Threat scenario -- real life.

David Scott · October 30, 2001, 02:42 PM

This is a real life situation.

Jane and Wanda (not their real names) worked together in a place of business that has frequent visitiors; in fact, anyone may walk in off the street unchallenged. Wanda recently quit the job, not long after Jane complained to the management about her unprofesional conduct and abusive language. It's common knowldge that she quit so she wouldn't have a firing on her record. On her last day there, Wanda made verbal threats of violence against Jane. Since then, Wanda has called Jane's home and alternated between promises of revenge and threats of suicide.

Jane called the cops. They took a report, advised Jane that she could get a restraining order, but Jane knows that they rarely stop anyone. Jane has since found out that Wanda has twice been picked up by the PD for domestic violence complaints, and has a reputation for being trouble at places she used to work.

Jane's employer absolutely forbids weapons on the premises, including weapons in locked cars in the parking lot. That makes Jane's CCW permit useless if she wants to keep her job. So far, in addition to the police report, Jane has acquired a can of pepper spray with marking dye and is being vigiliant when going to and from her car at work. Pepper spray is not a "weapon" under the employer's policy. She knows Wanda's car and is keeping an eye on the rear view mirror. When she's not going to and from work, Jane carries a pistol and she knows how to use it.

Jane does not want to spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder for this wack-nut Wanda. Nor does she want to move house or change jobs to make herself harder to find. What other measures do you suggest she take?

Ben Shepherd · October 30, 2001, 03:48 PM

Sounds like she may be mentally ill. There may be a way to have her taken in for an evaluation if she has a long history of acting this way.

Fred Hansen · October 30, 2001, 04:19 PM

You mentioned that the employer forbids weapons at work. How does the employer know if an employee is carrying? I guess I would take the chance of losing my job over my life, but that is just me. I subscribe to the old "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.".

Cheapo · October 30, 2001, 07:09 PM

True, any restraining/Stalking Order is only as "effective" as the honor/dishonor of the person to be restrained,

BUTBUTBUTBUT

It also *can* provide a valuable element in a paper trail documenting the good person's innocence and diligence, and the bad person's propensity to violence.

Plus, if your opponent is truly wacko, it can trigger the confrontation that leads to a decisive solution...or the suicide that ends the problem.

In either case, the outcome can be positive for the entire world.

Also activate the grievance procedure and apply for an exemption at work from the no weapons policy, based on known, specific threats to an identifiable person, from another identifiable person. If refused, then ask for an armed security guard at the front. Watch management squirm. When faced with the nonproductive staffing costs of full-time security, they just might grant the exemption. If they still resist, ask them to rent you a Kevlar vest.

IMMEDIATELY, get creative with the weapons policy and arrange for other nice "expedient" non-obvious weapons to be in easy reach at all times. Think distance! .

Spectre · October 30, 2001, 07:52 PM

Exactly. Good advice, cheapo.

If an employer's policy is "no weapons" instead of "following state weapons laws", it can be argued that the employer is assuming responsibility for your safety.

October 30, 2001, 02:42 PM	#1
David Scott Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2000 Posts: 2,456	Threat scenario -- real life. This is a real life situation. Jane and Wanda (not their real names) worked together in a place of business that has frequent visitiors; in fact, anyone may walk in off the street unchallenged. Wanda recently quit the job, not long after Jane complained to the management about her unprofesional conduct and abusive language. It's common knowldge that she quit so she wouldn't have a firing on her record. On her last day there, Wanda made verbal threats of violence against Jane. Since then, Wanda has called Jane's home and alternated between promises of revenge and threats of suicide. Jane called the cops. They took a report, advised Jane that she could get a restraining order, but Jane knows that they rarely stop anyone. Jane has since found out that Wanda has twice been picked up by the PD for domestic violence complaints, and has a reputation for being trouble at places she used to work. Jane's employer absolutely forbids weapons on the premises, including weapons in locked cars in the parking lot. That makes Jane's CCW permit useless if she wants to keep her job. So far, in addition to the police report, Jane has acquired a can of pepper spray with marking dye and is being vigiliant when going to and from her car at work. Pepper spray is not a "weapon" under the employer's policy. She knows Wanda's car and is keeping an eye on the rear view mirror. When she's not going to and from work, Jane carries a pistol and she knows how to use it. Jane does not want to spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder for this wack-nut Wanda. Nor does she want to move house or change jobs to make herself harder to find. What other measures do you suggest she take? __________________ "As I looked at my two young sons, each with his gun, and considered how much the safety of the party depended on these little fellows, I felt grateful to you, dear husband, for having acquainted them in childhood with the use of firearms." -- Elisabeth Robinson, in The Swiss Family Robinson by Johann Wyss

October 30, 2001, 03:48 PM	#2
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Sounds like she may be mentally ill. There may be a way to have her taken in for an evaluation if she has a long history of acting this way. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 30, 2001, 04:19 PM	#3
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,335	You mentioned that the employer forbids weapons at work. How does the employer know if an employee is carrying? I guess I would take the chance of losing my job over my life, but that is just me. I subscribe to the old "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.". __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore

October 30, 2001, 07:09 PM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	True, any restraining/Stalking Order is only as "effective" as the honor/dishonor of the person to be restrained, BUTBUTBUTBUT It also can provide a valuable element in a paper trail documenting the good person's innocence and diligence, and the bad person's propensity to violence. Plus, if your opponent is truly wacko, it can trigger the confrontation that leads to a decisive solution...or the suicide that ends the problem. In either case, the outcome can be positive for the entire world. Also activate the grievance procedure and apply for an exemption at work from the no weapons policy, based on known, specific threats to an identifiable person, from another identifiable person. If refused, then ask for an armed security guard at the front. Watch management squirm. When faced with the nonproductive staffing costs of full-time security, they just might grant the exemption. If they still resist, ask them to rent you a Kevlar vest. IMMEDIATELY, get creative with the weapons policy and arrange for other nice "expedient" non-obvious weapons to be in easy reach at all times. Think distance! . __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

October 30, 2001, 07:52 PM	#5
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Exactly. Good advice, cheapo. If an employer's policy is "no weapons" instead of "following state weapons laws", it can be argued that the employer is assuming responsibility for your safety. __________________ John Wandering Thoughts

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