Water Quenching Question

[Red Wiggler]

If you water quench your cast bullets should you sill give them time to harden on their own ? And if so how long ?

[nemesiss45]

I would have to look at the times in my casting book, but if I remember correctly, the bullets will continue to harden and peak after a few weeks, but will then drop back to a lower hardness at a month or so. Their hardness, I believe, 2-3 days after casting will approximate their final hardness.... like I said though... I would have to look up those times.

[mikld]

Forgive my add on, it's within the OP's question; how much does time add to the hardness. I've been casting for 15 years and some bullets I'll size and shoot within a day or two and I also have bullets 4 years old. I guess I'm not concerned with 2 or 3 BHN points...

[myfriendis410]

It really all depends on what lead alloy you are using. Typically you will see the best hardening results with arsenic in the mix (wheel weights). My preferred technique with ww alloy is to heat treat at 450F for one hour followed by a two week rest. The alloy is at it's hardest after heat treating and stabilizes at some lower value after 2 to 4 weeks. Also; ww material will harden over time as well with no heat treating.

Water quenching will surface harden lead/tin alloys to an extent, but the introduction of ww material to your mix will do wonders for hardness.

[mikld]

OK, but does anyone know how much added hardness I can expect from say wheel weight alloy over a specific period of time?

[salvadore]

This may have the information you're looking for.

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

[Mike / Tx]

Just throwing this out there for you.

Don't get overly caught up in water dropping your bullets, UNLESS you REALLY find a need for it.

When I started out casting it was for my 454. My only alloy at the time was wheel weights. I wasn't sure if they would work or not so I poured up hundred and let them air cool, and another hundred which I quenched.

I trimmed all the cases, and loaded each load with weighed charges instead of throwing them. I used both AA-9 and WW-296. I also used two different lubes as I wanted a side by side comparrison. I loaded them up in batched of 25 for each type. After shooting them side by side, cleaning the barrel before starting on another batch, there was no comparrison that the air cooled no matter what produced the best accuracy by a long shot.

I have since dropped any quenching simple as I have found that in most of my handgun loads the straight wheel weight alloy is more than hard enough. Nowadays most of my alloy runs around a 10 to12 BHN rather than the 14-16 I was getting with the other.

Now all that said once I start pouring up rifle bullets this may all change indeed, but I will still start off soft and work up as needed.

[Rangefinder]

Now all that said once I start pouring up rifle bullets this may all change indeed, but I will still start off soft and work up as needed.

Not even necessary there. I've driving air cooled WW in 7.62x39 at near jacketed loads with no issues. PC'ing them now, but still--even with just mule snot before, there was no problem at all pushing air cooled WW hard through my rifles.

[mikld]

My point was, sorta, if waiting only hardens my alloy two or three BHN points, why bother? BTW, my question was only academic, I don't water quench, and I haven't used my hardness tester in mebbe a year. I use my "mystery alloy" bullets sized to fit the gun and don't worry about BHN...

[GP100man]

I`m almost in the boat with mikld, but i do use my hardness tester to check for a consistent bhn ,BUT that gives me NO idea as to what is in my alloys.

These days , if the alloy is in the 12-13 bhn I pay more attention to size & good lube & loading techniques.

I figure if I can get a heavy for caliber 357 bullet going 1k fps & it`ll go where I point it to go it`s done what I needed.

But to actually answer your question is , alot depends on your particular alloy .
Tin, antimony, & arsenic content have affects on water quenching/heat treating that is very touchy & hard to do consistently .

I`ve done time testing on some alloys ( wheel weights & isotpe ) & found all of em go back to the original hardness in time .

Now , talking `bout timing of peak hardness depends on the alloys %s, COWW can vary greatly in this game now !!The isotope alloy was alot more consistent & predictable/controlable .

If I were to need a consistent alloy for a specific reason the alloys at Rotometals would be first on my list , now before we get on the cost ban wagon consider the alloy you need vs. guessing at the COWW you have on hand ,chasing tin/antimony & useable arsenic down & plus the alloy from Rotometals is ready to put in the pot ,no smelting/blending - - - - - see where I`m going ????

just my take .

GP