The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 13, 2005, 10:05 AM   #1
dentodoc
Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2004
Location: Northwest Kansas
Posts: 59
Controlled Feed vs. Push Feed?

I am rather new to gun forums and I would like for someone to explain to me what is the difference between controlled feed and push feed in a bolt action rifle, and more importantly to me, which one is better, and why?

Thanks!
dentodoc is offline  
Old August 13, 2005, 10:55 AM   #2
impact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: the great state of Texas
Posts: 854
Most all bolt guns are push feed. The pre 64 and post 64 "Classic" line of Winchesters are control feed. There may be other gun manufactures I don't know of? The pre 64s and post 64 Classics use a mauser type bolt. With a control feed you can hold the gun upside down and the cartridge will remain in the reciver when you work the bolt to feed a cartridge in the chamber. The bolt face holds the cartridge and will not fall away.

With a push feed the bolt just pushes the cartridge into the chamber area. The mag holds the cartridge. The bolt has to strip the cartridge from the mag. The cartridge is all ready part way in the chamber area before the cartridge pops loose from the mag.

Most all of the old military bolt guns are control feed. Like my Springfeild 03 which has a bolt that looks like a mauser bolt and the 1917.

For hunting whitetail any one of the two actions will work just fine. Some people go ape S**t crazy over control feed guns. There is more work involved in making a control type bolt. I have both. Like both. It don't matter to me ether way which type action I hunt with.
impact is offline  
Old August 13, 2005, 11:21 AM   #3
Rich Lucibella
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,229
Impact-
Friendly reminder: Please check the announcement at the top of each Forum.
Rich
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Rich Lucibella is offline  
Old August 13, 2005, 01:23 PM   #4
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
Folks who hunt dangerous game prefer the controlled feed to the push feed. If you're dodging something with claws and teeth or big feet--all coupled with a Bad Attitude--you want the utmost in reliability in reloading whille you're stumbling around.

For the most common North American hunting, "Hit don't make no nevermind, nohow."

As a separate matter, the push-feed action more completely encloses the head of the cartridge case. For a reloader, this is a safety feature in case of too much enthusiasm as to how max is a maximum powder charge.

Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Old August 15, 2005, 12:12 AM   #5
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,166
Accuracy vs. Ultimate Reliability

I was led to believe from reading gun magazines that the push feed designed rifles are generally built with more inherent accuracy while the controlled feed rifles have a general tendancy toward being more reliable. I know Remingtons are push feed rifles, aren't Savages too? I've read about their easier to adjust headspacing method of production, could this be somehow related to their rifles being push feeds? They certainly have become popularly known as the most accurate affordable rifles out of the box as Remingtons were previously regarded. Aren't Rugers also a type of a controlled round feeding rifle that aren't really well known for having outstanding accuracy?
arcticap is offline  
Old August 15, 2005, 11:47 AM   #6
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
arcticap, IMO there are just too many variables for it to be that simple. I've had three Rugers that were/are tack drivers.

FWIW, Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Old August 15, 2005, 11:53 AM   #7
artsmom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 334
All in all, I prefer the push feed. You can throw a shell on top of the magazine floor plate and push it into the chamber, with the extractor claw sliding over the rim as it chambers. A controlled round type won't let you do that, it has to have the cartridge in the magazine and pick it up first.

I never had anything that made me think I wouldn't trust my life with a push feed rifle.
artsmom is offline  
Old August 15, 2005, 03:49 PM   #8
308LAW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2005
Posts: 210
I agree push feed, who needs to chamber a round upside down LOL
308LAW is offline  
Old August 18, 2005, 10:18 PM   #9
Smokey Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2001
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 2,106
Control feed need

308 LAW--To answer yr question, YOU DO, if you just shot and annoyed a Cape Buffalo, and began backing up, and tripped and fell over an ant nest, just as the CB locates you and decides that you need squashing.

The people who hunt dangerous game call it that for a reason. They also like to be able to chamber rounds upside down, for a reason.
__________________
God Bless America

--Smokey Joe

Last edited by Smokey Joe; August 18, 2005 at 10:19 PM. Reason: misspelling
Smokey Joe is offline  
Old August 19, 2005, 03:38 AM   #10
308LAW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2005
Posts: 210
Since I dont hunt in Africa I dought I will ever need one for that reason. The push feed's seem to be more accurate and bench work single shot is much easier with a push feed. I own both types and generally prefer push feeds, however I do realize that you rarely see Remingtons in Africa for this reason.
308LAW is offline  
Old August 19, 2005, 08:37 AM   #11
Fremmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,482
I've shot push and controlled rifles, and I can't discern a difference in accuracy between them. I hesitate to believe that a push rifle will be more "inherently" accurate than a controlled rifle. There may be a discernable difference to a very highly skilled shooter who regularly shoots competition benchrest, but that ain't me.

