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March 21, 2013, 09:14 PM | #1 |
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Is 357 velocity faster when leaving 16 inch Trapper or 20 inch carbine lever rifles?
Is 357 velocity faster when leaving a 16 inch Trapper or 20 inch carbine lever rifles?
Assuming one has both a 16 inch Trapper Winchester model 94 in 357 and a 20 inch carbine Winchester model 94 in 357, firing the same ammo, which one would have the higher velocity? I don't have a chrono to find out. Does anyone know? "Logic" says that the longer barrel will produce higher velocity, but somewhere along the way of life I think I recall reading that the longer barrel of the 20 inch carbine actually slows the bullet down before it exits the muzzle end, compared to the 16 inch Trapper. Does anyone know if that's true? Last edited by valleyforge.1777; March 21, 2013 at 09:20 PM. |
March 21, 2013, 09:28 PM | #2 |
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I'm pretty certain the longer barrel will be faster, but not by a whole lot. It shouldn't be the deciding factor for which one to buy.
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March 21, 2013, 09:51 PM | #3 |
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These are 357 Model 94AE's with scopes.
I am really trying to decide which one to sight in (scope) at 100 yards for 357 Mag and which one to keep scope sighted in at 50 yards for 38's. I figure that the one with the higher velocity with 357 will get sighted in for 100 yards and the slower one will get sighted in for 38's at 50 yards. Not trying to make it a trick question, because it seems obvious that the 20 inch barrel should yield a higher velocity than the 16, but I have this nagging feeling that somewhere I read that for 357 it actually starts slowing down by the time it exits the 20 inch barrel. But then again, maybe what I read was referring to the 24 inch rifle barrel rather than the 20 inch carbine barrel. I don't know! I can't remember where or what I read. Or, when I read it! Anyway, if anyone has a thought, please chime in. [Ps. A scope at 50 yards? Yes. Eyesight issues.] |
March 21, 2013, 09:58 PM | #4 |
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You can actually see here that the 357 starts slowing down after 16 inches of barrel length.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
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March 21, 2013, 10:16 PM | #5 |
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You don't need a chronograph to see which will have better ballistics.
Since you have both, take them to the range. Set up a target at 50 yards, 100 and 150 yards. Sight in both to the same point of impact at 50. Shoot both at the 100 and 150 yard targets. The one with the least drop at both 100 and 150 is the better set up for longer range. Provided that group size is good enough for your purpose. Several factors determine the trajectory of a bullet. Velocity is a big factor but scope hight from center of the bore can have a big part as well. The only way to know for sure is to shoot both and see.
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March 21, 2013, 10:43 PM | #6 |
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Depends upon the burn rate of the powder, I would think.
A very fast powder would actually generate a slower velocity (at safe pressure) in the longer barrel- you'd get to max pressure before you got top velocity. Longer barrels favor slower powders, generally. |
March 22, 2013, 01:00 AM | #7 |
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Depends on the Powder.
A light charge of fast burning powder will reach peak velocity sooner and begin to drop pressures below the point of further gains; so that 16" barrel may very well shoot faster with such a load. However, a heavy charge of AA-9, IMR-4227, H-110 and the like will make the longer barrel shoot substantially faster.
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March 22, 2013, 02:31 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
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March 22, 2013, 03:41 AM | #9 |
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Question? Why would U wanna shoot 38's in a carbine? I would think 357's in both of em....
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March 22, 2013, 07:34 AM | #10 | |
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It might help to also look at our "Cylinder Gap" test results, which include a full second test sequence of chop tests. It's not a complete repeat using the same ammo as the first sequence, but there's a lot of overlap. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/gaptests.html Cheers.
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March 22, 2013, 08:10 AM | #11 |
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Not to hijack your thread, but I have a 16" Trapper and would like
to know what factory .357 Mag ammo is best suited to the barrel. I have Gold Dot 125 gr. GDHP and Black Talon 180 gr. SXT. Thanks
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March 22, 2013, 02:23 PM | #12 |
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It's possible. I know the link to the BBTI link shows a slight decrease with the longer barrel. But, not with every ammo tested, and that is just 1 barrel. You never know what will happen when you are comparing different guns. It is common to see 50-100 fps difference, sometimes more, even with barrels of the same length. Some barrels just shoot faster than others.
I'd just zero both at 75 yards and call it good. Neither would be off enough between 50-100 yards to matter. |
March 22, 2013, 02:57 PM | #13 |
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I am a bit skeptical of a chart that shows velocity increasing up to 16", then abruptly dropping at 17", then increasing at 18". Maybe that powder charge got a second wind?
This seems to support the idea that the powder is all consumed within x inches, and then the bullet velocity drops as the bullet is slowed by friction, so a bullet fired from an x+" barrel will have less velocity than one fired from an x" barrel. But that is not the way things work. Even after the powder is consumed, the hot gasses it generated continue to expand and exert pressure. How long that continues depends on many factors, but it does continue well after the powder is consumed. Jim |
March 22, 2013, 07:48 PM | #14 | |
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Unfortunately, the best groups obtainable with a scope and using a rifle rest at 100 yards with the 20 inch carbine and using Remington 125 grain SJHP is a few inches. A few points to consider: 1. I don't have a chrono, so I don't have velocity data for any of that. 2. These are lever rifles with mag tubes and barrel bands. They are meant to be hunting rifles (with minute-of-deer sized groups), not marksmanship-demonstration instruments. They are prone to vertical stringing and uneven heating/cooling with varying rates of fire. 3. Interestingly, similar findings were observed with 125 grain 38 Special ammo vs. 158 grain 38 Special ammo at 25 and 50 yards. I concluded that: The 158 grain ammo groups lousy with these rifles and the 125 is noticeably better, but not perfect. Never tried heavy stuff like 180 grain ammo. |
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