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Old November 25, 2011, 05:48 PM   #1
Orochimaru
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Indoor Range Etiquette

I had a mildly irritating, and yet at the same time mildly amusing situation happen to me at a local indoor range recently. I wanted to share it and see what others say about it.

I reload for everything I shoot except 22LR. If there was a cost-effective way to reload rimfire ammunition, I'd probably reload that, too. Of course, my goal when I go to the range is to preserve as much of my brass as is safe and possible to retrieve. Many times, others there who do not reload will offer me their brass. I always thank them and offer to sweep it up, etc.

If someone else is there shooting and saving their brass, I make it a point to try to give them as much of their own stuff back as possible. I have found that most people reciprocate this... until this fellow I ran in to recently.

He was on the lane adjacent to mine, and we happened to be firing the same caliber. I didn't seem to be collecting as much of my own brass as I should have been. Every magazine, a few cases would be missing... As time passed, it became obvious that he was waiting for me to load up and shoot, then he would reach over into my lane with the broom to collect his *and* as much of my brass as he could reach without getting caught. The only stuff that was truly safe from him was the stuff that he couldn't reach because I was standing in my booth!

Now -- I'm not going to kick off an international incident over a few pieces of brass to a common caliber firearm. I have plenty, and can afford to buy more if needed. However, the principle of the thing kinda bothered me. Rather than raising a stink, I just shifted tactics. I shifted to 22LR and fed him a steady diet of nothing reloadable until he packed up and left. I then switched back to brass and amazingly didn't "lose" any more pieces!

Like I said, amusing and annoying at the same time...
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Old November 25, 2011, 06:00 PM   #2
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I've not had that problem, but I have military marksmanship unit members accidentally collect my brass with theirs when the command to police brass was given. They were new and weren't cognizant of the value of the stuff for reloaders. As soon as I told them mine had "white" primers they tossed it all to me.

A common thing at matches is to use felt markers to put your own personal colors on the head of each case. Then just ask to get back all those that have that. In this instance, though, I have to wonder if he'd honor it? It sounds like intentional stealing. I'd have mentioned it to whoever runs the place.
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Old November 25, 2011, 06:36 PM   #3
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First of all great job on the way you handled the situation. I haven't had that problem. We don't have any ranges like that any where near me. There is a public outdoor range that I don't like to go to because it can be very unsafe at times. The only other option is a private club. I went the club route. Very safe and I will lose a few pieces of brass once in a while but not because somebody took it.
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Old November 25, 2011, 06:43 PM   #4
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I've had that happen as well. I used a little different tactic. When I picked up my brass, I asked the offender if I had any of his brass? Then I asked if he had any of mine. Worked well, he was gracious.
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Old November 25, 2011, 07:48 PM   #5
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If it were me, I'd only shoot a revolver at indoor ranges.
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Old November 25, 2011, 07:54 PM   #6
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I was amused on one hand and irritated on the other. Switching calibers "solved" the problem, but it didn't point out or correct his behavior. Quite frankly, I thought it took a fair amount of nerve. But, like I said, it was common stuff and just not worth mentioning. Had it been some of the oddball rifle brass that I reload, I probably wouldn't have been so patient.

This is really the first time that anything like this has happened to me. Most of the time, brass is shared and swapped quite equitably. Very frequently, it spills over into reloading conversation, too.

Oh well... No damage done!
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Old November 25, 2011, 08:11 PM   #7
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I surely would have confronted him, most guys at my range would not do such a thing. I might be afraid that a gun or something of more value might come up missing. After all stealing is stealing.
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Old November 25, 2011, 08:29 PM   #8
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Before I pick up brass at a range, I ask the persons in adjacent shooting positions if they're saving theirs. If they answer in the affirmative we work out the details of what we're each shooting to keep everyone happy. If they say no then I figure anything on the ground near my shooting position is mine.

I would expect any other reasonably polite/moral/ethical person to offer me (or other shooters) the same courtesy.
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Old November 25, 2011, 09:25 PM   #9
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If I want someone else's brass I ask if they reload and if they mind if I police their brass. If they don't I make sure I clean their stall for them, so they can just shoot and leave. Usually they are happy with the deal. The two indoor ranges I shot at were all caliber. I often took a Mosin M-44 or a 18" 12ga with me. That's how I got rid of annoying neighbors, most packed up and left within a clip or two from the Mosin.
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Old November 25, 2011, 10:45 PM   #10
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I hate policing brass...
I caught one of the RSO's at our outdoor range picking up my brass when I went to change targets when the line went cold. Said he didn't know I was keeping my brass...how about asking, first!

Not an issue with bolt guns, but the AR's sling it everywhere. At least with my son's 6.5 Grendel, there's never another one on the line.
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Old November 25, 2011, 11:16 PM   #11
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I understand exactly where you are coming from. I use to shoot plate matches. Where I competed we shot 2 at a time standing 10’ apart at 2 sets of plates. Everyone and I mean everyone would pick up brass after each round. We just picked up everything we saw on the floor then when we were off the range we’d see whose was whose. Those of us shooting the same caliber would mark the base of our brass with different colored Marks A Lots. My color was blue. Even new comers would catch on to this the very first time they shot.

Guy showed up one night, never saw him before or after, with his brass marked black. He stole every piece of my brass he picked up. I even asked, “don’t some of those have blue bases”? No! I shot against him three times and put him out of the match.

Like you, it wasn’t the brass, I have tons, it was the principle.
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Old November 25, 2011, 11:56 PM   #12
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Where I lose most of my brass to outright STEALING on indoor ranges is when the otherwise entirely uninvolved RO runs around behind me, near me, dang near ON TOP OF ME with his broom or "range floor squeegie" and gathers up my brass. If you even look or ask them about it, it's becomes a "safety issue" and they don't want anyone to trip on it.

