President shooting skeet (kinda,maybe,perhaps) - Page 2

jimbob86 · February 2, 2013, 07:42 PM

..... and further, if in fact he does shoot like that "all the time", then he is not as nearly as smart as his fans make him out to be: with all the resources available to him, why would he persist in his ignorance on a skill that he engages in so very frequently?

Kleinzeit · February 2, 2013, 07:51 PM

"All the time" is so vague a phrase as to be essentially meaningless.

I see two observations to draw from this:

1) He recognizes that, while it will alienate some of his supporters, being pictured with a gun also makes him look "reasonable" and thus might facilitate the passage of legislation.

2) He is not averse to being shown with a gun. Again, this risks alienating some supporters, but it also indirectly promotes the recreational use of guns, particularly among those who are otherwise uncomfortable with them. Which isn't such a bad thing, is it?

MLeake · February 2, 2013, 07:56 PM

It is politically shameless, all things being equal, which is about as surprising as my dog deciding to mark the carpet cleaner my wife just bought - for cleaning up marks left by my dog...

scrubcedar · February 2, 2013, 08:07 PM

This is not at it's core about form. The Presidents form while shooting skeet is irrelevant, I agree. The President obviously telling a lie to persuade people will never be irrelevant.
After feeding in "skeet shooting" into google image search, I'm even more sure that this is a staged shot with someone who wasn't even trying to hit a clay target.
Go ahead, try it for yourself, go to google, I didn't see a single person who looked as bad as he does.

It ain't about form, it's about honesty and integrity. If he is trying to tell me that a person who shoots skeet "all the time" looks like that behind the gun he has neither.

Think about it this way folks, a new member comes on to this site, starts a thread about lets say shotgun loads. This person posts the shot of the
President uses as proof of his skill, then says he goes skeet shooting "all the time"
You're probably going to think he is either a liar or an idiot who has no idea what he is doing and is to egotistical to listen to others as they try to help him get better.
I don't see either of those scenarios as one I'd want a President involved in.

The question is Liar,or Idiot.

My vote is Liar, what's yours?

Kleinzeit · February 2, 2013, 08:09 PM

With millions of Americans foaming at the mouth about a tyrannical Nazi Muslim from Kenya who is "kermin ter terk er gerns," a well-timed release of a picture of the President enjoying the shooting sports is - no matter how contrived - far from reducible to the politically shameless. We can laugh at his lack of skill, and point to the obvious political mileage he draws from this rhetorical gesture, but to reduce it merely to an act of cunning or of stupidity is no less shameless.

scrubcedar, you obviously didn't look too hard in your google search. Confirmation bias much?

MLeake · February 2, 2013, 08:14 PM

kleinzeit, he looks like he is enjoying the experience about as much as I enjoyed my MRI.

Couple a fake looking photo with response after response from gun control legislators mouthing the party line about respecting the rights of hunters and traditional sport shooters, and I think "cunning" and "shameless" are apt descriptors.

I am not sure why you would find it shameless for many of us to see this photo in such light.

Kleinzeit · February 2, 2013, 08:17 PM

Because of the consistent failure to acknowledge that this isn't all that's happening here. It's shamelessly and transparently reductive. Holding your position doesn't require you to ignore the other aspects of this complex moment. You are just choosing to.

Can you seriously not recognize even a shred of potential benefit to gunowners?

MLeake · February 2, 2013, 08:24 PM

Kleinzeit, can you seriously not see the coordinated effort between the White House and the gun controllers in Congress to try another round of 1994 Divide and Conquer, by assuring those gunners who like more traditional firearms that they won't be affected?

The potential credibility gain for guns amongst the fence-sitters does not come close to offsetting the harms done if we get another, 1994-esque desertion of our cause by closeted Fudds.

Kleinzeit · February 2, 2013, 08:25 PM

Of course they are trying to get legislation through. And of course "divide and conquer" is an effective technique. But they aren't doing all the dividing themselves. Gun owners are already deeply divided over this issue. I'm constantly amazed at how many gun owners misunderstand the whole "assault weapons" thing. Many, of course, simply won't be affected by a new AWB (which probably won't go through anyway). An increasing number despise the NRA. "Universal" background checks has wide support. Blaming the administration for these divisions ignores how prevalent they already are.

scrubcedar · February 2, 2013, 08:28 PM

Kleinzeit, I looked through the first thousand or so results. Maybe you looked further, if so, kudo's to you but if you have to look that much further it proves my point, not yours.

