NIB GP100 with burn marks?

Papa D · October 10, 2014, 01:32 PM

Was at my LGS (also a pawn shop) contemplating a Ruger GP100 in Stainless. The lady at the desk said it was "New In Box and had never been fired". However, upon opening the cylinder, I witnessed just a messy black all over the front of the Cylinder. Now, I am new to hanguns, and extremely new to revolvers. She was willing to give a satisfactory deal on it (if it was in fact NIB). My question is, would the few test fires done at the factory make a noticeable build up of black on a new gun, or was she pulling my chain and trying to get rid of used merchandise at new prices?

MrBorland · October 10, 2014, 01:43 PM

You'll have to define "noticeable buildup". The front of the cylinder will turn back immediately after firing. No way around that. Getting it thick enough to constitute genuine build-up takes a lot more shooting. If it's really bad, the gap between the front of the cylinder and the end of the barrel closes somewhat, but if you're new to revolvers, it'd be tough to see the difference between normal and too little gap.

Open the cylinder and take a look at the area between the top strap and the barrel to see if there's a build-up of crud there.

Pahoo · October 10, 2014, 02:11 PM

Quote:

My question is, would the few test fires done at the factory make a noticeable build up of black on a new gun, or was she pulling my chain and trying to get rid of used merchandise at new prices?

As always, it really comes down to a matter of trust and if you don't trust this deal, walk away. All my NIB Rugers have not shown this kind of usage. There are other areas on this piece that you can inspect and hopefully give you a better Idea, like the cone and area under the top strap directly across from the cylinder gap. My "gut" feeling is that it's not NIB. ....

Be Safe !!!

Kreyzhorse · October 10, 2014, 05:50 PM

I'd really have to see a picture before I pass judgment. Is it carbon or just grease / junk?

Do you trust this gun shop? Any reason to believe they would try to sell a used gun as new, especially if it might be obvious that it wasn't new?

Furthermore, if I were trying to pass a used gun off as new, why not clean it first to remove obvious signs it has been fired repeatedly?

Webologist · October 10, 2014, 06:31 PM

Cylinder drag marks, cylinder face carbon buildups and cylinder latch drag marks on the frame give an indication of how many times it was cycled and/or fired.

Papa D · October 10, 2014, 07:34 PM

I did not see much in the way of cylinder drag marks (I assume you mean the wear ring around the outside of the cylinder). Also the ejection rod was spotless on both ends. The forcing cone looked clean as well.

**Tom Servo** · October 10, 2014, 09:16 PM

Quote:

My question is, would the few test fires done at the factory make a noticeable build up of black on a new gun

They can. I've seen a few Smiths on which it was quite noticeable. I suppose it depends on what ammo they were using to test-fire it that day.

What I don't trust is when the cylinder face is immaculate.

robhof · October 10, 2014, 09:25 PM

Another thing to remember is the polishing agent, and preservative oils on a new gun will result in residue when fired. I doubt test firers take the time to clean and degrease a gun for firing. As stated turn ring and forcing cone are the best indicators of usage. Are the edges of the cone sharp, the cone rounds out with as little as 50 rounds depending on if it's cast or jacketed ammo used.

James K · October 10, 2014, 09:34 PM

Ruger used to fire every revolver a full cylinder with proof loads, then again with standard loads. I don't know if they still do, but they do fire at least one round from every gun and include the cartridge case for those states that require it. I don't know if they clean the cylinder afterwards, but it wouldn't make any real difference.

Jim

Driftwood Johnson · October 11, 2014, 12:08 PM

Howdy

Ruger does not clean guns after test firing them. I have bought brand new rugers with dirty chambers. If you want them to clean the gun it will cost more.

rem1858 · October 11, 2014, 01:46 PM

I purchased a new in box stainless GP100 a while back.
Had the shop pull out three of them so I could hand pick the best trigger.
All 3 pistols including the one I purchased were all shot at least a cylinder full if not more from the factory.

So yes the front of the cylinder will be dark from factory test firing.

Clarence

Papa D · October 11, 2014, 03:11 PM

Thanks for the responses all. Hope to put some money down on this one in the next week or so. If it is gone by then, looks like I will just have to Gun Genie one and take my wife to the city for a lunch date while picking it up.

James K · October 11, 2014, 03:41 PM

Again, I don't know if the practice is still in effect, but Ruger used to fire revolvers as I said above. Auto pistols and rifles were fired one proof load and one magazine of standard loads. And that did weed out problems.

A Ruger rep told me it was costly, but they figured it was cheap in terms of quality control and that they eliminated 99+ percent of problems that way, avoiding customer complaints and comebacks.

