Form 1 by an individual?

JBS · July 23, 2009, 05:42 PM

Ok, guidance request without flaming please.

Assume the following: You want to make a sbr and you need a form 1.

Question 1 : can any individual fill it out and submit the form 1 or does it have to be done by a C2, C3 or ?

Question 2: assuming you get the F1 back then can that individual add the stock or perform the act or does it have to be done by a c2,c3 or?
___
I know you have to wait for the stamp, pay 200.00 and the cleo or corp matter.
I have read the forms and the forums and never really seen or i'm blood shot in the issue. Thank you.

Willie Lowman · July 23, 2009, 06:30 PM

This forum needs a sticky on this...

You can submit the Form 1 to ATF with the blue ATF fingerprint cards, pictures, $200, and certificate of compliance. www.titleii.com/TitleII.com/Welcome.html You can get forms there. For two page forms like form 4 make damn sure they are printed front and back, if they are on two pages they WILL get sent back. YOu can get forms from the ATF as well.

Once you get the form back it is your baby. If you want the barrel cut by a gunsmith, take the gun to them and stay while they do it... Just remember that NFA guns are in a diffrent legal area than regular title 1 guns. You can't just drop off a SBS at the gunsmith and come back next week. You must fill out a form 5 if the gun is to be left with someone else for work. (I hear you can do other things but I don't know for sure.)

Boone Hillbilly · July 23, 2009, 07:32 PM

You can do any of the mods you would like yourself. If you make any changes to the weapon then you have to notify the BATFE in writing of what changes were made, this is after you have a form one in your hand of course

oldcspsarge · July 23, 2009, 08:44 PM

Form-1 are for approval of an individual to manufacture an NFA firearm themselves, AFTER receiving the approved form back from BATF with a tax stamp on it.

Any FFL gunsmith can work on any NFA firearm as long as they have a copy of your approved form. Form-5's for repairs are no longer required.

Skans · July 24, 2009, 09:46 AM

I believe Form 1's are used anytime a non-registered gun is required to be registered for the first time. I was required to register my USAS-12 on a Form 1, eventhough I didn't manufacture it or modify it in any way.

As a side note, I'm wondering if all those unregistered USAS-12's and Streetsweepers are now defacto "legal" since Saiga 12 gauges can now accept up to 30 round drum magazines? How would BATFE go about prosecuting a case by saying that A needs to be registered but B doesn't need to be registered, eventhough the features of A and B are identical?

Chipperman · July 24, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

How would BATFE go about prosecuting a case by saying that A needs to be registered but B doesn't need to be registered, eventhough the features of A and B are identical?

Was that a rhetorical question?

James K · July 24, 2009, 09:07 PM

If I understood BATFE correctly, the Form 1 is an application for an individual to manufacture and register an NFA firearm (approval will NOT be given for manufacture of a machinegun). But the Form 1 applies ONLY to the individual and HE/SHE must do the work PERSONALLY.

If you apply using the Form 1 and pay the tax, then farm the work out to a gunsmith, he/she must have a manufacturers license with the SOT stamp; then the manufacturer makes the item and it costs $200 and a Form 4 to get it to you. So it is pointless to do the Form 1 and pay the tax, then have to do a Form 4 and pay the tax again. It would be simpler to just have the manufacturer do what you want, then Form 4 it to you.

Jim

Willie Lowman · July 26, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

As a side note, I'm wondering if all those unregistered USAS-12's and Streetsweepers are now defacto "legal" since Saiga 12 gauges can now accept up to 30 round drum magazines? How would BATFE go about prosecuting a case by saying that A needs to be registered but B doesn't need to be registered, eventhough the features of A and B are identical?

No, the Siaga is just living on borrowed time.

Skans · July 27, 2009, 07:37 AM

Quote:

If I understood BATFE correctly, the Form 1 is an application for an individual to manufacture and register an NFA firearm (approval will NOT be given for manufacture of a machinegun). But the Form 1 applies ONLY to the individual and HE/SHE must do the work PERSONALLY.

Not correct. See USAS-12, and Cobray Streetsweeper. They were required to be registed by anyone who possessed them. They were all registered using Form 1's.

James K · July 27, 2009, 03:58 PM

The Form 1 can be used for purposes other than making an NFA firearm, but the OP question was about that, not about registering existing guns because of a change in the law/regulations.

My note about the manufacturing having to be done by the individual named on the Form 1 is from BATFE, and was in response to the statement that the person named on the Form 1 can have someone do the work. BATFE stated that the work must be done by that person. They further stated that that person can do the work at a gunsmith shop or machine shop, using shop equipment, and that a gunsmith (or anyone else) can give advice, but no one else is allowed to do any of the work.

