Mich. Cap and ball

Pezo · March 1, 2014, 06:57 PM

Having a hard time figuring this out. Is a cap and ball revolver required to be "registered" as a hand gun in mich? Or not? Can they be shipped direct in mich? Any needed involvement of an ffl. I know not federal but the state of mich. Thank you. P.s that steel frame uberti 1861 navy is calling my name!

bedbugbilly · March 1, 2014, 07:31 PM

I'm from Michigan and "no" - a cap and ball revolver/single shot pistol does not require registration. It is considered an "antique".

As far as shipping, no FFL should be required.

However, last year, I was interested in purchasing a percussion rifle (new) from a dealer out of state (not in Michigan). They refused to ship as they claimed they did not know whether Michigan had any requirements regarding that. There are no restrictions unless it be a "local" one and I am not aware of any municipality in Michigan that has restrictions. I pointed this out to them but they were waffling all over the place on it - so I told them to take a hike and I'd buy it from another dealer - which I did and they had no problem shipping it. The only thing that I know of that might stop shipment of a C & B to you (in MI) is if you run in to a supplier as I did on the rifle I wanted to purchase.

A year ago last December (I believe) Michigan did away with the requirement where you had to go to your local LE to get a "purchase permit" prior to going to an FFL to purchase a handgun. Now, that form is handled by the dealer, a background check is called in and verified (unless you have a CPL - concealed pistol license). After the purchase is completed and the fFL paperwork done, the buyer is given copies of a form and you keep one for your records and the other copies are mailed in to the local LE who used to issue the purchase pemits. There is a time period in which this has to be completed and the forms eventually end up at the MSP.

I don't know how it is now that the purchase permit process was changed, but, even though you were not required to register a C & R in Michigan, you COULD at one time if you wanted to. It was an easy thing to do - especially if it had a serial number and then it would be on file if it was ever stolen - they could check the registration and hopefully they could get it back to you.

I had a number of C & R revolvers (saturday night specials) at one time that were of the age they didn't need to be registered (and they never had been). I was going to sell them and I took them in to the Sheriff's Dept. and registered them anyway - then consigned them to a FFL dealer to sell on GB. They were signed over to him as a normal modern handgun would be so that I had a paper trail to him. From there on, I believe he then sold them as C & R or however he handled it.

As an added note - I am in AZ during the winter. If I purchase a handgun here (modern) all I have to do here is the normal FFL paperwork. (A person, if not a resident in AZ, must have a state ID. I have both a state ID and CCW License for AZ). I can legally transport it back to MI. In MI, I can then take it in (or the information on it - make, model, serial #, barrel length, # of shots, etc.) and I was told it would be registered in MI as a "transfer from another state". In the past, I also had several handguns that were never registered that were from estates. Those were taken in and registered as "estate handguns". If a person were to NOT register those guns and they were stopped by LE, they could be charged with "possession of an unregistered handgun".

There has always been a lot of "conflab" on Michigan's registration requirement but it never has really bothered me. If the gun was stolen (and it has to be reported as stolen by state law), if ever recovered, it is a way to get it back to the rightful owner. I'm not saying that it would always happen but I know of some that were recovered and returned - others were probably out of state and in a flea market in the south within 24 hours.

bedbugbilly · March 1, 2014, 07:34 PM

PEZO - I will also add . . . if in any doubt, all you have to do is call the State Police and they will be happy to make a clarification on this or any other handgun, rifle, shotgun questions that you may have. Or, if you have a SP Post near you , just stop in and ask - they'll be happy to answer your questions.

Bezoar · March 3, 2014, 08:45 AM

call the michigan state police, lansing, firearms division. They will set you right.

all you do is call up cabales, tell them to mail or fax you their percusion gun purchase form, print it out, get it notarized at the bank. Send it in to them. and Call them up with your muzzleloading handgun order.

no need to get a purchase permit for muzzle loaders. However you still need to register all handguns, regardless of how its loaded. Its a dangerous weapon. Not registering it is still a 50-100 dollar ticket. civil infraction.

