How long does it take a new gun to reach the shelf?

ScottRiqui · February 6, 2013, 11:05 AM

When I bought my Remington R1 new in March of 2012, it wasn't exactly a "scarce" model, but gun shops weren't swimming in them either. Most stores seemed to have none, one or maybe two in stock, and they didn't seem to sit on the shelf very long.

So imagine my surprise when I find out that my pistol was already over a year old when I bought it. Likewise, a co-worker of mine just bought a new Sig 250C two weeks ago in the midst of the buying frenzy, and the manufacture date on the box is from 2009.

So where do most new guns spend their time before the first owner takes them home? Are they sitting at the factory, at the distributor, or on the gun store shelf?

kahrguy · February 6, 2013, 11:16 AM

Our general store is the same. They have model that come directly from the makers to wholsaler to dealer as quickly as all can process them. Then they have a few that seem to set around for a could year. I just recieve a handgun I have never seen in a gun shop that sat in a wholsalers stock for almost a year befor I ordered it.

Our general store does not raise prices ether on those older models. Might see two side by side with a large difference in price.

RamItOne · February 6, 2013, 04:52 PM

Scott- does your friend know if he's got the old or new grip style on the p250, they had a lot of QC issues at first. They redesigned the gun and the easiest way is by looking at the grip.
See the attached photo.

James K · February 6, 2013, 05:21 PM

I suspect most of the time "old" guns are the result of stockpiling, either at the factory or the distributor, or both. Most gun factories do not make all the lines all the time, they simply are not big enough. So they will tool up for the Model X, turn out however many they think will be needed until the next cycle, then break the line down and tool up for the Model Y and so on. If things work right, the stock room will run out of Model X's just as the line begins turning them out again.

But if the cycle is disrupted, say the Model X proves very popular so management decides to extend that model's production time, things can go wrong. Conversely, guns are not like bananas. They don't go bad in storage, so if some Model X's are still in the stockroom when new ones come off the line, the new ones go on top of the pile, and the older ones can remain on the bottom for another cycle or two. The same can happen at the distributors or even at a large store or chain.

That is part of the reason why companies don't like to publish serial number/date of manufacture data. Some folks don't want an "old" gun, even though it is absolutely identical to a "new" gun.

Jim

ScottRiqui · February 6, 2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Scott- does your friend know if he's got the old or new grip style on the p250, they had a lot of QC issues at first. They redesigned the gun and the easiest way is by looking at the grip.
See the attached photo.

Thanks! He's on travel right now, but I'll save the link and send it to him when he comes back.

When you talk about "QC" issues, are they anything he can do anything about (like outstanding recalls)? Or should he just keep an eye out for problems in general?

Grizz12 · February 6, 2013, 06:42 PM

manufactures sell in bulk to save on shipping costs and distributor buy in bulk for the same reason.

Retailers buy however many they think they can move or they can afford.

I imagine every distributor has empty shelves now because EVERYTHING is selling

jason_iowa · February 7, 2013, 11:52 PM

The Scheels near me is closing to move to a new bigger location. Even the guns they had on "sale" were overpriced with used ones being priced as new ones online. They had a very good selection.

I have an uncle who is a very small dealer. Hobby really not his livelihood. He is usually able to get me stuff within 3 or 4 months of a release date. How long they start manufacturing before release varies from company to company and how big the production run is I would guess.

250s are done I believe as well. They were not a good gun and sold even worse. I'm a huge sig fan but I would sell that thing off pronto...

**JohnKSa** · February 7, 2013, 11:58 PM

It can take years. I've bought new guns that had been discontinued for years.

It probably sits for awhile at the factory and then definitely at the distributor until it's ordered by a retailer. I think that sometimes they get pushed to a back shelf and sit for longer than intended. Then, it can sit at the retailer quite a long time if the retailer guesses incorrectly at demand level or at the saleability of a particular firearm.

They might even get sent back to a distributor if the retailer can't move them.

The SIG P250 is probably an example of a gun that retailers thought would fly off the shelves given their price and unique features. Instead, they haven't proved to be very good sellers in many areas.

DMK · February 8, 2013, 08:15 AM

Do dealers ever sell or trade new guns that aren't selling back to the wholesalers to get better selling models?

A model that sells well in one area may collect dust on the shelves in another area.

Quote:

Some folks don't want an "old" gun, even though it is absolutely identical to a "new" gun.

That's just silly. Unless it's been superseded by a newer model, what difference does it make?

ScottRiqui · February 8, 2013, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Some folks don't want an "old" gun, even though it is absolutely identical to a "new" gun.

Quote:

That's just silly. Unless it's been superseded by a newer model, what difference does it make?

