14" Mossberg 500 - Non-NFA!

Uncle Malice · July 30, 2012, 03:51 PM

Has anyone else done this? I recently came across this page when I was checking out the birdshead style grips. It seems to be completely legal with no NFA paperwork required due to the pistol grip. The gun must have shipped from the factory as a PGO gun and therefore not be classified as a "shotgun", but rather just a firearm. As such, it only requires OAL be at least 26" and with the Raptor grip and 14" barrel, the Mossberg 500 becomes a 26.5" gun.

I picked up a 500 Cruiser today for $324 OTD, ordered the Raptor grip, and also ordered the complete Mossberg 590 14" front end as described on the other page on the website. Their prices were exactly right, down to the penny. I'm really excited about this. I have a full size 5901A1 20", but this is a great little defensive gun, without the wait for ATF paperwork.

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Mrgunsngear · July 30, 2012, 04:08 PM

I've heard of this before and dig it. It's tough to shoot the pistol grip shotguns accurately but it's fun

Creeper · July 30, 2012, 04:09 PM

AOW's (Any Other Weapon) transfer with a $5.00 tax, paid to the ATF.

"A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip and no buttstock is categorized as an AOW (smooth-bore pistol) rather than a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS). The GCA describes a shotgun as, “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…”."

Don't fit it with a shoulder stock... that'd be illegal.

Cheers,
C

Uncle Malice · July 30, 2012, 05:02 PM

Yep. I'm talking specifically with the birds head grip. Nice and compact. Even with the 18.5" its nice and handy.

et45 · July 30, 2012, 06:19 PM

that would be fun to shoot with those short Agulia shot shells

dwaawd · July 30, 2012, 07:33 PM

Uncle, I wanted to do that but I cannot "prove" my P/G Defender I bought in 1985 was purchased as pistol grip only...so I settled for this with the 18" barrel. Still, I wonder if State Laws could limit the 14" length?
Thumb:

AKsRul.e · July 31, 2012, 02:14 AM

WARNING

YOU MUST STILL COMPLY WITH YOUR STATE LAWS !!!!

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03101.htm

A -7- IV

kozak6 · July 31, 2012, 02:55 AM

This sort of "non-NFA" item makes me nervous.

In the letters, the BATFE basically says, "Yeah, even though the law actually says AOW's must be able to be concealed on a person, we prefer to pretend it says something about a 26" overall length, even though it actually doesn't. And because it actually doesn't, we could also decide that a firearm longer than 26" is an AOW if we wanted to. So there."

State law says

Quote:

8. "Prohibited weapon":

(a) Includes the following:

(iv) A rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches, or shotgun with a barrel length of less than eighteen inches, or any firearm that is made from a rifle or shotgun and that, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Unless federally registered.

So, an important question is if Arizona law would consider such a firearm to be a shotgun even if the BATFE doesn't.

Uncle Malice · July 31, 2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

So, an important question is if Arizona law would consider such a firearm to be a shotgun even if the BATFE doesn't.

If it wasn't sold as a "shotgun", I don't think I would have a problem trying to protest that in court. I am, as the Shockwave site suggested, emailing the ATF to get a return letter, specific to my serial number, indicating that it would be considered legal.

AZ is quite friendly with the gun laws. I'm pretty sure it would be okay - but I will likely try to get confirmation from local PD as well. Obviosuly, I'm not trying to do anything illegal here, so hopefully this thread is all within the rules. I believe it is.

Quote:

Uncle, I wanted to do that but I cannot "prove" my P/G Defender I bought in 1985 was purchased as pistol grip only...

From my understanding, you should be able to send a letter to the ATF with the description, make, model, serial number... and what you want to do to it. They will send a letter back with confirmation on how the gun was originally manufactured and whether you would be authorized to make such modifications.

Thanks for the input, guys!

jackpine · July 31, 2012, 11:37 PM

sorry to tell you but you would be making a AOW that way and is an NFA weapon. If you get BATFE documentation to tell you otherwise great but remember with the ATF it didn't happen if it's not on paper and even then they can change the rules as needed.

Bill DeShivs · August 1, 2012, 01:27 AM

jackpine-
Do a little research. You are wrong!

WV_gunner · August 1, 2012, 11:04 AM

Legal or not, I wouldn't be interested. For 2 reasons, impractical and who says in a few months they won't change their minds and make it illegal without the proper paperwork and such? It's only legal because the definition of a shotgun says it's fired from the shoulder and this gun has a pistol grip. Technically the Mossburg 500 is designed to be fired from the shoulder, they just so happen to sell them with pistol grips too. I really don't see how that 4 1/2 inches will make a big difference. Heck, I have a 24 inch barrel on my Mossburg and that's short in my mind.
And legal or not, does the local police know its legal? Even if they do know it's legal, expect to be hassled if you're ever seen with it. I know that a few cops here would take it from you and you'd probably go to jail. I wouldn't chance it, not worth going to jail for a night, possibly longer if convicted, just to have a 14 inch barreled Mossburg. I'm sure they'd find something illegal with the situation.
Mine has a Slugster barrel with rifle sights and a wood stock. Going to refinish the wood and use a 6 shell side saddle. It's gonna have regular slugs for home defense and sabot slugs for hunting.

Uncle Malice · August 2, 2012, 10:31 AM

I sent off a letter to the ATF for clarification so I can have written documentation that it is indeed a legal modification just in case I ever get questioned by law enforcement.

