Storage of powder & caps

marcseatac · October 20, 2006, 07:09 PM

I thought it might be interesting to hear what people do with their BP propellants and primers and caps. I have all my stuff in a wooden box that has a wooden tray that is perfect for the small stuff. How and what are you using?

FLATWOODS FRED · October 20, 2006, 07:25 PM

I keep the Max 50 lbs (Real BP) on hand. Its stored in a neat powder magazine I got through the Maine Powder House

www.mainepowderhouse.com

The idea is if there is a fire the powder will indeed burn. The lid is designed so it fits a bit loose. However double motise locks prevent the lid from blowing off. This allows the powder to burn as if unconfined rather then go BOOM. The box simply contains the burn and prevents it from spreading.

As for primers, those are stored separate of course.

marcseatac · October 20, 2006, 07:58 PM

Here's a pic of mine. Bought this at a local shooting sporting goods store. Guess the main idea is to be sparkproof.

gmatov · October 20, 2006, 11:41 PM

I find it hard to believe that that 18 ga steel box, loose lid or no, is going to allow a slow burn with BP.

Smokeless, mebbe.

BP has a tendency to deflagrate, to burn violently, indeed, to explode.

You don't get around that.

If you want to experiment, pour a small mound of it and a trail to it from your can, shield your face while you light the trail. It is not like what you see in the old movies, a slow hissing burn down the trail to the barrels in the magazine in France or Mexico or wherever the movie is supposed to be about.

It's more like touch, flash, BOOM. If a powder train was slow as a fuse, they would not have needed to develop slow fuses.

Cheers,

George

marcseatac · October 21, 2006, 02:46 AM

I was reading somewhere that in England it is law that blackpowder be stored in a regulation wooden box. It is part of being accepted for a permit to own BP guns and powder.

FLATWOODS FRED · October 21, 2006, 05:03 PM

Yes I have had my share of singed eybrows back in my youth. Nothing like getting a phone call from the folks across the street telling you your yards on fire.

Whether an 18 ga box is the answer or not its what the powers that be requires me to use. So.... I use it.

The thought of 50 lbs of powder in a wooden box with the cover fastened down tight doesn't sound to appealing either.

marcseatac · October 21, 2006, 07:24 PM

http://www.mlagb.com/legislation/mser2005.htm

The Manufacture and Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005

The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005 (SI Number 2005/1082) came into force on 26 April 2005. A text only version of this document is available on-line from the Office of Public Sector Information (OPSI). A print version is also available and is published by The Stationery Office Limited as the The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005, ISBN 0110727649.

An Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) and guidance has been published by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) and can be ordered direct from the HSE or via The Stationery Office. (Title: Manufacture and storage of explosives. Subtitle: Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005. Approved Code of Practice and Guidance. ISBN: 0717628167. Price: £20.95). See also the Explosives - Shooting and Historical Re-enactment pages on the HSE web site.

About three pages of the ACOP are particularly relevant to those who hold explosives for private use. This information is reproduced below by kind permission of the HSE:

Storage of Shooters' Powder

410 Regulation 5(3)(b) and (c) disapplies separation distance requirements for the keeping of small quantities of shooters' powder. The following section describes the conditions that must be met in order to qualify for the disappliction. These conditions apply to all premises including domestic premises.

411 Shooters' powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder.

412 The powder must be kept in containers with no more than 550 grams of powder per container. The containers must be constructed in such a way that, in the event of a fire they do not provide additional containment that will increase the explosive force of any deflagration. Normally plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers will be suitable for this purpose. Metal containers with a screw cap, or a push-in lid (ie similar to a paint tin lid) must not be used.

413 Although shooters’ powders are generally not very sensitive to ignition by electrostatic discharge, homeloaders or others who decant the contents of plastic containers must take care to reduce the risk of build up of static electricity. Advice on appropriate precautions may be sought from the manufacturer.

414 The containers of powder must be kept in a box constructed of plywood with a minimum thickness of 18 mm – or material with an equal or greater fire and physical resistance. (Health and Safety Laboratory tests found that 18 mm plywood offered 15 minutes’ fire resistanc; 24 mm plywood offered 30 minutes’ fire resistance).

