3 Grease gun around $3-5k. If the Uzi's are conversions, they go for about $3k. Much more if they are original SMG's. I have no idea on the Schmeisser, but I would bet a lot. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

December 8, 2002, 10:18 AM	#3
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Mnogo denek! (A lot of dough); depending upon Form status. PM me and I'll give you a couple of NFA dealers who will be interested. Preach, by "Schmeisser" what the heck do you mean? The MP18 or the MP38/40 that Vollmer (not Schmeisser) designed? Note: Schmeisser is an American misnomer. The GIs got it mixed up with other weapons (all SMGs became "Schmeissers"), sort of like now all SMGs are "Uzis." As well, "Schmeisser" just sounds really cool. BTW, I am certain that troops from Suid Afrika never did anything such as this. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980). Last edited by KSFreeman; December 9, 2002 at 07:00 AM.

December 8, 2002, 10:42 AM	#4
ACP230 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 708	M3 Greasers for sale recently have been going for lots more than 3-5 K retail. (Much to my annoyance as I like them.) If the German gun is an original MP40, or one of the variants, it might bring $6-8 thousand retail. __________________ "To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.

December 10, 2002, 08:25 PM	#13
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Preach, let us know. Always interested (darn gun nuts). __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

December 8, 2002, 12:33 PM	#5
CleverNickname Member Join Date: August 3, 2002 Posts: 69	You might be able to get some current pricing here.

December 8, 2002, 01:56 PM	#6
guy sajer Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 329	Are they registered NFA weapons or simply govt surplus given to depts in the 40's and 50's never put on paper . The MP-40 is probably a confiscated weapon . No papers ... no transfer ... no big money . They are simply parts if not NFA registered . Sorry to be a wet blanket . If they are registered , then it's a gold mine .

December 8, 2002, 02:16 PM	#7
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	I was just going to say, the biggest factor would be who they can be transfered to, if anybody. If they can only be tranfered to another law enforcement agency, they are not worth anywhere near the prices mentioned. If they can be sold to individual's that is another story. I don't know the technical terms for this, maybe someone else can chime in. A fully transferable MP40 goes for about the same price as an M3. You can look on subguns.com and see what the asking prices are for most of that stuff. Of course more details are needed for an accurate apprasial; Thompsons vary significantly depending on what Thompson we are talking about.

December 8, 2002, 08:19 PM	#8
DrDremel Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 68	If they are registered on a form 10 then they are worth nothing to individuals. If they are registered on a form 3 or a form 4 then they are legal for purchase by individuals. If he wants to sell them, he will get more money selling to individuals through a dealer than selling to a dealer. I have a C&R license and would be interested in the grease gun if he wants to wait a few months.

December 9, 2002, 10:02 AM	#9
Preacherman Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Posts: 791	Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to respond to a few points, given my limited knowledge: 1. Hkmp5sd, I understand the Uzi's are not conversions, but original SMG's. 2. KSFreeman: it's an MP38/40. I have handled originals of these weapons in South Africa, and recognized it immediately. Apparently this one was brought back from WWII by a member of the SD who was "over there" for a while, and was given to the Department. Several magazines, too. 3. guy sajer (are you really a forgotten soldier???) and DrDremel: I've no idea how these guns are registered (as I said, I'm not a full-auto man myself, so this is all Greek to me). However, it's something for the sheriff to find out. If he can't sell them, at the kind of prices you guys have quoted, he's going to weep bucketsful! I'm going to print out this entire thread and give it to my Sheriff buddy. He can take it from there. Many thanks to all of you for your advice. (And, if he does decide to, and is legally able to, sell them, I'll advise him to post here on TFL first, so that he can save on dealer commission and you guys can get first crack at them! Perhaps DrDremel can act as dealer for us???)

December 10, 2002, 12:13 PM	#11
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	If you need a dealer let me know, I have an SOT hanging off the office wall.

December 10, 2002, 08:00 PM	#12
DrDremel Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 68	I would be happy to find buyers but I cannot deal in them. Thanks for the offer though. I would be willing to help with anything he has questions about.

December 10, 2002, 09:56 PM	#14
JimFromFL Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 185	Get more info (condition and model) on the Thompson and i can give you a very close estimate to market value.