Quote:

who says in a few months they won't change their minds and make it illegal without the proper paperwork and such?

Can they just make arbitrary changes like that without grandfathering in those that are already made legally? Even if they do... all I would need to do is throw the orifinal front end back on it... Not a big deal and doesn't take long to change.

Quote:

And legal or not, does the local police know its legal? Even if they do know it's legal, expect to be hassled if you're ever seen with it. I know that a few cops here would take it from you and you'd probably go to jail. I wouldn't chance it, not worth going to jail for a night, possibly longer if convicted, just to have a 14 inch barreled Mossburg. I'm sure they'd find something illegal with the situation.

Possibly, but that's why I want the document from the ATF. I don't expect to be hasselled here in AZ. We're a pretty gun friendly state with..mostly... knowledgable police officers when it comes to firearms. With that said... this is why I will be keeping a copy of the ATF document with the gun.

I think it will be a fun project, and if I end up not liking it, I can always put the factory parts back on again since it's not being registered as an NFA weapon. I'll update back if/when I get a response from the ATF on this issue. I won't do the modifications until I have written clarification.

WV_gunner · August 2, 2012, 05:07 PM

WV is gun friendly too, but that doesn't mean the police won't bend the rules a little. This gun is too little known, not worth it. I have a feeling the police wouldn't even look at the atf paper. So you go to jail, the judge would then decide if the gun is legal.

July 30, 2012, 03:51 PM	#1
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	14" Mossberg 500 - Non-NFA! Has anyone else done this? I recently came across this page when I was checking out the birdshead style grips. It seems to be completely legal with no NFA paperwork required due to the pistol grip. The gun must have shipped from the factory as a PGO gun and therefore not be classified as a "shotgun", but rather just a firearm. As such, it only requires OAL be at least 26" and with the Raptor grip and 14" barrel, the Mossberg 500 becomes a 26.5" gun. I picked up a 500 Cruiser today for $324 OTD, ordered the Raptor grip, and also ordered the complete Mossberg 590 14" front end as described on the other page on the website. Their prices were exactly right, down to the penny. I'm really excited about this. I have a full size 5901A1 20", but this is a great little defensive gun, without the wait for ATF paperwork. http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

July 30, 2012, 04:08 PM	#2
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	I've heard of this before and dig it. It's tough to shoot the pistol grip shotguns accurately but it's fun __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

July 30, 2012, 04:09 PM	#3
Creeper Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Woooooshington Posts: 1,797	AOW's (Any Other Weapon) transfer with a $5.00 tax, paid to the ATF. "A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip and no buttstock is categorized as an AOW (smooth-bore pistol) rather than a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS). The GCA describes a shotgun as, “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…”." Don't fit it with a shoulder stock... that'd be illegal. Cheers, C __________________ Shoulder Drive Nicholson Club

July 30, 2012, 05:02 PM	#4
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	Yep. I'm talking specifically with the birds head grip. Nice and compact. Even with the 18.5" its nice and handy. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

August 1, 2012, 01:27 AM	#11
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	jackpine- Do a little research. You are wrong! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 30, 2012, 06:19 PM	#5
et45 Member Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 25	that would be fun to shoot with those short Agulia shot shells

July 30, 2012, 07:33 PM	#6
dwaawd Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Location: Kalifornstan Posts: 73	Uncle, I wanted to do that but I cannot "prove" my P/G Defender I bought in 1985 was purchased as pistol grip only...so I settled for this with the 18" barrel. Still, I wonder if State Laws could limit the 14" length? Thumb:

July 31, 2012, 02:14 AM	#7
AKsRul.e Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 234	WARNING YOU MUST STILL COMPLY WITH YOUR STATE LAWS !!!! http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03101.htm A -7- IV

July 31, 2012, 11:37 PM	#10
jackpine Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Posts: 351	sorry to tell you but you would be making a AOW that way and is an NFA weapon. If you get BATFE documentation to tell you otherwise great but remember with the ATF it didn't happen if it's not on paper and even then they can change the rules as needed.

August 1, 2012, 11:04 AM	#12
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	Legal or not, I wouldn't be interested. For 2 reasons, impractical and who says in a few months they won't change their minds and make it illegal without the proper paperwork and such? It's only legal because the definition of a shotgun says it's fired from the shoulder and this gun has a pistol grip. Technically the Mossburg 500 is designed to be fired from the shoulder, they just so happen to sell them with pistol grips too. I really don't see how that 4 1/2 inches will make a big difference. Heck, I have a 24 inch barrel on my Mossburg and that's short in my mind. And legal or not, does the local police know its legal? Even if they do know it's legal, expect to be hassled if you're ever seen with it. I know that a few cops here would take it from you and you'd probably go to jail. I wouldn't chance it, not worth going to jail for a night, possibly longer if convicted, just to have a 14 inch barreled Mossburg. I'm sure they'd find something illegal with the situation. Mine has a Slugster barrel with rifle sights and a wood stock. Going to refinish the wood and use a 6 shell side saddle. It's gonna have regular slugs for home defense and sabot slugs for hunting.

August 2, 2012, 05:07 PM	#14
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	WV is gun friendly too, but that doesn't mean the police won't bend the rules a little. This gun is too little known, not worth it. I have a feeling the police wouldn't even look at the atf paper. So you go to jail, the judge would then decide if the gun is legal.