Given my choice, I'd rather have the newer gun as well. Even without an official model change, manufacturers have been known to make running design changes over the life of a model.

Now, if I knew for certain that the two guns were identical, then I wouldn't care - the serial number is just a number to me.

James K · February 8, 2013, 11:45 PM

"... the serial number is just a number to me."

A realistic view, but believe it or not, some buyers demand "the newest."

As for selling "old" guns, there have been many cases of production guns that were made obsolescent by newer models and have remained, as complete guns or unfinished parts for years, finally selling decades after having been technically discontinued.

Jim

geetarman · February 9, 2013, 09:31 AM

Considering the wait time, I am thinking the Springfield loaded M1911-A1 that I have on order is being hand hewn out of solid stainless steel by imported workers from the Black Forest and being transported by 35 oiled virgin slave girls to my FFL dealer where it will be reverently placed on a Royal Purple pillow for my examination.

I am thinking my son may be the first to fondle it ( The gun

)

carguychris · February 9, 2013, 10:32 AM

FWIW my S&W M&P9 has a shipping date on the box end label that is only 10 days prior to the day I bought it.

However, it's a Cabela's distributor exclusive- the Range & Carry Kit with the FDE frame. Since Cabela's is both the retailer AND the distributor, AND the pistol was a locally advertised sale item, I suspect that my experience is the exception rather than the rule!

BTW this was in early 2010, when pistol sales had been a bit soft for several months. How times have changed...

kahrguy · February 9, 2013, 11:58 AM

May wifes m&p9c came from s&w to the wholsaler then to our lgs to my wifes hands in a weeks and 4 days. Can't get much more quicker. Mine was the complete opposite of that.

KyJim · February 11, 2013, 08:07 PM

I purchased a new Dan Wesson 10mm PM7 from my dealer two years after they were discontinued. The dealer had stocked up on them when DW announced they were discontinuing the model. I think I got the last one from the LGS.

car · February 14, 2013, 10:41 AM

It can take years, or just a matter of days depending on how much demad there is for a certain model and how good the manufacturer and distributor is at first in, first out inventory control.

TxFlyFish · February 14, 2013, 09:21 PM

Glock is about 2 months currently based on my box and you know they sell out as soon as they hit the shelves

Arkhog · February 16, 2013, 10:26 PM

Two weeks ago I bought a new (at least it was sold to me as new) Smith and Wesson Model 640-3 revolver. The dealer had a store in a small town nearby although he sells at every show in the area.

I could tell that this gun was shop worn. It still had the zip tie on it from the last show. He was in a good mood and gave me a good OTD price and I bought it with the box and papers including the warranty card.

When I got home I noticed that the box contained the fired case that some states require. It was dated April 2010. That is 2 years and 10 months.

I called the guy and asked for an explanation. He said that he bought several of this model and stashed them in his safe. Mine was the last one on the bottom. I don't know that I believe him. I did, however, get the model that I wanted at a fair price.

I also once bought a Sig P226 SSE from a dealer at a show. It was sold to me as new. It was fired 2 and a half years from my purchase date.

February 6, 2013, 11:05 AM	#1
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	How long does it take a new gun to reach the shelf? When I bought my Remington R1 new in March of 2012, it wasn't exactly a "scarce" model, but gun shops weren't swimming in them either. Most stores seemed to have none, one or maybe two in stock, and they didn't seem to sit on the shelf very long. So imagine my surprise when I find out that my pistol was already over a year old when I bought it. Likewise, a co-worker of mine just bought a new Sig 250C two weeks ago in the midst of the buying frenzy, and the manufacture date on the box is from 2009. So where do most new guns spend their time before the first owner takes them home? Are they sitting at the factory, at the distributor, or on the gun store shelf? Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 6, 2013 at 11:25 AM.

February 7, 2013, 11:58 PM	#8
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	It can take years. I've bought new guns that had been discontinued for years. It probably sits for awhile at the factory and then definitely at the distributor until it's ordered by a retailer. I think that sometimes they get pushed to a back shelf and sit for longer than intended. Then, it can sit at the retailer quite a long time if the retailer guesses incorrectly at demand level or at the saleability of a particular firearm. They might even get sent back to a distributor if the retailer can't move them. The SIG P250 is probably an example of a gun that retailers thought would fly off the shelves given their price and unique features. Instead, they haven't proved to be very good sellers in many areas. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 9, 2013, 09:31 AM	#12
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	Considering the wait time, I am thinking the Springfield loaded M1911-A1 that I have on order is being hand hewn out of solid stainless steel by imported workers from the Black Forest and being transported by 35 oiled virgin slave girls to my FFL dealer where it will be reverently placed on a Royal Purple pillow for my examination. I am thinking my son may be the first to fondle it ( The gun ) __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