As for the allegation and slur you threw in about my being an ignorant redneck.("kermin ter terk er gerns,") let me assure you as the son of an uppercrust English Father I can speak the Kings English quite well thank you.

So that we're clear about the I.Q. behind that vocabulary, people bring me in to find what they are doing wrong in their business so that they can expand their business. I'm paid a great deal to, in a brutally honest way, analyze situations by some very savvy businessmen.
They've learned to ignore my analysis at their peril.

MLeake · February 2, 2013, 08:32 PM

Kleinzeit, have you paid the least shred of attention to the threads about responses from Seanators and reps to letters opposing gun control? If not, go check those out, and get back to me afterward.

Every last one that has been posted to TFL, from a gun control proponent, has paid lip service to hunting, and either traditional sport shooting in general or skeet shooting in particular.

Based on the obvious party coaching and coordination that implies, I would be foolish not to suspect this picture of being a deliberate ploy in support of that "meme."

BigD_in_FL · February 2, 2013, 08:34 PM

Besides the no choke in the bottom barrel, the absolute poor form, and poor gun fit, what else does he do all the time in this poor of a manner?

Oh yeah, act like a POTUS..........

jimbob86 · February 2, 2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Can you seriously not recognize even a shred of potential benefit to gunowners?

Oh, I DO recognize his (not potential, but very concrete) benefits to the pro-gun movement: His elections have twice set records for firearm sales volume! I'm pretty sure he was not happy about that, but I sure am!

Salesman of the Year, indeed!

Kleinzeit · February 2, 2013, 08:38 PM

scrubcedar, I didn't mean to imply any ignorance on your part. It is clear from the way you communicate that you are an educated fellow. But you cannot deny that such ignorance abounds.

As for the images, the very first one that came up showed a young woman shouldering a shotgun in precisely the same way.

But my point is that it just doesn't matter. Calling a man a liar because he doesn't hold a shotgun the way you think he should, and impugning his intelligence because he hasn't yet refined his skills (which, as Brian points out above, do not so urgently need refining as some here have suggested) serves no purpose but to tell us how much you don't like him. There are very simple, and far more benign, explanations at hand for this photo op. You can be outraged if you want, but I don't see what purpose it serves.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 2, 2013, 08:42 PM

Sigh, bickering among the kids.

Closed

February 2, 2013, 08:07 PM	#29
scrubcedar Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2012 Location: Southwestern Colorado Posts: 507	This is not at it's core about form. The Presidents form while shooting skeet is irrelevant, I agree. The President obviously telling a lie to persuade people will never be irrelevant. After feeding in "skeet shooting" into google image search, I'm even more sure that this is a staged shot with someone who wasn't even trying to hit a clay target. Go ahead, try it for yourself, go to google, I didn't see a single person who looked as bad as he does. It ain't about form, it's about honesty and integrity. If he is trying to tell me that a person who shoots skeet "all the time" looks like that behind the gun he has neither. Think about it this way folks, a new member comes on to this site, starts a thread about lets say shotgun loads. This person posts the shot of the President uses as proof of his skill, then says he goes skeet shooting "all the time" You're probably going to think he is either a liar or an idiot who has no idea what he is doing and is to egotistical to listen to others as they try to help him get better. I don't see either of those scenarios as one I'd want a President involved in. The question is Liar,or Idiot. My vote is Liar, what's yours? __________________ Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado

February 2, 2013, 08:17 PM	#32
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	Because of the consistent failure to acknowledge that this isn't all that's happening here. It's shamelessly and transparently reductive. Holding your position doesn't require you to ignore the other aspects of this complex moment. You are just choosing to. Can you seriously not recognize even a shred of potential benefit to gunowners? Last edited by Kleinzeit; February 2, 2013 at 08:23 PM.

February 2, 2013, 08:28 PM	#35
scrubcedar Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2012 Location: Southwestern Colorado Posts: 507	Kleinzeit, I looked through the first thousand or so results. Maybe you looked further, if so, kudo's to you but if you have to look that much further it proves my point, not yours. As for the allegation and slur you threw in about my being an ignorant redneck.("kermin ter terk er gerns,") let me assure you as the son of an uppercrust English Father I can speak the Kings English quite well thank you. So that we're clear about the I.Q. behind that vocabulary, people bring me in to find what they are doing wrong in their business so that they can expand their business. I'm paid a great deal to, in a brutally honest way, analyze situations by some very savvy businessmen. They've learned to ignore my analysis at their peril. __________________ Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado

February 2, 2013, 08:42 PM	#40
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Sigh, bickering among the kids. Closed __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

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February 2, 2013, 07:42 PM	#26
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	..... and further, if in fact he does shoot like that "all the time", then he is not as nearly as smart as his fans make him out to be: with all the resources available to him, why would he persist in his ignorance on a skill that he engages in so very frequently?

