Interesting 12g shells?

joeranger · August 30, 2011, 02:06 PM

I used to get a catalog of survival/surplus gear that I loved looking at. All the stuff you would never buy but deep down you really want it even though it would collect dust. They had a whole page of "silly" shotgun rounds; bolo, flamethrower, flachette, lead dust.
I know there are legitimate "bird/retort" rounds farmers use for scaring flocks out of cornfields and signal rounds for boats. Are there any other interesting specific use shells. I am not looking for "In case of zombie" shells, just miss looking at the different ones.
Might be good to mention that I think there are some legalities to consider with some "special use" shells.

Murrdock · August 30, 2011, 03:29 PM

Rubber slugs, Bean Bag rounds, thermite rounds, take your pick. All would be nifty to try, but probably cost quite a bit more than the average shell (a few dollars compared to .20 per shell)

Hardcase · August 30, 2011, 03:30 PM

When I was a kid, the local rumor was that one of the ranchers had two barrels loaded with rock salt for us youngsters that didn't know any better about scaring the cattle.

I never found out, though, and the ranch is a subdivision now.

dickttx · August 30, 2011, 05:08 PM

Always heard about the salt to protect the watermelon patch!!!

pvt.Long · August 30, 2011, 05:14 PM

reload with rock salt. its great for a bird varmit or trespasser deterrent. its the cheapest reload. use it on the ranch all the time.

darkgael · August 30, 2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

reload with rock salt. its great for a bird varmit or trespasser deterrent. its the cheapest reload. use it on the ranch all the time.

Q. - What effect does the salt have on the barrel?
Pete

Lee Lapin · August 30, 2011, 08:36 PM

Salt causes rust. That's a given.

Another problem with salt... it's hygroscopic. That means it soaks in water out of the humidity in the air. When it does that it turns into clumps. With rock salt there's always the possibility you'll wind up shooting the salt equivalent of buckshot or slugs, and killing someone or something. We say over and over again - anything, and that means ANYTHING, fired out of a shotgun CAN BE LETHAL, and that includes even blanks.

Forget about rock salt, or the idea of ANY "nonlethal" or "less lethal" or any other kind of rubber buckshot shotgun shell or the like. No matter what it's loaded with, firing a shotgun constitutes use of lethal force. You as an armed citizen need to be completely legally justified in using lethal force if you shoot ANYTHING out of a shotgun at another human being.

And forget about the other "novelty" stuff too, unless you just want more range toys to play with.

"Bird bombs" or cracker shells work well for their intended purpose, scaring away birds or other nuisance critters. There was a news story last week, though, about a guard at an oil field on the North Slope in Alaska who got in trouble with the Federal government for mistakenly shooting a nuisance polar bear with a cracker shell instead of the bean bag round he had intended to use, and killing it. Once again - ANYTHING fired out of a shotgun can be lethal.

Flares are meant for flare pistols or in a pinch, CYLINDER CHOKED riot barreled shotguns. Flares occasionally get stuck in chokes in shotgun barrels, and if one does then you get to watch the end of your shotgun barrel glow red as the stuck flare burns itself out in your barrel. Probably don't want to do that...

"Dust busters" or breaching rounds are intended for that exact purpose - breaching doors, by blowing off locks and/or hinges while posing a reduced level of danger to anyone inside the building. They work pretty well for that. But I have been told for a fact that they too are lethal if used against a human being. Again, they're something not really useful to the ordinary armed citizen, who isn't likely going to have a string of well trained friends on hand to set up a stack, or a legitimate reason to breach a door and clear a room.

There's a lot of other stuff out there besides the usual birdshot, buckshot and slugs. There's at least one company making a 'buck and ball' round in 12 gauge, they also make a load that fires two big round 'punkin balls' at once. Another company makes a 3" load with three bore size hard lead punkin balls. If I were packing a marine finish pumpgun on board a boat offshore, I'd have to do some experimenting with those loads.

There are more and more different kinds of slugs showing up on the market. One newer offering from Europe is made of steel, which might be useful for big game hunters in areas where lead projectiles are not allowed. And at least one US company is offering a sabot slug made of copper, which would meet the same lead-free requirement.

A certain number of folks have ideas about getting a shotgun bandolier, and loading it up bandito style with two or five of every different kind of shotgun shell out there "just in case they need" whatever. Well, it might sound good in theory but chances are it isn't going to work out well in practice. It's pretty easy to keep things sorted out just kicking around on the flat range. Under pressure though, who knows what's likely to get stuffed into the shotgun. Find a way to carry extra ammunition that keeps it clearly segregated and easy to find what you want without having to look, and if you choose ammo that lets you easily FEEL the difference (star crimped buckshot and roll crimped slugs, for instance) so much the better.

