New Home Defence Shotgun

V.Hunter · June 12, 2009, 11:13 PM

I decided to buy a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense as well as a little fun. The problem was that I couldn’t decide which make or model to buy. I poured over the net, handled as many as possible, and tried to decide which would best suit my needs.

I am not a "SHTF" worrier or an armchair commando so all I wanted was a good dependable shotgun to handle the situation if it so happen to arise.

What I decided on was a used steel receiver J.C. Higgins pump gun with a 28" barrel and 2 3/4" chamber. My smith is going to change the length of pull add a Decelerator pad, cut and crown the barrel to 18", remove the mag plug, and install an oversized luminous front bead.

I decided on this gun for a few reasons. First, it has a steel receiver and good solid wood stock, in the event that I do need to use it for home defense I may not have time to chamber a round or maybe take aim. If this were to happen I could still use the shotgun as a weapon as it is made with honest to goodness steel and wood and would withstand a beating and still function.

Second, for home defense you do not need 7, 8, or 9 rounds like many of the defensive shotguns out there so the simple unplugged mag tube will hold 4 with one in the chamber for a total of 5.

Third, the 2 3/4" chamber is more than adequate for any use I will have. You do not need magnum loadings of 3" shells for home defense.

Last and certainly not least is the fact that I bought this shotgun and after the smith does all of the work I am still only going to have $322 into the entire thing. I don’t think you can beat that.

I'll post a few pics after I pick it up when all the work is done.

So what do you guys think of my reasoning?

madmag · June 12, 2009, 11:33 PM

Nothing wrong with your reasoning. Your gun choice is good. But just be careful about the 18" length. Make the barrel 18.5" or 19'' to be safe. Remember to measure from the bolt surface in closed position.

V.Hunter · June 12, 2009, 11:41 PM

Do shotguns have to have a longer barrel than rifles? I never really looked into that as I have always been a rifle guy. If that is the case I'm glad I started this thread as I have learned something.

hogdogs · June 13, 2009, 12:23 AM

16 inch on rifles... 18 inches for shotgun fed law.
18.5 is wise as a fed may have a stingy tape measure...
No crown needed just round the muzzle off with a reamer or file...
Brent

V.Hunter · June 13, 2009, 06:57 AM

I knew it was 16 on rifles and I was pretty sure it was 18 on shotguns but I just thought I may be wrong after it was suggested that I go just a little longer. I understand the reasoning of the 18.5" or so.

As far as a crown I realize that there isnt a need for a traditional crown as used on rifles but I just use that term for both as there is still very much a need to finish the muzzle after cutting.

thanks for the feedback guys.

Dave McC · June 13, 2009, 07:04 AM

It was 18" for both rifles and shotguns from 1934 until after WWII. As M1 carbines were surplussed, t'was noted they had barrels too short by law. The law was amended.

Length is determined by the distance from the breech face to the closest point on the muzzle to the breech.

Also, Fed law requires an OA length of 26" on long arms.

HTH....

olddrum1 · June 13, 2009, 08:01 AM

Your ruining the collectability of this fine JC Higgins shotgun by chopping on the barrel and stock. I would leave them as is. Who knows. In fifty to seventy five years this gun could be approaching $150 to $200 in value. My point being you could have probably bought one of the Mossbergs made for this for the same money with and later added a barrel for hunting. Now you have a JCH shotgun that you probably will not ever see your money out of.

sholling · June 13, 2009, 10:25 AM

I have to agree with olddrum1, I'd have just bought a Mossberg 500. You can get the combo with both 18.5" and 28" barrels for under $300. I'd also forget the club angle and buy a $20 bandoleer for extra ammo or a 4 cell maglight.

V.Hunter · June 13, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

I have to agree with olddrum1, I'd have just bought a Mossberg 500. You can get the combo with both 18.5" and 28" barrels for under $300. I'd also forget the club angle and buy a $20 bandoleer for extra ammo or a 4 cell maglight.

True but I have handled Mossberg’s and there is no comparison to the Higgins, their (Mossberg's) alloy receivers don’t impress me. Besides I have shotguns for hunting I didn’t need another.

As far as a bandolier goes I don’t get that, how does that help you in a self defense situation? Sure If I were awaiting the fall of society maybe but for home intrusion I don’t see the need for a bandolier as it is one more thing to look for and fiddle with when you could be addressing the threat at hand. As far as the Mag Lite goes, great idea and already have one.

Quote:

Now you have a JCH shotgun that you probably will not ever see your money out of.

And tell me how I would ever see my money out of a Mossberg if purchased for the same thing? They are a dime a dozen on the used market and have none of the features that I personally like. I dont like light alloy receivers and plastic hollow stocks and am not into the "tacticool" look of most that are being marketed at this time. Sure a few of the defender models simply have synthetic stocks and an extended tube but then there is still the issue of the receiver and stock that I do not care for.

I see your points, but now I have what I want and was looking for more feedback on the way that it will be modified as opposed to what else I could have gotten in its place.

Thank you all for the feedback.

hogdogs · June 13, 2009, 11:35 AM

I won't sport a sling of any type on my HD gun... just one more thing to snag a framed picture or a lamp etc. Momma is gonna be mad enuff about the bloody mess for me to get in more trouble breaking things...

