dillon 650 process

tollys103079 · February 10, 2014, 10:23 PM

Ok so some things are starting to come up as I try to get ready for the new press.

If I deprime, prime, etc all in the same go at things how does that all work.

Do you clean your primer pockets? OR just keep going?

I guess that is my main question. I will be starting with .45acp on the dillon and I do not always clean my primer pockets for .45 practice rounds as it is, but I was just wondering.

I always clean for my .223 so not sure what to do when I get to that point.

How about the powder check gauge is it reliable?

If I get just the 650 xl is there anything I have to have to get going. I know about all the options, but at the moment I just want to get it up and running then I am sure I will order some of the extras.

Anything else I should know before I get rolling with the new 650? I have been reloading 2-3000 rounds a year on a single stage so I am excited to be able to shoot without thinking "ah damn there goes another hour in the basement".

Any help is great.

GJSchulze · February 11, 2014, 03:21 AM

The general consensus is to not clean the primer pockets on pistol brass. The are some people that do, but the only reason they give is that they just like to. You are getting a progressive press, so why slow the process down?

I had a lockout die, but gave it up and now I glance in every case. Mounting a LED strip in the press will help. Everything is easier once you get your process into muscle memory.

When you first start, when you have a stoppage, clear your shell plate before you fix things. It's just too easy to advance the plate and miss powder in a case.

There is no mistake you can make that is dangerous except for a squib. Everything else is an inconvenience.

Rico567 · February 11, 2014, 06:52 AM

Well, if you've ordered a new 650, I assume you've either already got the dies or ordered them with the press. If you do have dies, then you're ready to reload, as the hardware to mount the press is included.
You appear to be coming from single-stage reloading to progressive, so first and foremost, I would encourage you to read and digest the instruction manual, no matter how eager you are to get going. Or, if you insist on setting it up and reading the manual simultaneously, take your time. The 650 is a complex piece of equipment, but the rewards in ammo production are well worth the effort of mastering its operation.
When you think you're properly set up, cycle some cases through the machine, seeing that everything is running smoothly. When the 650 is running properly, it's a very smooth machine, nothing needs to be forced in order to work.
If you get stuck setting the press up, don't hesitate to call Dillon. It's not an inexpensive press, and among the things you're paying for are Dillon's stellar warranty and customer support.

What to do about case prep is, as "GJSchulze" states, largely a matter of personal preference. I reload .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .38/.357, .45LC, and .223 on the 650. Much of my pistol shooting is plinking, and if they're cases I've already shot, I don't bother to deprime and clean before reloading, I just tumble and go at it.
If the brass is new to me, it's almost always range pickup stuff, and then it gets deprimed first, then tumbled, which takes care of the primer pockets. I prefer to always deprime centerfire rifle brass and then clean....but I don't shoot all that much of it, perhaps if I shot a whole lot of .223 I might change my outlook.

I also endorse eyeballing the powder drop, even though I bought and tried out an RCBS Lock-Out Die myself*. I keep a battery-powered LED light clamped to the 650 and focused on the #3 station, so I can clearly see the level of the powder charge in the case as it goes by. Of course, I also periodically check a charge on my scale to ensure that the powder measure is working properly.

*Note: this is not to state that the Lock-Out Die doesn't work, it does. It's largely a matter of my belief that if I'm devoting 100% of my attention to reloading (which I do and should be doing), then such a die is redundant.

wogpotter · February 11, 2014, 08:21 AM

The process is this:
As you pull down on the handle the case is run up into the sizing die the decapping stem pops out the old primer & a linkage transfers a new primer from the tube into the seating stem in the base. As you finish the upward stroke the case is resized. When you bring the ram back down the base of the case is lowered onto the waiting primer in the cup. Further down pressure at the bottom of the stroke seats the primer.

If you want to clean pockets then I suggest you do what I do. de-prime off the press, do any prep work & only use the 650 to seat new primers.