Likewise, comparing the reliability of the two types of rifles, the push rifles I've shot have been just as reliable as the controlled rifles.
Fremmer is offline  
Old August 19, 2005, 09:48 AM   #12
artsmom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 334
Anyone that truly worried about making sure that there is a second cartridge in the chamber ready to fire in the most reliable and foolproof way possible is using a double rifle.

I find it amusing that people tout the controlled round feeding on a Model 70 and overlook the damnable three position safety as being less than user friendly in situations where minor mistakes can be catastrophic. I had an older gentleman tell me of his brother who, upon coming face to face with a grizzly bear, flipped the safety halfway ( the position where the action can be cycled, chambering and ejecting cartridges, but unable to fire), and controlled round cycled all of his .375 shells out on the ground before he figured out why he wasn't hearing a bang. The bear grew bored and departed, so it was a good ending for all.
artsmom is offline  
Old August 19, 2005, 10:18 AM   #13
Smokey Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2001
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 2,106
Lucky for bear? Lucky for the guy?

Well, Artsmom, as our friend Rudyard Kipling once said,

"...If you can keep your head, when all about you are losing theirs, and blaming it on you..."
__________________
God Bless America

--Smokey Joe
Smokey Joe is offline  
Old August 19, 2005, 09:35 PM   #14
impact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: the great state of Texas
Posts: 854
BR guys will not even consider the Winchester action for competition. Push feed or control feed! Maybe with the Remington action if the action is sleeved. The BR guys really like three lug bolt guns. The Cooper action is a three lug action! The actions that the BR guys talk about. Are actions I have never heard of before!
impact is offline  
Old August 20, 2005, 02:11 AM   #15
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,166
I think we all know what kind of bolt action rifles most, if not all of the police sharpshooters and the military snipers use.
arcticap is offline  
Old August 20, 2005, 11:15 PM   #16
impact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: the great state of Texas
Posts: 854
Sharp shooting is one thing. Shooting .150 groups at 100 time and time again is another.

This is a BR place I like to hang out sometimes. http://www.benchrest.com/forums/ Lots of good reading
impact is offline  
Old August 20, 2005, 11:31 PM   #17
Rich Lucibella
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artsmom
I find it amusing that people tout the controlled round feeding on a Model 70 and overlook the damnable three position safety as being less than user friendly in situations where minor mistakes can be catastrophic.
Hmmm, you may have a point there. Not to mention all those damnable long action guns. I repeatedly hear about hunters short stroking the .375 H&H. Probably a bad cartridge choice....couldn't be anything else. Could it?

Moving to another issue that's been brought up here, it never ceases to amaze me that otherwise knowledgeable shooters insist the same gun for benchrest or snipercraft should be just fine for dangerous game. (They then add insult to injury by assuming optics are equally interchangeable in these pursuits.)

I'm not gonna weigh in on my personal preferences for dangerous game (which I **have** actually hunted). I'll simply point out that a 2 MOA gun is no less "accurate" than a 1/4 MOA gun from field positions.....unless, of course, that result is being described on the internet.

If field accuracy is not available in your rifle, push-feed or controlled, sell it or turn it into a tomato stake. Then, field accuracy of your rifles being a given, pick the one that offers the greatest **reliability** when you go after stuff that's willing to trample, drag or eat you....and one other thing: learn how to work the safety, cycle and operate it; that's always a plus.

Rich
__________________
S.W.A.T. Magazine
Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World
Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook
Rich Lucibella is offline  
Old August 21, 2005, 06:51 AM   #18
Crosshair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,333
Art Eatman

As a separate matter, the push-feed action more completely encloses the head of the cartridge case. For a reloader, this is a safety feature in case of too much enthusiasm as to how max is a maximum powder charge.


Been there, done that, had to replace extractor and ejector.
Crosshair is offline  
Old August 21, 2005, 06:56 AM   #19
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
I enjoy tweaking on a rifle and playing with handloads to get a package with which I can shoot inside one MOA. Fun to do. But it has little to do with my needs in deer hunting.

All I know about dangerous game is from reading. From what I read, though, it would appear that most shots are taken inside 50 yards. Tales of ten to twenty yards seem common.

At fifty yards, a three-MOA group is 1.5" in diameter. I'd think it would be difficult to miss a kill zone, and few rifles DON'T do better.

Which says that designing for reliability is the primary requirement. With today's capabilities in machining, field accuracy is hard to avoid.

But it's still the "loose nut behind the wheel" that controls the outcome.

, Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05917 seconds with 8 queries