looking for advice

[riverratt]

I just got an xd 9mm for the wife, or to carry on hot days. Along with the gun i bought the following:

Rem 9mm brass

CCI small pistol primers #500

Ranier 124gr rn bullets

Lee 3 die set for 9mm

I have everything else at home.

When i got home i started setting my dies making dummy rounds and ran into an issue i havent had yet. After setting my seating die i could still easily push the bullet in. I rpulled the bullet resized the brass reset the expander die (only expanded the end of the case .003 reseated the bullet with a light crimp. That helped but the bullet can still be pushed into the case. It does take alot of force to push the bullet in and at that it only sets back aless than .010'. I have been loading .45acp .230gr lead bullets for years and never had this problem. My questions are:

is this normal for 9mm.(i dont see how but stranger things have happend)

Did i do something wrong with my setup( i know its caused by not enough neck tention but dont know how to adjust this)

And wile im here im looking for a cleaner powder than unique that i can load both .45acp and 9mm 124gr. Any suggestions?

[jwrowland77]

I love Titegroup but you might get the Titegroup streak. It's a fast powder.

I also like the way Autocomp performs in my 9mm and .45 ACP

As far as die setup for crimp for 9mm, where the case mouth is, it should measure between .376-.378. I have mine set right in the middle at .377.

[chiefr]

My first suspicion is you are seating the bullet to deep. Second would be not enough crimp. How far is the bottom of the die from the shell holder when you seat the bullet?



I load all my autos on a Dillon these days. Last stage is a taper crimp. Never had a problem like yours.

[bedbugbilly]

What is the measurement for the diameter of the bullet?

I've never used that one - flat base or chamfered bottom?

How far into the case is your expander going? It doesn't sound like you are putting it in too far. Have you tried sizing a case, not belling the mouth and seeing if you can seat the bullet? If you can, is there enough tension?

What is the OAL that's recommended with that particular brand/bullet? As mentioned, are you seating too far in?

You say you have a 3 die Lee set. Are you seating/crimping in the same operation? If so, after checking the other things, try seating and taper crimping in two different operations.

I really don't think you're doing anything terribly wrong - it's just going to take a while to eliminate things and see what will work for you. It probably is something as simple as something being out of adjustment. If you can, measure the diameter of your bullet and the inside of the mouth and see what you get. Then check the OAL that's recommended and see if you are seating the bullet where it should be. Try seating and crimping in two different operations.

I use the 4 die Lee set for 9mm with bullets I cast. I'm using a Lee .356-120-TC lead bullet that drops about .358 from the mold. I size them to .357, load them in used range brass and end up with an OAL of 1.052. It may be that the bullet you are using has a different recommend OAL. I only flat he opening of the case enough to get the bullet to sit and seat without shearing lead. I then use Lee factory crimp die to crimp (FC Die). A lot of folks don't like that die - says it swages lead bullets, but I've never had a problem. That FC die in the 9mm puts a taper crimp on and I just use a very moderate crimp.

I wouldn't think that 9mm brass with different HS should make a difference. If you can get something different from the Rem. you have, try that and see if you still get the same problem. Regardless of what the Rem. was shot in, the resizing of it should put it back in to spec again.

I'm thinking it's either in a die adjustment or your bullets are way undersize. Please let us know what you come up with and good luck - you'll get it figured out.

[Sevens]

I've got a lot of hands-on experience with a myriad of handgun-caliber handloading. It's my very firm opinion that R-P brass is some of the thinnest in the industry, bar none. In my experience, if a bullet is seated in to a piece of R-P head stamped pistol brass, it is more likely to have less case mouth tension than almost any other brand/stamp of brass.

However, with that said, it's also been my experience that the above is far, far more likely in a number of different chamberings... and less so in 9mm. I simply haven't seen much, if any, of this kind of trouble in 9mm.

