glock 40 problem

[jjcbuck]

I have suddenly encountered a problem with Glock 40 loads. Slide hangs up on almost every round. A slap on the mag sends the slide into battery. New recoil spring, proper seating depth, col correct, mouth & base spec correct, and a new magazine! Been using this gun for years - same reloads for years. Bullet appears to be hanging up on ramp and I don't know why. Any suggestions?

[Sarge]

Something has changed. I'd recheck each step of my reloading setup as it relates to COAL and crimp.

[jjcbuck]

I will recheck crimp - coal is fine. I am cautious re: crimp on the 40 load. Too firm is not good. I have found that on a few of the rounds that did not go into battery the bullet had been pushed deeper as a result of hitting the ramp. It may be possible that the crimp is not firm enough and allowing the bullet to move instead of going into battery???

Thank you

[Idaho Spud]

Is your chamber clean and free of rust or corrosion? Using cast bullets? Maybe lead/carbon build-up toward front of the chamber where the rounds headspace?

edit - Forget what I said, you're not even getting into the chamber. Sorry.

[Sarge]

If your bullets are deep seating on the feed ramp, you need more crimp. The deep seating of the bullet robs the cartridge of feed inertia and you can run into pressure problems damn quick. I have never set crimp by case mouth diameter. There is simply too much variation in case mouth thickness among the menagerie of range pick-up brass that I use.

Instead, I try to identify my loosest cases and set the crimp to hold firmly with those. To test this, I take a loaded round, measure the COAL and write it down. Then I push it against the reloading bench with what I estimate to be 10-12 pounds of force, for a ten count. If the bullet moves I crank up the crimp until it stops. I've never had trouble getting rounds so loaded to feed or shoot well.

Glock factory chamber dimensions are generous, aftermarket barrels tend to run tighter.

[WESHOOT2]

Could you please describe fully your load?
Can you be specific as to components and measurements?

Have you made ANY changes to the gun recently, or cleaned it right before your issue?


There are not many reasons a 40 Glock won't return to battery.....

[ligonierbill]

New magazine - could this be your problem? Even the best makers turn out defects sometimes. Do you have a different mag to try, everything else the same?

[jjcbuck]

Thanks for the suggestions Sarge. I have always been reluctant to crimp too tightly for fear of creating high pressure. Am I correct in that assumption?

To clarify: I use mostly Win, Rem, and Federal brass. A few others get mixed in at the range but I'd say brass is a non-issue.
My load is 5.8gr. WST; a 200gr. Xtreme plated round nose flat point bullet; Win. CCI or Federal primers.
The problem occurs with all mags - I mentioned "new" to clarify it wasn't a worn out mag problem.
The gun is kept clean and in good running order. It has approx. 17,000 rounds through it. Last tune-up was about 2,000 rounds ago and the problem has just shown up in the last month. Prior to that I have had zero problems other than replacing a few components that simply wore out.
I'm leaning toward Sarge's suggestion. I'm suspicious that my last batch of reloads may be at fault. I will check that batch and also load a couple dozen increasing the crimp and see what I find.
Thanks again.

PS - WESHOOT2 - "Caspian country" - I have a custom made 1911 on a Caspian Commander frame and Caspian slide that I love!

[Sarge]

I'd say you're a lot more likely to have pressure problems from a lack of crimp, rather than too much of it. 'Too much' and you may deform your bullet a tad; but I've never had a problem running them real snug. I run the crimp on my lead-bullet loads so snug that it sets the case mouth into the bullet just a froghair. You can sure feel them bump when you run them through the crimping die.

Truthfully, the proper amount of crimp is 'just enough' to keep the bullet from moving during a single feed cycle. In my imperfect world, that means plenty and a little more. YMMV.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

My load is 5.8gr. WST; a 200gr. Xtreme plated round nose flat point bullet.

Seems a little hot to me for .40 cal loads! I understand your using the extreme plated which are considered good at jacketed speeds and pressures but your a full grain over the data charts.

200 GR. HDY XTP Winchester WSF .400" 1.125" 4.4 786 27,300 PSI 4.8 867 33,100 PSI

Have you been running his load the whole time?

[jjcbuck]

Wreck-n-Crew - Oops - sorry, I gave the wrong description of the bullet. I shoot a 180 gr. Xtreme plated round nose flat point. A very reliable bullet and load for a lot of years.

Sarge - thanks again for your input. I believe my 40 headspaces on the mouth of the case so I have to be careful not to crimp into the bullet. I will be working on some new loads over the next few days and try increasing the crimp. I'll make a new post when I've had opportunity to try it. YMMV?????

[Sarge]

"Your Mileage May Vary"

Run a set of mics over a half dozen of those plated bullets, when you get a chance. I'd expect them to run .401" (like any lead bullet would) but if they're much over that, it may be the root of your problem.

You're welcome & please keep us posted.

[Strafer Gott]

Not to get a rampage going here, but anything for a Glock gets run through the dreaded Lee factory crimp die. I seat them per normal with normal crimp just where the die closes the belled mouth. 95% are probably good to go with that. Then I run them through the factory crimp. You feel the slighest bump on most rounds, but every now and then you find one that gives a little more feedback. Those get corrected by the die and you are golden. I like slower powders like Bluedot, and a good crimp helps get the pressure up for a cleaner burn. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who uses Lee FCD for their Glock fodder.

[WESHOOT2]

Three things: Sized case fit the chamber?

OAL too long (I use 1.130"+/-.005")?

Over-crimped?

[totaldla]

I missed where you mentioned the col. And I missed where you measured the taper crimp used.

[totalloser]

Sounds like a weak load to me. I'd double check powder measure. New bottle of powder needs a fresh workup too.