February 2, 2013, 07:51 PM	#27
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	"All the time" is so vague a phrase as to be essentially meaningless. I see two observations to draw from this: 1) He recognizes that, while it will alienate some of his supporters, being pictured with a gun also makes him look "reasonable" and thus might facilitate the passage of legislation. 2) He is not averse to being shown with a gun. Again, this risks alienating some supporters, but it also indirectly promotes the recreational use of guns, particularly among those who are otherwise uncomfortable with them. Which isn't such a bad thing, is it?

February 2, 2013, 07:56 PM	#28
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	It is politically shameless, all things being equal, which is about as surprising as my dog deciding to mark the carpet cleaner my wife just bought - for cleaning up marks left by my dog...

February 2, 2013, 08:09 PM	#30
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	With millions of Americans foaming at the mouth about a tyrannical Nazi Muslim from Kenya who is "kermin ter terk er gerns," a well-timed release of a picture of the President enjoying the shooting sports is - no matter how contrived - far from reducible to the politically shameless. We can laugh at his lack of skill, and point to the obvious political mileage he draws from this rhetorical gesture, but to reduce it merely to an act of cunning or of stupidity is no less shameless. scrubcedar, you obviously didn't look too hard in your google search. Confirmation bias much?

February 2, 2013, 08:14 PM	#31
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	kleinzeit, he looks like he is enjoying the experience about as much as I enjoyed my MRI. Couple a fake looking photo with response after response from gun control legislators mouthing the party line about respecting the rights of hunters and traditional sport shooters, and I think "cunning" and "shameless" are apt descriptors. I am not sure why you would find it shameless for many of us to see this photo in such light.

February 2, 2013, 08:24 PM	#33
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Kleinzeit, can you seriously not see the coordinated effort between the White House and the gun controllers in Congress to try another round of 1994 Divide and Conquer, by assuring those gunners who like more traditional firearms that they won't be affected? The potential credibility gain for guns amongst the fence-sitters does not come close to offsetting the harms done if we get another, 1994-esque desertion of our cause by closeted Fudds.

February 2, 2013, 08:25 PM	#34
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	Of course they are trying to get legislation through. And of course "divide and conquer" is an effective technique. But they aren't doing all the dividing themselves. Gun owners are already deeply divided over this issue. I'm constantly amazed at how many gun owners misunderstand the whole "assault weapons" thing. Many, of course, simply won't be affected by a new AWB (which probably won't go through anyway). An increasing number despise the NRA. "Universal" background checks has wide support. Blaming the administration for these divisions ignores how prevalent they already are.

February 2, 2013, 08:32 PM	#36
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Kleinzeit, have you paid the least shred of attention to the threads about responses from Seanators and reps to letters opposing gun control? If not, go check those out, and get back to me afterward. Every last one that has been posted to TFL, from a gun control proponent, has paid lip service to hunting, and either traditional sport shooting in general or skeet shooting in particular. Based on the obvious party coaching and coordination that implies, I would be foolish not to suspect this picture of being a deliberate ploy in support of that "meme."

February 2, 2013, 08:34 PM	#37
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Besides the no choke in the bottom barrel, the absolute poor form, and poor gun fit, what else does he do all the time in this poor of a manner? Oh yeah, act like a POTUS..........

February 2, 2013, 08:38 PM	#39
Kleinzeit Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 566	scrubcedar, I didn't mean to imply any ignorance on your part. It is clear from the way you communicate that you are an educated fellow. But you cannot deny that such ignorance abounds. As for the images, the very first one that came up showed a young woman shouldering a shotgun in precisely the same way. But my point is that it just doesn't matter. Calling a man a liar because he doesn't hold a shotgun the way you think he should, and impugning his intelligence because he hasn't yet refined his skills (which, as Brian points out above, do not so urgently need refining as some here have suggested) serves no purpose but to tell us how much you don't like him. There are very simple, and far more benign, explanations at hand for this photo op. You can be outraged if you want, but I don't see what purpose it serves.