Remember that security guard and the polar bear? Murphy loves ya, baby.

Best approach to shotgun ammo is KISS - keep it simple and sure. Narrow things down to a manageable assortment of loads, two at the maximum - one kind of buckshot and one kind of slug, for example. Keep buckshot only in the magazine and slugs only in the butt cuff or Sidesaddle, if your situation allows those choices of course. Or just use slugs and be done with it, again if your situation allows it. Otherwise choose a different kind or kinds of defensive ammunition, based on your particular circumstances. Don't 'candy cane' or 'dutch load' your magazine, because you need to know for certain sure what will be coming out of that muzzle when you press the trigger.

Or not...

fwiw,

lpl

joeranger · September 1, 2011, 10:56 AM

Just a quick fyi, I did look up legalities in Il. They must have read the same catalog

These are no-nos.
Dragon's Breath Shotgun Shell: Any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric mesh metal as the
projectile and is designed for the purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flamethrower.
Bolo Shell: Any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels as projectiles 2 or more metal balls connected
by solid metal wire.
Flechette Shell: Any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels 2 or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid
metal wire or 2 or more solid dart-type projectiles.

Technosavant · September 1, 2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

"Bird bombs" or cracker shells work well for their intended purpose, scaring away birds or other nuisance critters. There was a news story last week, though, about a guard at an oil field on the North Slope in Alaska who got in trouble with the Federal government for mistakenly shooting a nuisance polar bear with a cracker shell instead of the bean bag round he had intended to use, and killing it. Once again - ANYTHING fired out of a shotgun can be lethal.

There's a reason they sell brightly colored shotgun furniture kits intended for guns dedicated to less lethal loads. It's so they don't run the risk of loading an outright lethal round when they thought they were loading a less lethal round and vice versa. If a person wants to use specialty type rounds for a given purpose, I'd recommend getting a cheap Walmart 870 Express or other inexpensive gun and making it VERY visually distincting (pink Krylon, whatever) so you know what you're grabbing when you grab it.

But then, I also agree that the average joe has very little need for those kinds of rounds. The legal system doesn't especially care that you loaded a beanbag round if the shooting wasn't justified. If the shooting IS justified, then you want something that's going to definitely stop the thread right this moment, not something that might well get you killed (if they're shooting live ammo back at you, you may not get a chance to switch over, or the less lethal stuff just makes the assailant angrier).

C0untZer0 · September 1, 2011, 12:59 PM

They don't sell these but I think since we are talking about crazy stuff, I should mention cut shells.

Which I have heard referred to as 70 cal Glaser Safey Slug

HShack · September 1, 2011, 02:00 PM

About 40 yrs. ago, I bought a box of 12 ga. TRACER #8 shotshells. Haven'tseen any since.

Doyle · September 1, 2011, 02:06 PM

One manufacture is starting to produce a modern version of the tracer. It was discussed on this forum several months ago. Instead of phosphorus, it uses cylume chemical. The intended purpose is as a training shell for skeet/trap shooting to show if a shooter is leading the target properly.

pvt.Long · September 1, 2011, 02:34 PM

ammunition2go.com has some very interesting ammunition selections for rifles pistols and shotguns

August 30, 2011, 02:06 PM	#1
joeranger Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 423	Interesting 12g shells? I used to get a catalog of survival/surplus gear that I loved looking at. All the stuff you would never buy but deep down you really want it even though it would collect dust. They had a whole page of "silly" shotgun rounds; bolo, flamethrower, flachette, lead dust. I know there are legitimate "bird/retort" rounds farmers use for scaring flocks out of cornfields and signal rounds for boats. Are there any other interesting specific use shells. I am not looking for "In case of zombie" shells, just miss looking at the different ones. Might be good to mention that I think there are some legalities to consider with some "special use" shells.

August 30, 2011, 03:30 PM	#3
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	When I was a kid, the local rumor was that one of the ranchers had two barrels loaded with rock salt for us youngsters that didn't know any better about scaring the cattle. I never found out, though, and the ranch is a subdivision now. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

August 30, 2011, 05:08 PM	#4
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	Always heard about the salt to protect the watermelon patch!!! __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