Shootest · February 11, 2014, 02:16 PM

If I want/need to clean or swage primer pockets or trim cases, I will set my XL650 up with only the size/deprime or Lee universal deprime die in it (station 1). That will leave me with cases ready for any necessary processing.

osirus82 · February 12, 2014, 06:12 PM

I picked up the harvey hand deprimer to use instead of a die- i did 500 .308 shells in a couple hours no problems.

WESHOOT2 · February 13, 2014, 02:41 PM

Bolt that thing directly to the earth's core (I mount my presses on big wide heavy lumber, and bolt THAT to my benches).

If I deprime, prime, etc all in the same go at things how does that all work.

Do you clean your primer pockets? OR just keep going?
Just keep going.

I guess that is my main question. I will be starting with .45acp on the dillon and I do not always clean my primer pockets for .45 practice rounds as it is, but I was just wondering.

I always clean for my .223 so not sure what to do when I get to that point.

How about the powder check gauge is it reliable?
It is reliable when adjusted properly (had fifteen or so; think I'm down to 8 or 9).

If I get just the 650 xl is there anything I have to have to get going. I know about all the options, but at the moment I just want to get it up and running then I am sure I will order some of the extras.
GET THE ROLLER HANDLE!!!

Anything else I should know before I get rolling with the new 650?
ALWAYS wear eye protection when activating your press; no exceptions (because springs break, parts explode, danger lurks; not joking).
NEVER force anything; stop, investigate, perform required remedial action, resume.
Call Dillon with any questions.
Use 30wt non-detergent oil on the ram and links, use Tetragun Grease on the ball under the shellplate, on that little wedged 'arm' that sticks out under the shellplate, where the two ramps meet.
When starting with a new load use it like a single stage; set one case for sizing/depriming, single-seat a single primer, etc.
After you get a load running stop around the twentieth and re-measure everything on the cartridge.
Have extra blue bins for catching loaded cartridges

1stmar · February 14, 2014, 01:09 AM

You going to need:
A scale
A primer flip tray
Obviously all the components (primers, brass, powder, bullets)
Reloading manual
I suggest a kenetic puller
Wrenches to adjust the dies
Hex wrenches to adjust the shell plate and other components on the press
Something to put all that loaded ammo in
And something to wipe off the grin...

tollys103079 · February 14, 2014, 12:25 PM

Ok so I have all the stuff and got everything set up. For the first time last night I started cranking out a few shells and like you all said it was great. I was smiling the whole time.

The problem I am having is with the powder drop.

I am loading 5 grains of Bullseye and it will not meter consitantly.

I am wondering if it has to do with the belled out cases I am using. I have about 250 brass already primed and belled I was trying to go through first before I start on new brass.

I kept checking it I would drop a few charges / adjust / drop 5 or 6 more and then when I got it where I wanted it never stayed consistant.

My thoughts are?

Belled Cases
Shell Plate not being full
Am I missing something else?

I have not sanded down the funnel yet should I? Or polish it or something?

Things I love

Man is it accurate when seating a bullet. Set it and forget it. On my old lee single stage it would often be a little different but it is always the same with this one.

The speed and ease is awesome. I cannot wait to get it up and running smoothly. Just have to get the powder figured out.

Steven

1stmar · February 14, 2014, 01:39 PM

How much variation you getting ?

tollys103079 · February 14, 2014, 01:59 PM

Too much. It ranges from 4.8 to 5.8 and then I saw a 7 grain. Then on rare occasions it would completely throw a grain or less.

I am going to run some tomorrow and work on just getting it consistent at whater weight it is at. I spent a lot of time trying to get it down to 5 grains it seems like it would work much better at 6.

So I am going to go home tonight measure what it is throwing and throw 15 in a row to see if they are the same no matter what they weigh then adjust.

also going to try non belled cases and see if that helps.

WESHOOT2 · February 14, 2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

try non belled cases

Do this first.

