Choose gun before or after CHL class?

Ideal Tool · October 13, 2010, 06:23 PM

Hello, I have been thinking of taking class & obtaining cpl. Question: do you need a conceable carry gun BEFORE taking classs? All my guns have at least 6" brl. & right now is not good time to buy. Can you go through class with a mod. 19 6"? Only short one is 3" Colt 1877 Lightning! Thanks guys!

Archer-1911 · October 13, 2010, 07:48 PM

It depends mainly on the instructor. Some have one you can shoot, others let you bring whatever of yours, others still don't even take you to the range and you qualify with a laser gun (don't ask me that's how a good friend of the families got his). You'd be best off asking the instructor whom is going to be teaching you, or the company you're going through.

Capt. Charlie · October 13, 2010, 08:25 PM

Mod. note: Title changed to reflect the thread's subject.

MLeake · October 13, 2010, 09:46 PM

... don't register firearms, and don't specify a particular firearm on a carry permit. So, unless the instructor had a requirement to use a pistol intended for carry (my instructor in Florida had no such requirement), any handgun would do.

Not sure how that would work in a state that specifies a particular pistol on the permit, but would guess that pistol would have to be used for qual.

As Archer-1911 said, best bet is to ask the instructor you plan to use.

aarondhgraham · October 14, 2010, 08:04 AM

In my state (Oklahoma) if you take the class with a revolver then your license will restrict you to carrying a revolver or a derringer.

If you take the class with a semi-auto pistol you will be licensed to carry any style handgun.

I would ask if they have any rental pistols available for the class,,,
That's what I did as at the time I did not own a semi-auto.

Just something to check,,,

.

Skans · October 14, 2010, 08:26 AM

Most concealed handgun classes, or concealed weapons classes, etc. are a joke. They are geared to getting large numbers of people to simply get their permits. It's like thinking that after taking your basic driving test to get a license that it prepared you to drive a car in all sorts of conditions.

So, IMHO, the concealed carry class is a big "0" in someone's determination of what kind of gun is best for daily carry for them. In other words its simply a non-factor. The only way you will know which handgun is best for you to carry is to do your research, ask others who carry lots of questions, familiarize yourself with what you think you might want to carry, figure out what caliber you are comfortable with, try out different modes of carrying in a gunshop if you can.

Then, you will simply have to pick a gun, buy it and carry it for a while. If it works out for you - great. If it doesn't, sell/trade it for something that works better for you. Most of us, no matter how experienced and how much we carry, swap out guns/holsters from time to time. Nothing's perfect!

Then, you will really need learn how to use your gun in various situations. This requires real training and real instruction and lots of practice. One-on-one kind of training. You need to learn how to draw your weapon; when to fire; how to deal with multiple attackers; how to draw from various positions; how to clear jams or deal with problems; determine your "range" with your chosen weapon and lots of other things that I am forgetting to mention. You need to learn when not to try to use your gun. For instance, if someone sneaks up on you and has a gun pointed at your chest - are you going to try to draw your weapon and shoot??? Better think again.

So, my suggestion is do your research, try stuff out, do more research, try more stuff out, ask lots of practical questions, buy a gun and holster, get some real training with what you've got. Carry it daily. Only then will you know if it works for you.

kraigwy · October 14, 2010, 08:35 AM

In an "ideal world" a insturctor would provide several types of guns to allow the student the ability to see what fits him and his requirements.

The student should be give the opertunity to shoot then enough to make a informed decission, then qualify with the one that fits his needs.

Of course in an "ideal world" we would only have guns for sports and pleasure.

In the real world, the student should, on his own, try as many pistols and revolvers as possible to make the decission on their own before the class.

We tend to put too much on the instructor or coach without putting in the effert on our own.

MLeake · October 14, 2010, 08:35 AM

... but they are required in some states, in order to get the permit.

And in at least one or two states, the specific firearm(s) to be carried must be listed on the permit.

No idea if Michigan falls under either category, but odds are we have some Michigan members who can help the OP out.