415 Metal boxes, including ammunition boxes, are not suitable and must not be used. This is because, firstly while metal is fire resistant it also transmits heat very well and secondly, because the metal container adds additional containment that significantly increases the explosive power of the powder. It should be noted that the requirements in this paragraph replace guidance permitting the keeping of black powder in a lacquered or tinned iron or steel trunk or box contained in the publication A Guide to the Control of Explosives Regulations 1991.

416 Where the box holds more than one container, each individual container must be separated by a 6 mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer walls of the box. Each compartment must allow 30% additional height between the top of the container and the inside of the lid.

417 It is a good idea to put an intumescent strip around the edges of the lid to give a good seal.

418 Figure 1 shows a box that would meet the requirements set out in the previous paragraphs.

Figure 1: Storage of shooters’ powder: Note intumescent strip on box lid

---------------------------------------------
This is from the UK regulations. Interesting! Just Googled it.

Wild Bill Bucks · October 22, 2006, 04:19 PM

I keep all my reloading supplies and ML products in a seperate gunsafe, away from the safe with my guns in it.

I worry more about my powders drawing moisture, than I do about sparks and fire.

I seal all of my powders with a food saver machine. This keeps them fresh and protects them from moisture, and being sealed air tight, pretty much makes them spark proof.

In case of a fire big enough to burn them in my safe, I will be the guy in the street, telling the firemen, that they should move further back from that side of the house.

OLD LOADER · October 26, 2006, 01:02 PM

I found I have have a one pound can dupont F F F .Seems I bought It In
1953, it full do any think it is still viable. Can has been wraped up lable
looks new.What do you folks thinks.

sundance44s · October 26, 2006, 01:52 PM

I`ve seen some older than that shoot fine .,. if its still dry shake the tin to break up any clumps and load her up .

October 20, 2006, 07:09 PM	#1
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Storage of powder & caps I thought it might be interesting to hear what people do with their BP propellants and primers and caps. I have all my stuff in a wooden box that has a wooden tray that is perfect for the small stuff. How and what are you using?

October 26, 2006, 01:02 PM	#9
OLD LOADER Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: stone mountain ga. Posts: 55	Dupont B P I found I have have a one pound can dupont F F F .Seems I bought It In 1953, it full do any think it is still viable. Can has been wraped up lable looks new.What do you folks thinks.

October 26, 2006, 01:52 PM	#10
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Sundance44s I`ve seen some older than that shoot fine .,. if its still dry shake the tin to break up any clumps and load her up .

October 20, 2006, 07:25 PM	#2
FLATWOODS FRED Member Join Date: June 28, 2006 Posts: 16	I keep the Max 50 lbs (Real BP) on hand. Its stored in a neat powder magazine I got through the Maine Powder House www.mainepowderhouse.com The idea is if there is a fire the powder will indeed burn. The lid is designed so it fits a bit loose. However double motise locks prevent the lid from blowing off. This allows the powder to burn as if unconfined rather then go BOOM. The box simply contains the burn and prevents it from spreading. As for primers, those are stored separate of course.

October 20, 2006, 07:58 PM	#3
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	Here's a pic of mine. Bought this at a local shooting sporting goods store. Guess the main idea is to be sparkproof.

October 20, 2006, 11:41 PM	#4
gmatov Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2005 Posts: 346	I find it hard to believe that that 18 ga steel box, loose lid or no, is going to allow a slow burn with BP. Smokeless, mebbe. BP has a tendency to deflagrate, to burn violently, indeed, to explode. You don't get around that. If you want to experiment, pour a small mound of it and a trail to it from your can, shield your face while you light the trail. It is not like what you see in the old movies, a slow hissing burn down the trail to the barrels in the magazine in France or Mexico or wherever the movie is supposed to be about. It's more like touch, flash, BOOM. If a powder train was slow as a fuse, they would not have needed to develop slow fuses. Cheers, George

October 21, 2006, 02:46 AM	#5
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	I was reading somewhere that in England it is law that blackpowder be stored in a regulation wooden box. It is part of being accepted for a permit to own BP guns and powder.