Its no big hassle.

buckhorn · March 26, 2014, 01:28 PM

I've lived in Michigan the last 25 years and have bought almost all my BP revolvers here. {I have about 8 now.] When I lived in Taylor MI. down by Detroit, I had to take my revolver into the Taylor police dept. to have it registered. But, that was a local ordinance, not state wide. Since I've moved north, I've ordered several BP revolvers with NO problems or registration issues what-so-ever. I've even bought and installed conversion cylinders with no requirement for 'purchase permit' or subsequent registration. Wayne Co. has different laws than rest of state. {probably because it encompasses Detroit.] If you're not in Wayne Co., you're good to go!

BirchOrr · March 27, 2014, 09:39 AM

A BP pistol DOES NOT require "registration" in Michigan. At one time, "registration" of a BP pistol was required BUT ONLY if carried while hunting. This law has been changed and done away with.

We all know carrying a loaded handgun in public is a tremendous responsibility. We all are expected to know the law. An excellent source is MCRGO http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/ They have a FAQ section that is very informative.

If you don't have a CPL, you must carry any handgun "open carry" even while hunting. It also must be unloaded during transport in a vehicle. Under the law, any BP firearm is unloaded if it has the cap(s) removed. I have a CPL and enjoy driving to and from my hunting spot with my BP pistol in a shoulder holster. I like the fact that it's warm and dry, protected from the elements, under my coat.

All the best,

Birch

buckhorn · March 27, 2014, 01:24 PM

They passed a new law here in Mi. a couple years ago that requires NO registration or restrictions on ordering or buying BP revolvers, even online. This new law addressed the conversion cylinder market {I.E. R+D, ect.} by saying if your conversion allows RELOADING WITHOUT CYLINDER DISMOUNT, you have to register it as a regular handgun. If you have a BP revolver and wish to use a conversion cylinder using a loading gate, you have to get a purchase permit and register it. I assume they won't ship a loading-gate conversion cylinder to Mi. , but I've bought several dismount-types with no problem. However, local ordinances take precedent over state law.

mykeal · April 5, 2014, 09:31 PM

Buckhorn,

You wouldn't happen to know the reference on that new law about conversion cylinders, would you? I don't seem to be able to find it.

March 1, 2014, 06:57 PM	#1
Pezo Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Vernors and orange barrels. Posts: 661	Mich. Cap and ball Having a hard time figuring this out. Is a cap and ball revolver required to be "registered" as a hand gun in mich? Or not? Can they be shipped direct in mich? Any needed involvement of an ffl. I know not federal but the state of mich. Thank you. P.s that steel frame uberti 1861 navy is calling my name!

March 1, 2014, 07:31 PM	#2
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I'm from Michigan and "no" - a cap and ball revolver/single shot pistol does not require registration. It is considered an "antique". As far as shipping, no FFL should be required. However, last year, I was interested in purchasing a percussion rifle (new) from a dealer out of state (not in Michigan). They refused to ship as they claimed they did not know whether Michigan had any requirements regarding that. There are no restrictions unless it be a "local" one and I am not aware of any municipality in Michigan that has restrictions. I pointed this out to them but they were waffling all over the place on it - so I told them to take a hike and I'd buy it from another dealer - which I did and they had no problem shipping it. The only thing that I know of that might stop shipment of a C & B to you (in MI) is if you run in to a supplier as I did on the rifle I wanted to purchase. A year ago last December (I believe) Michigan did away with the requirement where you had to go to your local LE to get a "purchase permit" prior to going to an FFL to purchase a handgun. Now, that form is handled by the dealer, a background check is called in and verified (unless you have a CPL - concealed pistol license). After the purchase is completed and the fFL paperwork done, the buyer is given copies of a form and you keep one for your records and the other copies are mailed in to the local LE who used to issue the purchase pemits. There is a time period in which this has to be completed and the forms eventually end up at the MSP. I don't know how it is now that the purchase permit process was changed, but, even though you were not required to register a C & R in Michigan, you COULD at one time if you wanted to. It was an easy thing to do - especially if it had a serial number and then it would be on file if it was ever stolen - they could check the registration and hopefully they could get it back to you. I had a number of C & R revolvers (saturday night specials) at one time that were of the age they didn't need to be registered (and they never had been). I was going to sell them and I took them in to the Sheriff's Dept. and registered them anyway - then consigned them to a FFL dealer to sell on GB. They were signed over to him as a normal modern handgun would be so that I had a paper trail to him. From there on, I believe he then sold them as C & R or however he handled it. As an added note - I am in AZ during the winter. If I purchase a handgun here (modern) all I have to do here is the normal FFL paperwork. (A person, if not a resident in AZ, must have a state ID. I have both a state ID and CCW License for AZ). I can legally transport it back to MI. In MI, I can then take it in (or the information on it - make, model, serial #, barrel length, # of shots, etc.) and I was told it would be registered in MI as a "transfer from another state". In the past, I also had several handguns that were never registered that were from estates. Those were taken in and registered as "estate handguns". If a person were to NOT register those guns and they were stopped by LE, they could be charged with "possession of an unregistered handgun". There has always been a lot of "conflab" on Michigan's registration requirement but it never has really bothered me. If the gun was stolen (and it has to be reported as stolen by state law), if ever recovered, it is a way to get it back to the rightful owner. I'm not saying that it would always happen but I know of some that were recovered and returned - others were probably out of state and in a flea market in the south within 24 hours. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 1, 2014, 07:34 PM	#3
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	PEZO - I will also add . . . if in any doubt, all you have to do is call the State Police and they will be happy to make a clarification on this or any other handgun, rifle, shotgun questions that you may have. Or, if you have a SP Post near you , just stop in and ask - they'll be happy to answer your questions. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