And it is safe to say that 9mm itself is a wee bit different than most, simply because this is not a straight wall pistol round. In fact, it is slightly tapered. And when you use a proper carbide size die, you're putting a tapered case in to it. It's why our handloads in 9mm often look "WASP-WAISTED" where it looks like the brass has almost been sized down too far and you can see the bullet outline right through the brass.

It's a bit difficult to get a feel for HOW loose you're talking about. You say that you can "easily push it in" but later say that "it does take a lot of force"

We can all agree that we do not want unintended and/or unnoticed bullet setback in our handloads. As the bullet goes deeper, the space inside is reduced and pressures rise as a result. Given that these will be fired in a semi-auto, the rounds will be subjected to the violent, physical action of a self-loading handgun. We need to ensure that they DO NOT get forced deeper in to the brass.

Two of the most common ways I've seen it at my bench are with:
--too much case mouth flare
--too much "crimp"

Yes, the second item: too much "crimp"

The proper "crimp" is a taper crimp, it's not intended to capture, pinch, or otherwise hold that bullet in place. And if you try to keep adding MORE of it, to do something it was never intended to do, you'll simply corrupt the round.

I'd suggest to use the absolute least amount of case mouth flare, just enough to sit the bullet on a flared case and no more whatsoever.
And for the taper "crimp", I'd use just enough to remove the previous mouth flaring.

Test your die settings for taper crimp by crimping a flared case with no bullet. You shouldn't feel much in the press lever, and the finished case should no longer accept a fresh bullet.

If neither of those work (or perhaps before hand, just to make a fresh start...) I'd just skip right past the R-P headstamp brass and get something else. Win, Fed, CCI, all are fine. R-P stinks, only "A-MERC" is worse.

[riverratt]

The bullets i am useing are flat based copper clad with a messured dia. Of .357. On the first dummy round the bullet was easy to push in. I did not use a crimp at all per my hornady manual the second time i resized the brass and placed it in the press with the expander die loose. I turned it down untill it touched the case and put an 1/8 turn on it and locked it down. When i ran the case through i bairly had any resistance when i came back down. Messured the case behind the flaired part and again at the mouth with a differance of .003''. When i seated the bullet i adj. My die to add alittle crimp(same step) this time it was much more difficult to push the bullet in but by placing the round on the tbench almost all i had it set back a small amount. When i pulled the bullet out there waw a very lite ring around from the crimp. C.o.l was 1.156.

Hope this helps and thanks for the replies. Im at work now and all my data is at home so anything i say right now is from memory, not exactly reliable may be off a number somewares.

[Nick_C_S]

im looking for a cleaner powder than unique that i can load both .45acp and 9mm 124gr. Any suggestions?

Unique is a pretty good propellant for 124g/9mm. It should run pretty clean as long as you keep it up in the normal range of load parameters. Same with 45 ACP - especially with 230g bullets.

It's been my experience that most powders burn clean as long as you're using them in their "sweet spot" (a good bullet weight, propellant weight combination). Powders running sooty are your clue that something is out of balance, so to speak.

Be that as it may. AA5 is a particularly clean running powder that's in the same speed zone as Unique. I think it tends to run clean over a broader range than Unique.

[rg1]

Measure your expander plug. If it's a little smaller than the bullet diameter it's probably ok. As mentioned, some RP brass is thinner than other brands. Your sizing die may just not size the thin brass enough. IF and what to watch for is that when running brass into the expander die you feel no resistance and your expander is doing nothing then you may have a problem with bullet tension. Sizing dies do vary in the inside diameter of the carbide ring. Some are close to maximum of specs and may not size enough. That's why I prefer Winchester brass for 9MM and 40 SW. It's a little thicker than RP. Don't load if you are not getting good bullet tension and contact Lee with your problem or change brass brands.

[riverratt]

Thanks to all it was a brass problem went to a local gun store and found some win brass, problem solved. I have noticed how bad rem brass is in both my .45 and 30-06 but never had this problem before so i didnt think about that being an issue with loading.

Once again thanks for all the replies without your help i would be sending the die back and looking like a fool