I combat this problem in four ways.
1) Only shoot indoors during the coldest months of the years
2) Shoot a lot of rimfire
3) Shoot a lot of revolver
4) Shoot a lot of 9mm, where I have plenty of brass and couldn't ever run out

I also lose my share of it forward of the firing line which I'm sure the range counts on, but I certainly understand safety issues in regards to that.

Indoor ranges are not my first choice to go shooting. (interestingly enough, I do tend to shoot fairly well at them)
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Old November 26, 2011, 12:19 AM   #13
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The only indoor range in our area has a big sign posted that says you can't pick up your brass.

I don't shoot there.
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Old November 26, 2011, 01:09 AM   #14
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Funny, to me anyway, unrelated story. I wanted to check my sight after changing the battery and didn't feel like driving 20 miles so I deside to go close to home. Guy, deceased now, used to own an indoor range near me. Went in for the first time. Read the rules. No rapid fire yada yada yada. Put out a paper plate. Fire three shots. S L O W L Y! Wife says guy is banging on glass wants me. I go out to see what he wants. “You can’t shoot paper plates”. Ok! What can I shoot? Points to “paper” target. Ok! What’s the difference? “Paper plates are too hard to clean up.” I go back out pick up my stuff. Come back out. What do I owe you? Nothing! Ok thank you good bye.

New owner doesn’t care what type of target you shoot as long as it’s safe or how fast you shoot.
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Old November 26, 2011, 08:18 AM   #15
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I've gotten the kibosh on my paper plates also. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they are too hard to clean up either. In reality, the paper that gets munched up in to confetti is of a heavier stock than targets, so I would think it'd be much easier to clean up, with real chunks of paper and not so much tiny bits of minced paper.

I think it has more to do with selling paper targets but I'm willing to hear any rational argument that points out something I've missed.
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Old November 26, 2011, 09:26 AM   #16
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I am pretty sure you are right.
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Old November 26, 2011, 11:47 AM   #17
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I have so much brass that I do not even pick it up if I am shooting at a different range than I normaly shoot at. If I am at the range that I am a member of, and some one is picking up my brass I thank them for saving me socme space at home. Last time I was there the range manager saw me picking the bucket, and told me to make sure I leave the bucket.


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Old November 26, 2011, 12:16 PM   #18
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I would have had to say something. Where I shoot, there's no shortage of brass around for someone to scrounge. Thus no reason for mine to be fair game.
A brass catcher might be in order for a range that doesn't let you pick up your empties. Seems to me, if it doesn't hit the floor, they have no claim on it.
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Old November 26, 2011, 02:31 PM   #19
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First off I would never shoot at any range that keeps my brass. It is mine, If they are charging you to shoot there then they have no claim on my property. If it is a free range, we have one near here, except you are supposed to buy the ammo you shoot from them, it is still my brass. I only shoot at a club I am a member of. They put up these neat screens that catch 95% of the brass unless you have one of those guns that throws it forward or backward.

I think I would have told the brass stealer to wait until I leave, then he could have anything I left. People like that never take a hint though so it would have been wasted breath. Better to just be blunt and say "Hey buddy, that is my brass you are picking up" .

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Old November 26, 2011, 02:42 PM   #20
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Does Cabelas sell round targets, perchance?

Quote:
Jerry45
“You can’t shoot paper plates”. Ok! What can I shoot?
My reply would be, "Of course I can. See the little holes?"

As far as Sevens thought, I wonder if the range would mind bringing in your own paper targets? Or would privately owned paper targets be also harder to clean up than official "Range supplied" paper?

Or is the range official simply some kind of martinet?

I think it would encourage me to print up some paper plates with targets on them, a publisher's logo and a copyright notice and claim them to be actual shooting targets. I would probably also print on them in small type "Not suitable for food." Then see how those non-plate "official" targets passed muster. (Or would that be mustard?)

There is no end to silliness with some people.

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Old November 26, 2011, 07:42 PM   #21
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I once had a range officer tell me that paper plates weren't allowed because they had so many new shooters bring them in as targets and tape them up inadequately. The "cleanup problem" was really that they didn't like all those paper plates littering the range floor.

Take it with 1.0 grains of salt.
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Old November 26, 2011, 08:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
A common thing at matches is to use felt markers to put your own personal colors on the head of each case. Then just ask to get back all those that have that.
I do the opposite at our indoor range. When I do the "firing line" thing, I always bring brass that I mark specifically because I don't want it after firing. Usually this is because I don't get that satisfying squishy feeling when seating the primer on the up stroke on my Dillon XL650. If I feel no or little resistance, I mark it while it's still on the shell plate before the bullet is seated.

I don't pick up any brass at these sessions, but just shoot the ones I don't want. All the regulars there know that my marked brass is best put in the recycling bucket along with the .22 casings.

During indoor IPSC practices that we have once a week, we just equally split the brass up among us reloaders at the end once everything is put away and all the brass is swept up into a big pile against the wall. Because not everyone at these practices reloads and because some leave early, we always leave with more brass than we've shot.

At matches here, it's customary to leave your brass for those who have volunteered to tear down and clean up. Plus our IPSC matches at the indoor range happen only once a month, are just level 1 matches, and rarely involve more than 120 rounds, so it's not any loss that anyone would fret about.
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Old November 27, 2011, 09:02 AM   #23
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I have ran into this also. If someone is shooting the same caliber close to me, I will normally switch to another, or to .22. I HATE to lose brass, but almost always leave with several times what I lose. (And I an NOT the guy the OP posted about!)
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Old November 27, 2011, 12:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
(And I an NOT the guy the OP posted about!)
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Old November 27, 2011, 12:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Take it with 1.0 grains of salt.
What powder measure did you use?? (LOL)

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