Jim

recoil junky · October 11, 2014, 03:59 PM

Yeah an "un-fired" Ruger has had at least two cylinders full through it. It's a GP100. It'll take a few shots to get it "broke in" anyway. Buy the thing and shoot it. It'll take at least 10,000 rounds to make it noticeably looser than it was when it was new. I have had three of them. The first one, well I wish I still had, one is at the bottom of Kennedy Point Marina in Titusville and the third never leaves my side.

You can't go wrong.

RJ

Driftwood Johnson · October 11, 2014, 10:38 PM

Howdy

It makes no sense to just fire one or two chambers with proof loads. You want to proof each chamber, not just one or two. The Rugers I have bought new in the past have had fouling in all six chambers. Cleaning revolvers is labor intensive. If Ruger were to clean the guns after proof testing, it would significantly raise the cost.

Crankgrinder · October 13, 2014, 10:00 PM

the nib gp100 I bought (traded in for) 2 years ago had a small envelope with an inspectors name and Jan. 2012 stamped on the front with 2 fired .357 shells inside. I clean all my new guns before I use them and it was absolutely filthy in the barrel. ( my sr1911 had copper fouling in the barrel when I got it too). Both have been excellent guns reguardless.

22-rimfire · October 14, 2014, 05:06 PM

A little is okay. But if you are going to shoot it anyway, makes no difference. The one that has always bugged me was a so called NIB S&W blued M57 Mountain Gun that had a strong cylinder trace. They were hard to find and I was in the mood to buy, so I bought it anyway as a "new" revolver. Probably shouldn't have.

Venom1956 · October 14, 2014, 07:58 PM

I'd second the picture I've gotten new guns that have had turn lines and grime on them.

That said there was a local dealer that sold NIB guns that he used on the weekends if he felt like it. I was shocked to see a 5.45 shot with corrosive and not cleaned sitting on the rack. He was bragging about how well it shot with SPAM ammo the previous weekend. Still with NEW tag and all.

Everyones right its about trust.

g.willikers · October 15, 2014, 11:17 AM

Yeah, the first time it's taken to the range, it's going to get even dirtier and depreciate to being a used gun, anyway.
Don't sweat it.
One of the guys who works at a local gun store "borrows" stuff from the showcase every day off.
He says it's to make sure they work as they should.
That's his story and he's sticking to it.
But he'd get a better reception if he'd clean the guns afterward.
Buying one of his test subjects wouldn't bother me, though.
Nothing wrong with getting one that's been tested and known to work.

October 10, 2014, 01:32 PM	#1
Papa D Member Join Date: July 18, 2014 Posts: 30	NIB GP100 with burn marks? Was at my LGS (also a pawn shop) contemplating a Ruger GP100 in Stainless. The lady at the desk said it was "New In Box and had never been fired". However, upon opening the cylinder, I witnessed just a messy black all over the front of the Cylinder. Now, I am new to hanguns, and extremely new to revolvers. She was willing to give a satisfactory deal on it (if it was in fact NIB). My question is, would the few test fires done at the factory make a noticeable build up of black on a new gun, or was she pulling my chain and trying to get rid of used merchandise at new prices? __________________ Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. ~2 Chronicles 7:14

October 10, 2014, 05:50 PM	#4
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	I'd really have to see a picture before I pass judgment. Is it carbon or just grease / junk? Do you trust this gun shop? Any reason to believe they would try to sell a used gun as new, especially if it might be obvious that it wasn't new? Furthermore, if I were trying to pass a used gun off as new, why not clean it first to remove obvious signs it has been fired repeatedly? __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

October 10, 2014, 07:34 PM	#6
Papa D Member Join Date: July 18, 2014 Posts: 30	I did not see much in the way of cylinder drag marks (I assume you mean the wear ring around the outside of the cylinder). Also the ejection rod was spotless on both ends. The forcing cone looked clean as well. __________________ Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. ~2 Chronicles 7:14

October 10, 2014, 09:25 PM	#8
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Another thing to remember is the polishing agent, and preservative oils on a new gun will result in residue when fired. I doubt test firers take the time to clean and degrease a gun for firing. As stated turn ring and forcing cone are the best indicators of usage. Are the edges of the cone sharp, the cone rounds out with as little as 50 rounds depending on if it's cast or jacketed ammo used.