Archer-1911 · October 14, 2010, 10:31 AM

PFFT I didn't even noticed OP lived in MI sorry about that dude. The course is manditory in MI and you need to be on the range with an instructor for around an hour. As far as I know you can take the CPL course with just about anything, again that's going to be largely based on the instructors personal convictions. The instructor might frown upon bringing a .460 or .500 S&W but the gun you take the class with does not have to be your final carry piece, I know that for certain. I took my full sized Kimber Custom II, only weapon I had at the time, and qualified no problem. Since then I've carried a couple of different guns. Like I said earlier it's best just to ask the instructor or the facility you plan on taking the course with.

thesheepdog · October 14, 2010, 11:40 AM

Rent a handgun, then buy one afterwards.

bikerbill · October 15, 2010, 08:11 AM

In Texas, taking the class with a revolver limits you to carrying a revolver, so if that's a concern, you'd have to take an autoloader. The state also specifies the smallest caliber you can test with .. I think it's .38 Spcl. However, you DON'T have to test with the gun you plan to carry, so you could in fact take the test with a borrowed gun and decide later what you want to use as a carry piece. I'm guessing it's different in other states, so know your state's laws before you sign up for the class. I tested -- and renewed -- with my Springer XD 9mm, but I never carry that gun, for a variety of reasons ...

old bear · October 15, 2010, 03:58 PM

Apparently you don’t own a handgun as of yet, so I would borrow or rent both a revolver and an automatic. That way you can see which style works best for you. Personally I prefer a revolver and recommend a revolver for the first time shooter.

Enjoy the class and be safe.

Stiofan · October 15, 2010, 04:10 PM

Actually he says he does own handguns, but only ones with long barrels such as his SW 6" mod 19.

Ideal Tool · October 15, 2010, 04:24 PM

Hi guys! Thanks for all the input..I have another question..how many rounds are usually required to qualify in these classes? The reason I ask is that I do have a short brl. revolver..didn't mention it before because it's kind of old..a S&W hand-ejector .32 with 4" brl. complete with very slight bulge in brl! If I didn't have to shoot alot, this old timer might fit the bill, other then that, could you bring a .22?...S&W 6" mod. 17? One of these days, I would love to have a 21/2 or 3" Python as carry. Thanks guys!

thesheepdog · October 15, 2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Hi guys! Thanks for all the input..I have another question..how many rounds are usually required to qualify in these classes?

50 in Texas.

WW2 · October 15, 2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

a S&W hand-ejector .32 with 4" brl. complete with very slight bulge in brl!

A bulge in the barrel? I would either get it fixed or trash it. That bulge could result in a very bad accident when shooting!

Of course, I am no gunsmith, so my recommendation is to have it checked out by a good smith!

Buzzcook · October 15, 2010, 06:08 PM

I guess it depends on the class you take and the instructor. Personally I'd wait till you can get a better idea of what you're going to want in a carry gun.

Ask your instructor, he and your state laws are the authorities that matter.

X_shooter · October 15, 2010, 06:48 PM

I took mine in Michigan and my class required 150 rounds. I shot close to 200 including making more holes for the instructor as well as some steel targets they let us shoot at the end of the class. YMMV.

Sherlock · October 15, 2010, 07:54 PM

Can you visit some ranges and try out some more compact guns? It's great if you can get a feel for the gun you are looking to carry. Take into consideration how you are going to carry it, as previously mentioned, for instance are you able to to wear shirts or polos untucked, do you have to were dress attire? Do you prefer revolvers or semi autos? Are you thinking of carrying in pocket holster, inside the waist band or on a OWB holster?

In Ohio it does not matter what we qualify with. I could have shot a S&W revolver and carry a M&P. I don't know how it is in Michigan.

I hope you enjoy the class and good luck with choosing a carry piece.

Dave85 · October 15, 2010, 07:59 PM

Different classes have different requirements, based on their own designs. The State of Michigan only requires an expenditure of 30 rounds during a training program. Also, there is no state requirement that you bring your own gun. My guess is, you should be able to find a course at a gun shop where they would be happy to help you shoot what you think you might like to buy from them.

Once you have your CPL (it is a Concealed Pistol License in Michigan), you may carry any legal handgun—revolver, auto, or derringer—that you can keep concealed.

Here is a link to the statute that outlines the requirements for training.

IZZY · October 17, 2010, 07:15 PM

dont buy a gun for a course, buy a gun for CARRY.

That means YOU should have it on you always outside the home, often inside as well.

Choose the biggest and most reliable gun you can comfortably conceil and carry that will do the job.

For me it's a glock 30.

for you....