I'd forget the brass as an issue personally. I have *never* had a problem from range brass and I have run all flavors and some naaaaasty stuff though my g22 and g27 with zero problems. Well except for the occasional split neck.

Also- bullet weight discrepancy can cause trouble too. Putting a lighter bullet in a load worked up for a heavier bullet may cause cycling woes. But again, any new components really should have a fresh workup.

[bt380]

Try the easy stuff first using known goods. Unless you have already tried, I'd buy a box of factory ammo that you know works. If they hang up, wipe off your slide and metal/metal surfaces after inspecting them all for rubs, and place easy to see grease (like that red shooters grease) on the slide surfaces and the metal/metal surfaces. Fire one round. Then look with magnifying glass at all the contact surfaces to see something out of place. If the gun has been fired a ton, you maybe have worn down a surface area that is causing another area to hang up or slow the timing down to cause the hang up. If you have a friend w/ the same gun that like to trouble shoot problems, go to the range an swap the entire slide and you each try to see if problem follows or stays. If not, then start piece by piece replacing your parts until the problem fails.

[chris in va]

That's a really hot load. Might want to back that off a bit, and as suggested get a FCD.

[Sevens]

If you have a situation where your bullet is getting inadvertently stuffed deeper in to the case during the normal feeding process in normal operation of the gun...
You've got a serious, serious problem. This is not a small issue, and in .40 S&W, this is pure recipe for disaster.
And you shouldn't be trying to "fix" this problem with "crimp."

The problem is one of brass that isn't being sized down to spec, or the brass isn't holding that spec, or the bullets are slim and not compatible with the brass.

I'd start by ensure that the sizing die is doing it's job properly and sizing the brass down. Size a piece and ensure that you can't slip a .40cal projectile in to a non-flared piece of brass. At all.

Then ensure your case mouth flaring die is imparting the absolute MINIMUM of flare to the case mouth. Just enough to allow you to seat a bullet without distorting the brass. Too much mouth flaring and you're destroying the case's ability to hold a bullet properly.

Then, ensure that your seat/crimp die is NOT attempting to impart some radical, harsh crimp. That's the quickest way to screw up the round. In fact, I'd screw that die -WELL- out of the press an ensure that it is (for the moment) imparting absolutely no crimp whatsoever of any manner.

Seat a bullet with -ZERO- "crimp."

With this round, it may not chamber because the taper crimp (which we skipped) merely removes the belling or flaring of the case mouth.
Let's not worry about it chambering just yet.

This round we made with NO CRIMP should hold that bullet good and solid. Squeezing it between thumb/index finger should -NOT- sink that bullet deeper in the case. I like to take the loaded round and push it in to the edge of my load bench (moderately) to ensure it would slide deeper in to the case.

If we are now certain that we have good, proper grip on that bullet, let's check it in the gun's chamber. With the barrel out of the pistol, drop that round in. Without any taper crimp applied, there's a good chance it won't chamber. But it might, depending on how much flaring we did and depending on the dimensions of your chamber.

It's important to understand that the TAPER CRIMP in a .40 S&W seat/crimp die does not, nor was ever intended to impart a "bullet holding crimp" on a loaded round. The taper crimp is to remove the belling from the earlier step and finish the profile of the round.

The bullet is held in place NOT WITH CRIMP, but with proper case mouth tension. We get proper tension with proper sizing, barely any flaring, and a bullet that works in the round.

After we've ensured that the bullet is held firmly in that brass, only then should we worry about applying our taper crimp. And our taper crimp should be slight, just as little as you can apply, to make the round fit the chamber.

This is -NOT- a roll crimp like we make for .357 or .44 Magnum. It doesn't roll the case mouth in to a cannelure to grip the bullet. We NEED that case mouth because the semi-auto design head spaces on that case mouth!

[Sevens]

I have run in to some situations where I simply can't get the case mouth grip that I need for the confidence for good, safe loads.

I typically find fault with the brass -- certain brands/head stamps in certain calibers simply offer less than others. I find them and I work specifically around them.

The problem is absolutely exacerbated with certain bullets that are manufactured on the slender side. It doesn't take much to make a difference.

Real-world examples? R-P headstamp brass in 10mm is very bad in this regard, and nickel plated R-P10mm brass is the worse. I can use this brass with cast lead in 10mm, and "MANY" of the pieces will work "okay" with Precision Delta or Zero slugs, but some of them simply don't give me the case mouth tension/bullet grip I need. So I don't use them.

Try and use that brass with the beautiful, quality, expensive but SLENDER Nosler jacketed bullets and I end up with unsafe handloads with poor case mouth tension.

I also have trouble with R-P head stamp .380 brass in combination with Berry's plated slugs.

I do use a lot of R-P brass in other calibers, but it's my least favorite and I find it to have the thinnest case mouths in the industry... which compromises bullet grip/case mouth tension.

[jjcbuck]

Sevens - I appreciate your input and I will reset my dies and start from scratch. I have always been careful with crimp on my auto pistol loads (.380,.9mm,.40 and .45). As mentioned above, I have been using these rounds for six -seven years with no problems, so this is a little frustrating. I'm sure I'll safely get to the bottom of it.

Thanks again.

[PhantomI]

Did you have the slide release out recently? I encountered the same problem with factory loads. The spring was not properly routed. Just a thought.

[jjcbuck]

No - slide release is not the problem. Rounds are hanging up before the slide gets that far.

[Brian Pfleuger]

New recoil spring?

My Glock 33 does this with an extra power Wolf recoil spring and factory ammo. Slide isn't going back far enough to get enough momentum to push the round up the ramp, I guess, though I'd have thought that the extra spring power would take care of that. Apparently not. It does it nearly every shot.

[Chili Palmer]

I am the only one in this room that I know of that is professional enough to carry this Glock 40. BOOM.