March 27, 2014, 09:39 AM	#6
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	Bezoar A BP pistol DOES NOT require "registration" in Michigan. At one time, "registration" of a BP pistol was required BUT ONLY if carried while hunting. This law has been changed and done away with. We all know carrying a loaded handgun in public is a tremendous responsibility. We all are expected to know the law. An excellent source is MCRGO http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/ They have a FAQ section that is very informative. If you don't have a CPL, you must carry any handgun "open carry" even while hunting. It also must be unloaded during transport in a vehicle. Under the law, any BP firearm is unloaded if it has the cap(s) removed. I have a CPL and enjoy driving to and from my hunting spot with my BP pistol in a shoulder holster. I like the fact that it's warm and dry, protected from the elements, under my coat. All the best, Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

March 3, 2014, 08:45 AM	#4
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	call the michigan state police, lansing, firearms division. They will set you right. all you do is call up cabales, tell them to mail or fax you their percusion gun purchase form, print it out, get it notarized at the bank. Send it in to them. and Call them up with your muzzleloading handgun order. no need to get a purchase permit for muzzle loaders. However you still need to register all handguns, regardless of how its loaded. Its a dangerous weapon. Not registering it is still a 50-100 dollar ticket. civil infraction. Its no big hassle.

March 26, 2014, 01:28 PM	#5
buckhorn Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2012 Location: mid michigan Posts: 196	I've lived in Michigan the last 25 years and have bought almost all my BP revolvers here. {I have about 8 now.] When I lived in Taylor MI. down by Detroit, I had to take my revolver into the Taylor police dept. to have it registered. But, that was a local ordinance, not state wide. Since I've moved north, I've ordered several BP revolvers with NO problems or registration issues what-so-ever. I've even bought and installed conversion cylinders with no requirement for 'purchase permit' or subsequent registration. Wayne Co. has different laws than rest of state. {probably because it encompasses Detroit.] If you're not in Wayne Co., you're good to go!

March 27, 2014, 01:24 PM	#7
buckhorn Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2012 Location: mid michigan Posts: 196	They passed a new law here in Mi. a couple years ago that requires NO registration or restrictions on ordering or buying BP revolvers, even online. This new law addressed the conversion cylinder market {I.E. R+D, ect.} by saying if your conversion allows RELOADING WITHOUT CYLINDER DISMOUNT, you have to register it as a regular handgun. If you have a BP revolver and wish to use a conversion cylinder using a loading gate, you have to get a purchase permit and register it. I assume they won't ship a loading-gate conversion cylinder to Mi. , but I've bought several dismount-types with no problem. However, local ordinances take precedent over state law.

April 5, 2014, 09:31 PM	#8
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Buckhorn, You wouldn't happen to know the reference on that new law about conversion cylinders, would you? I don't seem to be able to find it.