October 13, 2010, 06:23 PM	#1
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Choose gun before or after CHL class? Hello, I have been thinking of taking class & obtaining cpl. Question: do you need a conceable carry gun BEFORE taking classs? All my guns have at least 6" brl. & right now is not good time to buy. Can you go through class with a mod. 19 6"? Only short one is 3" Colt 1877 Lightning! Thanks guys!

October 13, 2010, 07:48 PM	#2
Archer-1911 Member Join Date: October 13, 2010 Posts: 27	Ask the instructor. It depends mainly on the instructor. Some have one you can shoot, others let you bring whatever of yours, others still don't even take you to the range and you qualify with a laser gun (don't ask me that's how a good friend of the families got his). You'd be best off asking the instructor whom is going to be teaching you, or the company you're going through.

October 13, 2010, 08:25 PM	#3
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Mod. note: Title changed to reflect the thread's subject. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

October 13, 2010, 09:46 PM	#4
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	States I have permits in... ... don't register firearms, and don't specify a particular firearm on a carry permit. So, unless the instructor had a requirement to use a pistol intended for carry (my instructor in Florida had no such requirement), any handgun would do. Not sure how that would work in a state that specifies a particular pistol on the permit, but would guess that pistol would have to be used for qual. As Archer-1911 said, best bet is to ask the instructor you plan to use.

October 14, 2010, 08:04 AM	#5
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Here is one thing to check for,,, In my state (Oklahoma) if you take the class with a revolver then your license will restrict you to carrying a revolver or a derringer. If you take the class with a semi-auto pistol you will be licensed to carry any style handgun. I would ask if they have any rental pistols available for the class,,, That's what I did as at the time I did not own a semi-auto. Just something to check,,, . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

October 14, 2010, 08:26 AM	#6
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Most concealed handgun classes, or concealed weapons classes, etc. are a joke. They are geared to getting large numbers of people to simply get their permits. It's like thinking that after taking your basic driving test to get a license that it prepared you to drive a car in all sorts of conditions. So, IMHO, the concealed carry class is a big "0" in someone's determination of what kind of gun is best for daily carry for them. In other words its simply a non-factor. The only way you will know which handgun is best for you to carry is to do your research, ask others who carry lots of questions, familiarize yourself with what you think you might want to carry, figure out what caliber you are comfortable with, try out different modes of carrying in a gunshop if you can. Then, you will simply have to pick a gun, buy it and carry it for a while. If it works out for you - great. If it doesn't, sell/trade it for something that works better for you. Most of us, no matter how experienced and how much we carry, swap out guns/holsters from time to time. Nothing's perfect! Then, you will really need learn how to use your gun in various situations. This requires real training and real instruction and lots of practice. One-on-one kind of training. You need to learn how to draw your weapon; when to fire; how to deal with multiple attackers; how to draw from various positions; how to clear jams or deal with problems; determine your "range" with your chosen weapon and lots of other things that I am forgetting to mention. You need to learn when not to try to use your gun. For instance, if someone sneaks up on you and has a gun pointed at your chest - are you going to try to draw your weapon and shoot??? Better think again. So, my suggestion is do your research, try stuff out, do more research, try more stuff out, ask lots of practical questions, buy a gun and holster, get some real training with what you've got. Carry it daily. Only then will you know if it works for you.

October 14, 2010, 08:35 AM	#7
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	In an "ideal world" a insturctor would provide several types of guns to allow the student the ability to see what fits him and his requirements. The student should be give the opertunity to shoot then enough to make a informed decission, then qualify with the one that fits his needs. Of course in an "ideal world" we would only have guns for sports and pleasure. In the real world, the student should, on his own, try as many pistols and revolvers as possible to make the decission on their own before the class. We tend to put too much on the instructor or coach without putting in the effert on our own. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 14, 2010, 08:35 AM	#8
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Concealed carry classes can be a joke... ... but they are required in some states, in order to get the permit. And in at least one or two states, the specific firearm(s) to be carried must be listed on the permit. No idea if Michigan falls under either category, but odds are we have some Michigan members who can help the OP out.

October 14, 2010, 10:31 AM	#9
Archer-1911 Member Join Date: October 13, 2010 Posts: 27	Michigan PFFT I didn't even noticed OP lived in MI sorry about that dude. The course is manditory in MI and you need to be on the range with an instructor for around an hour. As far as I know you can take the CPL course with just about anything, again that's going to be largely based on the instructors personal convictions. The instructor might frown upon bringing a .460 or .500 S&W but the gun you take the class with does not have to be your final carry piece, I know that for certain. I took my full sized Kimber Custom II, only weapon I had at the time, and qualified no problem. Since then I've carried a couple of different guns. Like I said earlier it's best just to ask the instructor or the facility you plan on taking the course with.