Call Dillon (long) before banging head against wall

snuffy · February 14, 2014, 09:03 PM

The 650 is a progressive machine. It's not meant to be run to load one shell-at-a-time. Doing so will result in exactly what's happening to you, inconsistent powder charges. Also, bullseye is notoriously hard to meter., especially in small amounts.

Next, you are using a brand new machine for the first time. You should run a bunch of powder through the powder charge system to "coat" the parts with the graphite that's on the powder. Take the measure right off the machine, cycle about a pound of powder through it. That will coat the parts, making it drop more evenly.

Next, only check powder drops with the machine running full and a couple of shells AFTER making an adjustment. It all has to do with machine vibration. If you don't have it bolted down real tight, the vibrations will make accurate powder drops very hard to do.

That bench is real solid, it's attached to the framework of the house. The press is bolted directly to the bench, so it doesn't wiggle.

Chaz88 · February 14, 2014, 10:00 PM

When you are doing your powder adjustment make sure you run the full stroke to include primer seating, even if you are not seating a primer. I noticed it made a difference in consistency. After every adjustment I dump one or two cases without checking on the scale then check one on the scale. I have never noticed a difference with or without belled cases. Once you get close to the grains you want take your time and make very small adjustments. I use a lot of BE and have never had the swings you are seeing. One last thing, make sure you are using the small powder bar and the top block is installed correctly. Good luck!

tollys103079 · February 15, 2014, 12:07 PM

Got it. Thank you to those who helped. As it turns out I think it was a combination of the press being new to me. So I did what I know how to do. I took it apart. Cleaned it all again, used the dryer sheets to get rid of the static and looked at how the powder bar worked. Then ran a jug of powder through it. I also added another leg to my reloading bench, the back is lagged into the wall, but the front on sits on the floor so I added brace in the middle and got out the .22 caliber nail gun(seemed fitting) and attached it to the floor.

Now it is throwing 5 grains time and time again with very little variation.

Thanks for the help. Going to load some rounds today.

WESHOOT2 · February 15, 2014, 01:03 PM

Glad you found and fixed the problem.

February 10, 2014, 10:23 PM	#1
tollys103079 Member Join Date: December 7, 2012 Posts: 36	dillon 650 process Ok so some things are starting to come up as I try to get ready for the new press. If I deprime, prime, etc all in the same go at things how does that all work. Do you clean your primer pockets? OR just keep going? I guess that is my main question. I will be starting with .45acp on the dillon and I do not always clean my primer pockets for .45 practice rounds as it is, but I was just wondering. I always clean for my .223 so not sure what to do when I get to that point. How about the powder check gauge is it reliable? If I get just the 650 xl is there anything I have to have to get going. I know about all the options, but at the moment I just want to get it up and running then I am sure I will order some of the extras. Anything else I should know before I get rolling with the new 650? I have been reloading 2-3000 rounds a year on a single stage so I am excited to be able to shoot without thinking "ah damn there goes another hour in the basement". Any help is great.

February 11, 2014, 08:21 AM	#4
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	The process is this: As you pull down on the handle the case is run up into the sizing die the decapping stem pops out the old primer & a linkage transfers a new primer from the tube into the seating stem in the base. As you finish the upward stroke the case is resized. When you bring the ram back down the base of the case is lowered onto the waiting primer in the cup. Further down pressure at the bottom of the stroke seats the primer. If you want to clean pockets then I suggest you do what I do. de-prime off the press, do any prep work & only use the 650 to seat new primers. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 11, 2014, 02:16 PM	#5
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	If I want/need to clean or swage primer pockets or trim cases, I will set my XL650 up with only the size/deprime or Lee universal deprime die in it (station 1). That will leave me with cases ready for any necessary processing. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