October 11, 2014, 01:46 PM	#11
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	I purchased a new in box stainless GP100 a while back. Had the shop pull out three of them so I could hand pick the best trigger. All 3 pistols including the one I purchased were all shot at least a cylinder full if not more from the factory. So yes the front of the cylinder will be dark from factory test firing. Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

October 10, 2014, 01:43 PM	#2
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	You'll have to define "noticeable buildup". The front of the cylinder will turn back immediately after firing. No way around that. Getting it thick enough to constitute genuine build-up takes a lot more shooting. If it's really bad, the gap between the front of the cylinder and the end of the barrel closes somewhat, but if you're new to revolvers, it'd be tough to see the difference between normal and too little gap. Open the cylinder and take a look at the area between the top strap and the barrel to see if there's a build-up of crud there.

October 10, 2014, 06:31 PM	#5
Webologist Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Posts: 45	Cylinder drag marks, cylinder face carbon buildups and cylinder latch drag marks on the frame give an indication of how many times it was cycled and/or fired.

October 10, 2014, 09:34 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Ruger used to fire every revolver a full cylinder with proof loads, then again with standard loads. I don't know if they still do, but they do fire at least one round from every gun and include the cartridge case for those states that require it. I don't know if they clean the cylinder afterwards, but it wouldn't make any real difference. Jim

October 11, 2014, 12:08 PM	#10
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Ruger does not clean guns after test firing them. I have bought brand new rugers with dirty chambers. If you want them to clean the gun it will cost more.

October 11, 2014, 03:11 PM	#12
Papa D Member Join Date: July 18, 2014 Posts: 30	Thanks for the responses all. Hope to put some money down on this one in the next week or so. If it is gone by then, looks like I will just have to Gun Genie one and take my wife to the city for a lunch date while picking it up. __________________ Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. ~2 Chronicles 7:14

October 11, 2014, 03:41 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Again, I don't know if the practice is still in effect, but Ruger used to fire revolvers as I said above. Auto pistols and rifles were fired one proof load and one magazine of standard loads. And that did weed out problems. A Ruger rep told me it was costly, but they figured it was cheap in terms of quality control and that they eliminated 99+ percent of problems that way, avoiding customer complaints and comebacks. Jim

October 11, 2014, 03:59 PM	#14
recoil junky Member Join Date: June 20, 2014 Location: TheElkHuntingCapitol CraigCO Posts: 60	Yeah an "un-fired" Ruger has had at least two cylinders full through it. It's a GP100. It'll take a few shots to get it "broke in" anyway. Buy the thing and shoot it. It'll take at least 10,000 rounds to make it noticeably looser than it was when it was new. I have had three of them. The first one, well I wish I still had, one is at the bottom of Kennedy Point Marina in Titusville and the third never leaves my side. You can't go wrong. RJ

October 11, 2014, 10:38 PM	#15
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy It makes no sense to just fire one or two chambers with proof loads. You want to proof each chamber, not just one or two. The Rugers I have bought new in the past have had fouling in all six chambers. Cleaning revolvers is labor intensive. If Ruger were to clean the guns after proof testing, it would significantly raise the cost.

October 13, 2014, 10:00 PM	#16
Crankgrinder Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 917	the nib gp100 I bought (traded in for) 2 years ago had a small envelope with an inspectors name and Jan. 2012 stamped on the front with 2 fired .357 shells inside. I clean all my new guns before I use them and it was absolutely filthy in the barrel. ( my sr1911 had copper fouling in the barrel when I got it too). Both have been excellent guns reguardless.

October 14, 2014, 05:06 PM	#17
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	A little is okay. But if you are going to shoot it anyway, makes no difference. The one that has always bugged me was a so called NIB S&W blued M57 Mountain Gun that had a strong cylinder trace. They were hard to find and I was in the mood to buy, so I bought it anyway as a "new" revolver. Probably shouldn't have.

October 14, 2014, 07:58 PM	#18
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	I'd second the picture I've gotten new guns that have had turn lines and grime on them. That said there was a local dealer that sold NIB guns that he used on the weekends if he felt like it. I was shocked to see a 5.45 shot with corrosive and not cleaned sitting on the rack. He was bragging about how well it shot with SPAM ammo the previous weekend. Still with NEW tag and all. Everyones right its about trust. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

October 15, 2014, 11:17 AM	#19
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Yeah, the first time it's taken to the range, it's going to get even dirtier and depreciate to being a used gun, anyway. Don't sweat it. One of the guys who works at a local gun store "borrows" stuff from the showcase every day off. He says it's to make sure they work as they should. That's his story and he's sticking to it. But he'd get a better reception if he'd clean the guns afterward. Buying one of his test subjects wouldn't bother me, though. Nothing wrong with getting one that's been tested and known to work. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”