February 9, 2013, 10:32 AM	#13
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	FWIW my S&W M&P9 has a shipping date on the box end label that is only 10 days prior to the day I bought it. However, it's a Cabela's distributor exclusive- the Range & Carry Kit with the FDE frame. Since Cabela's is both the retailer AND the distributor, AND the pistol was a locally advertised sale item, I suspect that my experience is the exception rather than the rule! BTW this was in early 2010, when pistol sales had been a bit soft for several months. How times have changed... __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 16, 2013, 10:26 PM	#18
Arkhog Member Join Date: August 8, 2006 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 99	Two old "new" guns Two weeks ago I bought a new (at least it was sold to me as new) Smith and Wesson Model 640-3 revolver. The dealer had a store in a small town nearby although he sells at every show in the area. I could tell that this gun was shop worn. It still had the zip tie on it from the last show. He was in a good mood and gave me a good OTD price and I bought it with the box and papers including the warranty card. When I got home I noticed that the box contained the fired case that some states require. It was dated April 2010. That is 2 years and 10 months. I called the guy and asked for an explanation. He said that he bought several of this model and stashed them in his safe. Mine was the last one on the bottom. I don't know that I believe him. I did, however, get the model that I wanted at a fair price. I also once bought a Sig P226 SSE from a dealer at a show. It was sold to me as new. It was fired 2 and a half years from my purchase date.

February 6, 2013, 11:16 AM	#2
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	Our general store is the same. They have model that come directly from the makers to wholsaler to dealer as quickly as all can process them. Then they have a few that seem to set around for a could year. I just recieve a handgun I have never seen in a gun shop that sat in a wholsalers stock for almost a year befor I ordered it. Our general store does not raise prices ether on those older models. Might see two side by side with a large difference in price.

February 6, 2013, 05:21 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I suspect most of the time "old" guns are the result of stockpiling, either at the factory or the distributor, or both. Most gun factories do not make all the lines all the time, they simply are not big enough. So they will tool up for the Model X, turn out however many they think will be needed until the next cycle, then break the line down and tool up for the Model Y and so on. If things work right, the stock room will run out of Model X's just as the line begins turning them out again. But if the cycle is disrupted, say the Model X proves very popular so management decides to extend that model's production time, things can go wrong. Conversely, guns are not like bananas. They don't go bad in storage, so if some Model X's are still in the stockroom when new ones come off the line, the new ones go on top of the pile, and the older ones can remain on the bottom for another cycle or two. The same can happen at the distributors or even at a large store or chain. That is part of the reason why companies don't like to publish serial number/date of manufacture data. Some folks don't want an "old" gun, even though it is absolutely identical to a "new" gun. Jim

February 6, 2013, 06:42 PM	#6
Grizz12 Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2012 Posts: 527	manufactures sell in bulk to save on shipping costs and distributor buy in bulk for the same reason. Retailers buy however many they think they can move or they can afford. I imagine every distributor has empty shelves now because EVERYTHING is selling

February 7, 2013, 11:52 PM	#7
jason_iowa Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 686	The Scheels near me is closing to move to a new bigger location. Even the guns they had on "sale" were overpriced with used ones being priced as new ones online. They had a very good selection. I have an uncle who is a very small dealer. Hobby really not his livelihood. He is usually able to get me stuff within 3 or 4 months of a release date. How long they start manufacturing before release varies from company to company and how big the production run is I would guess. 250s are done I believe as well. They were not a good gun and sold even worse. I'm a huge sig fan but I would sell that thing off pronto...

February 8, 2013, 11:45 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"... the serial number is just a number to me." A realistic view, but believe it or not, some buyers demand "the newest." As for selling "old" guns, there have been many cases of production guns that were made obsolescent by newer models and have remained, as complete guns or unfinished parts for years, finally selling decades after having been technically discontinued. Jim

February 9, 2013, 11:58 AM	#14
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	May wifes m&p9c came from s&w to the wholsaler then to our lgs to my wifes hands in a weeks and 4 days. Can't get much more quicker. Mine was the complete opposite of that.

February 11, 2013, 08:07 PM	#15
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I purchased a new Dan Wesson 10mm PM7 from my dealer two years after they were discontinued. The dealer had stocked up on them when DW announced they were discontinuing the model. I think I got the last one from the LGS.

February 14, 2013, 10:41 AM	#16
car Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 60	It can take years, or just a matter of days depending on how much demad there is for a certain model and how good the manufacturer and distributor is at first in, first out inventory control.

February 14, 2013, 09:21 PM	#17
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	Glock is about 2 months currently based on my box and you know they sell out as soon as they hit the shelves

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