February 13, 2014, 02:41 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	makin' ammo Dillon style Bolt that thing directly to the earth's core (I mount my presses on big wide heavy lumber, and bolt THAT to my benches). If I deprime, prime, etc all in the same go at things how does that all work. Do you clean your primer pockets? OR just keep going? Just keep going. I guess that is my main question. I will be starting with .45acp on the dillon and I do not always clean my primer pockets for .45 practice rounds as it is, but I was just wondering. I always clean for my .223 so not sure what to do when I get to that point. How about the powder check gauge is it reliable? It is reliable when adjusted properly (had fifteen or so; think I'm down to 8 or 9). If I get just the 650 xl is there anything I have to have to get going. I know about all the options, but at the moment I just want to get it up and running then I am sure I will order some of the extras. GET THE ROLLER HANDLE!!! Anything else I should know before I get rolling with the new 650? ALWAYS wear eye protection when activating your press; no exceptions (because springs break, parts explode, danger lurks; not joking). NEVER force anything; stop, investigate, perform required remedial action, resume. Call Dillon with any questions. Use 30wt non-detergent oil on the ram and links, use Tetragun Grease on the ball under the shellplate, on that little wedged 'arm' that sticks out under the shellplate, where the two ramps meet. When starting with a new load use it like a single stage; set one case for sizing/depriming, single-seat a single primer, etc. After you get a load running stop around the twentieth and re-measure everything on the cartridge. Have extra blue bins for catching loaded cartridges __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 14, 2014, 09:03 PM	#13
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	The 650 is a progressive machine. It's not meant to be run to load one shell-at-a-time. Doing so will result in exactly what's happening to you, inconsistent powder charges. Also, bullseye is notoriously hard to meter., especially in small amounts. Next, you are using a brand new machine for the first time. You should run a bunch of powder through the powder charge system to "coat" the parts with the graphite that's on the powder. Take the measure right off the machine, cycle about a pound of powder through it. That will coat the parts, making it drop more evenly. Next, only check powder drops with the machine running full and a couple of shells AFTER making an adjustment. It all has to do with machine vibration. If you don't have it bolted down real tight, the vibrations will make accurate powder drops very hard to do. That bench is real solid, it's attached to the framework of the house. The press is bolted directly to the bench, so it doesn't wiggle. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

February 11, 2014, 03:21 AM	#2
GJSchulze Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2013 Location: Western New York Posts: 454	The general consensus is to not clean the primer pockets on pistol brass. The are some people that do, but the only reason they give is that they just like to. You are getting a progressive press, so why slow the process down? I had a lockout die, but gave it up and now I glance in every case. Mounting a LED strip in the press will help. Everything is easier once you get your process into muscle memory. When you first start, when you have a stoppage, clear your shell plate before you fix things. It's just too easy to advance the plate and miss powder in a case. There is no mistake you can make that is dangerous except for a squib. Everything else is an inconvenience.

February 11, 2014, 06:52 AM	#3
Rico567 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Posts: 162	Well, if you've ordered a new 650, I assume you've either already got the dies or ordered them with the press. If you do have dies, then you're ready to reload, as the hardware to mount the press is included. You appear to be coming from single-stage reloading to progressive, so first and foremost, I would encourage you to read and digest the instruction manual, no matter how eager you are to get going. Or, if you insist on setting it up and reading the manual simultaneously, take your time. The 650 is a complex piece of equipment, but the rewards in ammo production are well worth the effort of mastering its operation. When you think you're properly set up, cycle some cases through the machine, seeing that everything is running smoothly. When the 650 is running properly, it's a very smooth machine, nothing needs to be forced in order to work. If you get stuck setting the press up, don't hesitate to call Dillon. It's not an inexpensive press, and among the things you're paying for are Dillon's stellar warranty and customer support. What to do about case prep is, as "GJSchulze" states, largely a matter of personal preference. I reload .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .38/.357, .45LC, and .223 on the 650. Much of my pistol shooting is plinking, and if they're cases I've already shot, I don't bother to deprime and clean before reloading, I just tumble and go at it. If the brass is new to me, it's almost always range pickup stuff, and then it gets deprimed first, then tumbled, which takes care of the primer pockets. I prefer to always deprime centerfire rifle brass and then clean....but I don't shoot all that much of it, perhaps if I shot a whole lot of .223 I might change my outlook. I also endorse eyeballing the powder drop, even though I bought and tried out an RCBS Lock-Out Die myself. I keep a battery-powered LED light clamped to the 650 and focused on the #3 station, so I can clearly see the level of the powder charge in the case as it goes by. Of course, I also periodically check a charge on my scale to ensure that the powder measure is working properly. Note: this is not to state that the Lock-Out Die doesn't work, it does. It's largely a matter of my belief that if I'm devoting 100% of my attention to reloading (which I do and should be doing), then such a die is redundant. __________________ "Dear reader, suppose you are a member of Congress. Now, further suppose you are an idiot. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