October 14, 2010, 11:40 AM	#10
thesheepdog Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2010 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 1,996	Rent a handgun, then buy one afterwards. __________________ Krav Maga/Judo Qualified Rifleman/Marksmanship Instructor/Lic. Medic "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" Romans 8:1

October 15, 2010, 08:11 AM	#11
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	In Texas, taking the class with a revolver limits you to carrying a revolver, so if that's a concern, you'd have to take an autoloader. The state also specifies the smallest caliber you can test with .. I think it's .38 Spcl. However, you DON'T have to test with the gun you plan to carry, so you could in fact take the test with a borrowed gun and decide later what you want to use as a carry piece. I'm guessing it's different in other states, so know your state's laws before you sign up for the class. I tested -- and renewed -- with my Springer XD 9mm, but I never carry that gun, for a variety of reasons ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

October 15, 2010, 03:58 PM	#12
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	Apparently you don’t own a handgun as of yet, so I would borrow or rent both a revolver and an automatic. That way you can see which style works best for you. Personally I prefer a revolver and recommend a revolver for the first time shooter. Enjoy the class and be safe.

October 15, 2010, 04:10 PM	#13
Stiofan Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2006 Location: Panhandle, Idaho Posts: 714	Actually he says he does own handguns, but only ones with long barrels such as his SW 6" mod 19.

October 15, 2010, 04:24 PM	#14
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hi guys! Thanks for all the input..I have another question..how many rounds are usually required to qualify in these classes? The reason I ask is that I do have a short brl. revolver..didn't mention it before because it's kind of old..a S&W hand-ejector .32 with 4" brl. complete with very slight bulge in brl! If I didn't have to shoot alot, this old timer might fit the bill, other then that, could you bring a .22?...S&W 6" mod. 17? One of these days, I would love to have a 21/2 or 3" Python as carry. Thanks guys!

October 15, 2010, 06:08 PM	#17
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	I guess it depends on the class you take and the instructor. Personally I'd wait till you can get a better idea of what you're going to want in a carry gun. Ask your instructor, he and your state laws are the authorities that matter.

October 15, 2010, 06:48 PM	#18
X_shooter Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 274	I took mine in Michigan and my class required 150 rounds. I shot close to 200 including making more holes for the instructor as well as some steel targets they let us shoot at the end of the class. YMMV. __________________ X_shooter

October 15, 2010, 07:54 PM	#19
Sherlock Member Join Date: September 24, 2010 Posts: 20	Can you visit some ranges and try out some more compact guns? It's great if you can get a feel for the gun you are looking to carry. Take into consideration how you are going to carry it, as previously mentioned, for instance are you able to to wear shirts or polos untucked, do you have to were dress attire? Do you prefer revolvers or semi autos? Are you thinking of carrying in pocket holster, inside the waist band or on a OWB holster? In Ohio it does not matter what we qualify with. I could have shot a S&W revolver and carry a M&P. I don't know how it is in Michigan. I hope you enjoy the class and good luck with choosing a carry piece. __________________ Sherlock NRA Member Traveling Man - Hoover #770 F&AM Freedom exists so long as freemen stand united and devoted to protecting it.

October 15, 2010, 07:59 PM	#20
Dave85 Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,421	Different classes have different requirements, based on their own designs. The State of Michigan only requires an expenditure of 30 rounds during a training program. Also, there is no state requirement that you bring your own gun. My guess is, you should be able to find a course at a gun shop where they would be happy to help you shoot what you think you might like to buy from them. Once you have your CPL (it is a Concealed Pistol License in Michigan), you may carry any legal handgun—revolver, auto, or derringer—that you can keep concealed. Here is a link to the statute that outlines the requirements for training. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --commonly misattributed to, and most likely not, Benjamin Franklin

October 17, 2010, 07:15 PM	#21
IZZY Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 938	dont buy a gun for a course, buy a gun for CARRY. That means YOU should have it on you always outside the home, often inside as well. Choose the biggest and most reliable gun you can comfortably conceil and carry that will do the job. For me it's a glock 30. for you....