Jim

JBS · July 27, 2009, 11:03 PM

Ok the more i learn the more to tack down.

once you get the F1 back you must then have the receiver engraved in a CONSPICUOUS location ON THE RECEIVER, and must be at least 1/16th" tall and .003" deep.

Is this Correct?

So this would be the name of the registering person/corp/trust.
Example:

Johndoe Corp
Whackanut, Texas

Correct?

jmorris · July 28, 2009, 08:35 AM

correct

July 23, 2009, 05:42 PM	#1
JBS Junior Member Join Date: July 23, 2009 Posts: 4	Form 1 by an individual? Ok, guidance request without flaming please. Assume the following: You want to make a sbr and you need a form 1. Question 1 : can any individual fill it out and submit the form 1 or does it have to be done by a C2, C3 or ? Question 2: assuming you get the F1 back then can that individual add the stock or perform the act or does it have to be done by a c2,c3 or? ___ I know you have to wait for the stamp, pay 200.00 and the cleo or corp matter. I have read the forms and the forums and never really seen or i'm blood shot in the issue. Thank you.

July 23, 2009, 06:30 PM	#2
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	This forum needs a sticky on this... You can submit the Form 1 to ATF with the blue ATF fingerprint cards, pictures, $200, and certificate of compliance. www.titleii.com/TitleII.com/Welcome.html You can get forms there. For two page forms like form 4 make damn sure they are printed front and back, if they are on two pages they WILL get sent back. YOu can get forms from the ATF as well. Once you get the form back it is your baby. If you want the barrel cut by a gunsmith, take the gun to them and stay while they do it... Just remember that NFA guns are in a diffrent legal area than regular title 1 guns. You can't just drop off a SBS at the gunsmith and come back next week. You must fill out a form 5 if the gun is to be left with someone else for work. (I hear you can do other things but I don't know for sure.) __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

July 23, 2009, 07:32 PM	#3
Boone Hillbilly Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2007 Posts: 123	You can do any of the mods you would like yourself. If you make any changes to the weapon then you have to notify the BATFE in writing of what changes were made, this is after you have a form one in your hand of course __________________ God Bless!!

July 27, 2009, 11:03 PM	#11
JBS Junior Member Join Date: July 23, 2009 Posts: 4	1 more question on Form 1 on engraving the receiver Ok the more i learn the more to tack down. once you get the F1 back you must then have the receiver engraved in a CONSPICUOUS location ON THE RECEIVER, and must be at least 1/16th" tall and .003" deep. Is this Correct? So this would be the name of the registering person/corp/trust. Example: Johndoe Corp Whackanut, Texas Correct?

July 23, 2009, 08:44 PM	#4
oldcspsarge Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 441	Form-1 are for approval of an individual to manufacture an NFA firearm themselves, AFTER receiving the approved form back from BATF with a tax stamp on it. Any FFL gunsmith can work on any NFA firearm as long as they have a copy of your approved form. Form-5's for repairs are no longer required.

July 24, 2009, 09:46 AM	#5
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I believe Form 1's are used anytime a non-registered gun is required to be registered for the first time. I was required to register my USAS-12 on a Form 1, eventhough I didn't manufacture it or modify it in any way. As a side note, I'm wondering if all those unregistered USAS-12's and Streetsweepers are now defacto "legal" since Saiga 12 gauges can now accept up to 30 round drum magazines? How would BATFE go about prosecuting a case by saying that A needs to be registered but B doesn't need to be registered, eventhough the features of A and B are identical?

July 24, 2009, 09:07 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If I understood BATFE correctly, the Form 1 is an application for an individual to manufacture and register an NFA firearm (approval will NOT be given for manufacture of a machinegun). But the Form 1 applies ONLY to the individual and HE/SHE must do the work PERSONALLY. If you apply using the Form 1 and pay the tax, then farm the work out to a gunsmith, he/she must have a manufacturers license with the SOT stamp; then the manufacturer makes the item and it costs $200 and a Form 4 to get it to you. So it is pointless to do the Form 1 and pay the tax, then have to do a Form 4 and pay the tax again. It would be simpler to just have the manufacturer do what you want, then Form 4 it to you. Jim

July 27, 2009, 03:58 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Form 1 can be used for purposes other than making an NFA firearm, but the OP question was about that, not about registering existing guns because of a change in the law/regulations. My note about the manufacturing having to be done by the individual named on the Form 1 is from BATFE, and was in response to the statement that the person named on the Form 1 can have someone do the work. BATFE stated that the work must be done by that person. They further stated that that person can do the work at a gunsmith shop or machine shop, using shop equipment, and that a gunsmith (or anyone else) can give advice, but no one else is allowed to do any of the work. Jim

July 28, 2009, 08:35 AM	#12
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	correct