February 12, 2014, 06:12 PM	#6
osirus82 Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 102	I picked up the harvey hand deprimer to use instead of a die- i did 500 .308 shells in a couple hours no problems.

February 14, 2014, 01:09 AM	#8
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	You going to need: A scale A primer flip tray Obviously all the components (primers, brass, powder, bullets) Reloading manual I suggest a kenetic puller Wrenches to adjust the dies Hex wrenches to adjust the shell plate and other components on the press Something to put all that loaded ammo in And something to wipe off the grin...

February 14, 2014, 12:25 PM	#9
tollys103079 Member Join Date: December 7, 2012 Posts: 36	Ok so I have all the stuff and got everything set up. For the first time last night I started cranking out a few shells and like you all said it was great. I was smiling the whole time. The problem I am having is with the powder drop. I am loading 5 grains of Bullseye and it will not meter consitantly. I am wondering if it has to do with the belled out cases I am using. I have about 250 brass already primed and belled I was trying to go through first before I start on new brass. I kept checking it I would drop a few charges / adjust / drop 5 or 6 more and then when I got it where I wanted it never stayed consistant. My thoughts are? Belled Cases Shell Plate not being full Am I missing something else? I have not sanded down the funnel yet should I? Or polish it or something? Things I love Man is it accurate when seating a bullet. Set it and forget it. On my old lee single stage it would often be a little different but it is always the same with this one. The speed and ease is awesome. I cannot wait to get it up and running smoothly. Just have to get the powder figured out. Steven

February 14, 2014, 01:39 PM	#10
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	How much variation you getting ?

February 14, 2014, 01:59 PM	#11
tollys103079 Member Join Date: December 7, 2012 Posts: 36	Too much. It ranges from 4.8 to 5.8 and then I saw a 7 grain. Then on rare occasions it would completely throw a grain or less. I am going to run some tomorrow and work on just getting it consistent at whater weight it is at. I spent a lot of time trying to get it down to 5 grains it seems like it would work much better at 6. So I am going to go home tonight measure what it is throwing and throw 15 in a row to see if they are the same no matter what they weigh then adjust. also going to try non belled cases and see if that helps.

February 14, 2014, 10:00 PM	#14
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	When you are doing your powder adjustment make sure you run the full stroke to include primer seating, even if you are not seating a primer. I noticed it made a difference in consistency. After every adjustment I dump one or two cases without checking on the scale then check one on the scale. I have never noticed a difference with or without belled cases. Once you get close to the grains you want take your time and make very small adjustments. I use a lot of BE and have never had the swings you are seeing. One last thing, make sure you are using the small powder bar and the top block is installed correctly. Good luck! __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

February 15, 2014, 12:07 PM	#15
tollys103079 Member Join Date: December 7, 2012 Posts: 36	Got it. Thank you to those who helped. As it turns out I think it was a combination of the press being new to me. So I did what I know how to do. I took it apart. Cleaned it all again, used the dryer sheets to get rid of the static and looked at how the powder bar worked. Then ran a jug of powder through it. I also added another leg to my reloading bench, the back is lagged into the wall, but the front on sits on the floor so I added brace in the middle and got out the .22 caliber nail gun(seemed fitting) and attached it to the floor. Now it is throwing 5 grains time and time again with very little variation. Thanks for the help. Going to load some rounds today.

February 15, 2014, 01:03 PM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Glad you found and fixed the problem. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"