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June 30, 2009, 02:22 PM | #76 | |||||
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It has been described as a "complex" case. All we know is that a storeowner went to his place of business after an alarm was triggered, saw someone inside who had entered unlawfully, and fatally shot the man from outside. He says he thought he saw a gun, but he didn't. The charging authority could decide to accept is story. He would still be exposed to civil claims. He could be charged criminally and taken to trial court. The trial could result in an acquittal or conviction. Even in the event of the former, he could be bankrupt or perhaps nearly so. In the event of the latter, he will have lost not only his fortune but also his clean record, his right to ever own a gun, and potentially, his personal freedom for some period of time. Had he been inside his place of business in a state in which he castle doctrine extends to those premises at the time when the criminal broke in, he would undoubtedly have an easier time of it. But that's not what happened. He went to his place of business to check out the alarm, saw someone inside, and fired from outside the premises. He had the option of calling the police before approaching. He is apparently basing his case on his statement that he believed that the perp was pointing a gun. But isn't that just what every last killer in the country would claim? Who knows how it will turn out? But one can assume with a high degree of confidence that the storeowner hand his family would be better off now and probably in the future had he not fired his weapon, or if his story is true, if he had kept his distance until the perp had been caught and rendered harmless. |
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June 30, 2009, 02:30 PM | #77 | |
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WilditsaninterestingsubjectAlaska ™ May I suggest "Crime and Punishment in Eighteenth Century England (http://www.amazon.com/Crime-Punishme...6388883&sr=1-1) as a starting point |
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June 30, 2009, 02:31 PM | #78 | |
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I refuse to blame the victim. The one at blame here is the criminal who broke in to the business. Had he chosen to be a law abiding citizen instead of choosing to be a thief and parasite upon society, he would probably still be alive today. |
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June 30, 2009, 02:33 PM | #79 | |
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WildbutheythisgoingfarafieldAlaska ™ |
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June 30, 2009, 02:35 PM | #80 |
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One Other Possibility
I mentioned the possibilities of a decision to not charge, a trial resulting in acquittal, and conviction.
Of course, as in the Oregon case involving someone who had entered a house uninvited , there could also be a case of plea bargaining, where the storeowner agrees to plead guilty to a lesser offense than that listed in the state's charge. Could be a year before we know. |
June 30, 2009, 02:37 PM | #81 | |
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June 30, 2009, 02:38 PM | #82 | ||
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Seriously, if at first you don't succeed, try again. Just because it failed once does not mean that it would fail again. It this was the case we wouldn't have guns, planes, trains, cars, light bulbs, computers, etc....all of these things failed numerous times before they became viable. The biggest challenge would be overcoming those like yourself, who clearly sympathize with the criminal element. |
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June 30, 2009, 02:39 PM | #83 | |
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Once that trigger is pulled everyone is a victim. WildwhichiswhyitshouldbeviewedasthelastresortAlaska ™ |
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June 30, 2009, 02:43 PM | #84 | |||
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It did take up hours/days/weeks of my time however. Last edited by easyG; June 30, 2009 at 02:49 PM. |
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June 30, 2009, 02:47 PM | #85 | ||
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He was preyed upon my a thief and a parasite on our society. Why do you insist upon blaming those whom the criminals prey upon? Quote:
Did you get that one from Tyra banks or Oprah? |
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June 30, 2009, 02:48 PM | #86 | |
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I'll bet your case didn't include an unarmed man who with whom you were not even in the same building and who had done nothing more serious than a simple break-in.
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June 30, 2009, 02:50 PM | #87 | |
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June 30, 2009, 02:55 PM | #88 | |
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June 30, 2009, 02:56 PM | #89 | |
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An officer that was conducting a SD training here bluntly stated to us, " once you pull the trigger you can kiss your house, car, job and probably your marriage goodbye. Even if you clear the grand jury, you'll be sued by the family and the legal fees will take everything - even in a good shoot" His intent was to impress on us the magnitude of the consequences of pulling the trigger, and he was correct. I am with Wild and Peetza on this one 100%
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June 30, 2009, 03:00 PM | #90 | |
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However, should the Virginia authorities and grand jury conclude that the storeowner's use of deadly force was unlawful under the circumstances, the storeowner will be identified as the defendant, and the burglar (if that's what he was), as the victim. That will be the case in the indictment, in the trial court, in any sentencing hearings or pronouncements, and if it comes to that, in any appeals of a conviction. Should things go poorly enough for the storeowner, he may also be known as the convict and as the prisoner. But the dead man, properly called by you and me as the crook, the burglar, the perp, etc. will forever be known, for purposes of this case, as the victim. And it's possible that is family will be known as the plaintiffs. |
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June 30, 2009, 03:00 PM | #91 | |
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Do a little searching of the news were gun owners made justified shootings and you will discover that what the SD training officer told you is simply not true. |
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June 30, 2009, 03:08 PM | #92 |
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I disagree. He wasnt that too far off. There will surely be monetary, as well as "other", costs ... whether it was a "just" shoot or otherwise.
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June 30, 2009, 03:10 PM | #93 | |
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If so, how much did it cost you? Did you spend 10's of thousands of dollars in legal defense? Were you sued for thousands of dollars? Did it take years and years to resolve the matter? Did you lose you home and your wife? |
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June 30, 2009, 03:11 PM | #94 | ||
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The entirely accurate assumption that your shooting was completely without legal question... Quote:
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June 30, 2009, 03:17 PM | #95 | ||||
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June 30, 2009, 03:43 PM | #96 | |
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LOL...I cant believe a guy like you watches that stuff WildwhennotshootingpeopleandchestthumpinonthenetAlaska ™ |
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June 30, 2009, 03:46 PM | #97 | |
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June 30, 2009, 04:12 PM | #98 | ||
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Last edited by Creature; June 30, 2009 at 04:17 PM. |
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June 30, 2009, 04:16 PM | #99 |
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If you have a justifiable shoot in a SD situation, the DA does not file charges, here in Texas. You were justified.
No when people defend themselves with a firearm they do not lose their butts in legal fees unless it was a questionable shoot. Don't get in a questionable shoot. Wildalaska. Do you only sell guns to people that assure you that they will COWER? I mean you work a big ole gun store. I doubt more than 1/4 of the people that come in there believe in incorporating COWERING in their SD. So you sell guns from your store to chest thumping bloodthirsty murdering criminals right? Cowering is not a tactic that I ever heard of used in training. |
June 30, 2009, 04:24 PM | #100 | |
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