October 21, 2006, 05:03 PM	#6
FLATWOODS FRED Member Join Date: June 28, 2006 Posts: 16	Yes I have had my share of singed eybrows back in my youth. Nothing like getting a phone call from the folks across the street telling you your yards on fire. Whether an 18 ga box is the answer or not its what the powers that be requires me to use. So.... I use it. The thought of 50 lbs of powder in a wooden box with the cover fastened down tight doesn't sound to appealing either.

October 21, 2006, 07:24 PM	#7
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	http://www.mlagb.com/legislation/mser2005.htm The Manufacture and Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005 The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005 (SI Number 2005/1082) came into force on 26 April 2005. A text only version of this document is available on-line from the Office of Public Sector Information (OPSI). A print version is also available and is published by The Stationery Office Limited as the The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005, ISBN 0110727649. An Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) and guidance has been published by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) and can be ordered direct from the HSE or via The Stationery Office. (Title: Manufacture and storage of explosives. Subtitle: Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005. Approved Code of Practice and Guidance. ISBN: 0717628167. Price: £20.95). See also the Explosives - Shooting and Historical Re-enactment pages on the HSE web site. About three pages of the ACOP are particularly relevant to those who hold explosives for private use. This information is reproduced below by kind permission of the HSE: Storage of Shooters' Powder 410 Regulation 5(3)(b) and (c) disapplies separation distance requirements for the keeping of small quantities of shooters' powder. The following section describes the conditions that must be met in order to qualify for the disappliction. These conditions apply to all premises including domestic premises. 411 Shooters' powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder. 412 The powder must be kept in containers with no more than 550 grams of powder per container. The containers must be constructed in such a way that, in the event of a fire they do not provide additional containment that will increase the explosive force of any deflagration. Normally plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers will be suitable for this purpose. Metal containers with a screw cap, or a push-in lid (ie similar to a paint tin lid) must not be used. 413 Although shooters’ powders are generally not very sensitive to ignition by electrostatic discharge, homeloaders or others who decant the contents of plastic containers must take care to reduce the risk of build up of static electricity. Advice on appropriate precautions may be sought from the manufacturer. 414 The containers of powder must be kept in a box constructed of plywood with a minimum thickness of 18 mm – or material with an equal or greater fire and physical resistance. (Health and Safety Laboratory tests found that 18 mm plywood offered 15 minutes’ fire resistanc; 24 mm plywood offered 30 minutes’ fire resistance). 415 Metal boxes, including ammunition boxes, are not suitable and must not be used. This is because, firstly while metal is fire resistant it also transmits heat very well and secondly, because the metal container adds additional containment that significantly increases the explosive power of the powder. It should be noted that the requirements in this paragraph replace guidance permitting the keeping of black powder in a lacquered or tinned iron or steel trunk or box contained in the publication A Guide to the Control of Explosives Regulations 1991. 416 Where the box holds more than one container, each individual container must be separated by a 6 mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer walls of the box. Each compartment must allow 30% additional height between the top of the container and the inside of the lid. 417 It is a good idea to put an intumescent strip around the edges of the lid to give a good seal. 418 Figure 1 shows a box that would meet the requirements set out in the previous paragraphs. Figure 1: Storage of shooters’ powder: Note intumescent strip on box lid --------------------------------------------- This is from the UK regulations. Interesting! Just Googled it.

October 22, 2006, 04:19 PM	#8
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	I keep all my reloading supplies and ML products in a seperate gunsafe, away from the safe with my guns in it. I worry more about my powders drawing moisture, than I do about sparks and fire. I seal all of my powders with a food saver machine. This keeps them fresh and protects them from moisture, and being sealed air tight, pretty much makes them spark proof. In case of a fire big enough to burn them in my safe, I will be the guy in the street, telling the firemen, that they should move further back from that side of the house.