August 30, 2011, 08:36 PM	#7
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Salt causes rust. That's a given. Another problem with salt... it's hygroscopic. That means it soaks in water out of the humidity in the air. When it does that it turns into clumps. With rock salt there's always the possibility you'll wind up shooting the salt equivalent of buckshot or slugs, and killing someone or something. We say over and over again - anything, and that means ANYTHING, fired out of a shotgun CAN BE LETHAL, and that includes even blanks. Forget about rock salt, or the idea of ANY "nonlethal" or "less lethal" or any other kind of rubber buckshot shotgun shell or the like. No matter what it's loaded with, firing a shotgun constitutes use of lethal force. You as an armed citizen need to be completely legally justified in using lethal force if you shoot ANYTHING out of a shotgun at another human being. And forget about the other "novelty" stuff too, unless you just want more range toys to play with. "Bird bombs" or cracker shells work well for their intended purpose, scaring away birds or other nuisance critters. There was a news story last week, though, about a guard at an oil field on the North Slope in Alaska who got in trouble with the Federal government for mistakenly shooting a nuisance polar bear with a cracker shell instead of the bean bag round he had intended to use, and killing it. Once again - ANYTHING fired out of a shotgun can be lethal. Flares are meant for flare pistols or in a pinch, CYLINDER CHOKED riot barreled shotguns. Flares occasionally get stuck in chokes in shotgun barrels, and if one does then you get to watch the end of your shotgun barrel glow red as the stuck flare burns itself out in your barrel. Probably don't want to do that... "Dust busters" or breaching rounds are intended for that exact purpose - breaching doors, by blowing off locks and/or hinges while posing a reduced level of danger to anyone inside the building. They work pretty well for that. But I have been told for a fact that they too are lethal if used against a human being. Again, they're something not really useful to the ordinary armed citizen, who isn't likely going to have a string of well trained friends on hand to set up a stack, or a legitimate reason to breach a door and clear a room. There's a lot of other stuff out there besides the usual birdshot, buckshot and slugs. There's at least one company making a 'buck and ball' round in 12 gauge, they also make a load that fires two big round 'punkin balls' at once. Another company makes a 3" load with three bore size hard lead punkin balls. If I were packing a marine finish pumpgun on board a boat offshore, I'd have to do some experimenting with those loads. There are more and more different kinds of slugs showing up on the market. One newer offering from Europe is made of steel, which might be useful for big game hunters in areas where lead projectiles are not allowed. And at least one US company is offering a sabot slug made of copper, which would meet the same lead-free requirement. A certain number of folks have ideas about getting a shotgun bandolier, and loading it up bandito style with two or five of every different kind of shotgun shell out there "just in case they need" whatever. Well, it might sound good in theory but chances are it isn't going to work out well in practice. It's pretty easy to keep things sorted out just kicking around on the flat range. Under pressure though, who knows what's likely to get stuffed into the shotgun. Find a way to carry extra ammunition that keeps it clearly segregated and easy to find what you want without having to look, and if you choose ammo that lets you easily FEEL the difference (star crimped buckshot and roll crimped slugs, for instance) so much the better. Remember that security guard and the polar bear? Murphy loves ya, baby. Best approach to shotgun ammo is KISS - keep it simple and sure. Narrow things down to a manageable assortment of loads, two at the maximum - one kind of buckshot and one kind of slug, for example. Keep buckshot only in the magazine and slugs only in the butt cuff or Sidesaddle, if your situation allows those choices of course. Or just use slugs and be done with it, again if your situation allows it. Otherwise choose a different kind or kinds of defensive ammunition, based on your particular circumstances. Don't 'candy cane' or 'dutch load' your magazine, because you need to know for certain sure what will be coming out of that muzzle when you press the trigger. Or not... fwiw, lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

September 1, 2011, 02:00 PM	#11
HShack Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 106	Odd Shotgun shells About 40 yrs. ago, I bought a box of 12 ga. TRACER #8 shotshells. Haven'tseen any since. __________________ Shack

August 30, 2011, 05:14 PM	#5
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	reload with rock salt. its great for a bird varmit or trespasser deterrent. its the cheapest reload. use it on the ranch all the time.

September 1, 2011, 10:56 AM	#8
joeranger Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 423	Just a quick fyi, I did look up legalities in Il. They must have read the same catalog These are no-nos. Dragon's Breath Shotgun Shell: Any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric mesh metal as the projectile and is designed for the purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flamethrower. Bolo Shell: Any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels as projectiles 2 or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire. Flechette Shell: Any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels 2 or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid metal wire or 2 or more solid dart-type projectiles.

September 1, 2011, 12:59 PM	#10
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	They don't sell these but I think since we are talking about crazy stuff, I should mention cut shells. Which I have heard referred to as 70 cal Glaser Safey Slug

September 1, 2011, 02:06 PM	#12
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	One manufacture is starting to produce a modern version of the tracer. It was discussed on this forum several months ago. Instead of phosphorus, it uses cylume chemical. The intended purpose is as a training shell for skeet/trap shooting to show if a shooter is leading the target properly.

September 1, 2011, 02:34 PM	#13
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	ammunition2go.com has some very interesting ammunition selections for rifles pistols and shotguns

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