The way you will see the money return from a mossberg is they are in a special niche market right now as a low dough HD gun. I could sell my 20 gauge 500 for twenty more than I bought it for 20 years ago... $190 for an 18 inch factory black gun when I pais $170...
Is the higgins a dual action bar? Who made them?
Brent

V.Hunter · June 13, 2009, 12:24 PM

Brent,

If I remember correctly it is a dual bar gun. I didn’t look over it as close as I should and am not a shotgun guy. I was impressed with the feel, heft, and smooth function of the gun along with the cheap price. I have all of my guns modified to fit me and my needs so I am not interested in resale value.

As far as who made it I am not sure, I cannot remember what the exact model number was to look it up. I am going to stop by the shop on Monday to talk about another project; I'll get the model number then and look it up.

I have sold guns in the past but they were all firearms that I bought as investments. Firearms that I buy for use are rarely sold.

hogdogs · June 13, 2009, 12:37 PM

Same here... All my guns are "for use" so not for sale...
I used to engrave the frames of all with my DL# and "NOT FOR SALE, TRADE OR PAWN" Kinda ruins their value and keeps me in line when low on money!

Brent

Kmar40 · June 13, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

True but I have handled Mossberg’s and there is no comparison to the Higgins, their (Mossberg's) alloy receivers don’t impress me. Besides I have shotguns for hunting I didn’t need another.

I have no qualms with your choice of the Higgins. In fact, almost any repeating shotgun is a decent choice.

As for you statement that the alloy receiver, Browning, Mossberg, Winchester, FN, Benelli, and others have been using allow receivers for many decades with no problems.

V.Hunter · June 13, 2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

As for you statement that the alloy receiver, Browning, Mossberg, Winchester, FN, Benelli, and others have been using allow receivers for many decades with no problems.

I don’t so much see a problem with them and I haven’t heard of any real problems it is just a preference of mine for the receivers on my firearms to be steel. I also will only use steel bases and rings, not because the alloy models are inferior (I'm not saying alloy anything is inferior) just because I don’t like them, lol.

tirod · June 15, 2009, 10:13 AM

It sounds like a good setup. I'm considering doing the exact same chop on a 870, no accessories, and leaving it cylinder. Frankly, the less money spent, the better - it's going to sit at home and be relatively unused, like most HD guns.

Financially, there's no advantage to spending twice as much for an unmeasurable increment of "performance." And purchasing a used firearm works even better - the future resale value is entirely independent of the market's past performance, and I've got the indexed futures fund to prove it. To be truly valuable as a collectable, it practically has to be unused, stored in museum grade conditions, be a rare variation, and entirely unavailable otherwise. Another JC Higgins shooter won't rate much appreciation, chopped or not.

By then, a whole subculture of collecting could be centered on the early 2000's gun scare guns, just like half a dozen other collectibles. It certainly won't hurt it's utility value - it's still going to be a good shooter.

Chopping good used shotguns for HD makes a lot of sense - no worries about banging up the finish, making repairs or minor alterations that make sense, keeps the market on guns moving, and shuts down the overhyped tacticool shotgun makers that have been fleecing gunowners for the last 25 years. The last thing most need is a PG rail gun with multiple lumen sources - most owners don't even practice enough to find the switches in the right order, much less train in a shooting house with live ammo. The whole concept of the virtuous homeowner blasting the BG with one is a fantasy entertained by the youthful and misdirected. Their most effective application seems to be as source material for video game programmers.

Get out a shoot a crate or two, get muscle memory for how it works, try to schedule some workouts in an urban environment - you'll be way ahead of the typical black shotgun toter showing off his "entry team special" at the local range to his buddies . . .

sholling · June 15, 2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

True but I have handled Mossberg’s and there is no comparison to the Higgins, their (Mossberg's) alloy receivers don’t impress me.

They impressed the US military enough to issue them for combat. I doubt that your home defense shotgun will see harder use than combat. The military still issues shotguns with aluminum receivers (Benellis and Mossbergs). But it's your money spend it how you like and enjoy.

Quote:

As far as a bandolier goes I don’t get that, how does that help you in a self defense situation? Sure If I were awaiting the fall of society maybe but for home intrusion I don’t see the need for a bandolier as it is one more thing to look for and fiddle with when you could be addressing the threat at hand.

Let me explain it to you. I've been out of ammo (didn't own any) in a home defense situation and it's a sick feeling. I will never be short on ready ammo in another. Second, 4rds just might not be enough, especially in a home invasion situation which often involve 4 bad guys. I'm a good shot but I have been known to miss once in a blue moon. These days I live in a nice middle class neighborhood in a small town but I still keep 4 loaded spare mags next my 45, and a bandoleer of 00 buck on a coat hook by my bed. I just toss a robe over it so that isn't visible to guests. Nothing has to be looked for. Grab the shotty with one hand and slip the bandoleer on with the other.

V.Hunter · June 16, 2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

They impressed the US military enough to issue them for combat. I doubt that your home defense shotgun will see harder use than combat. The military still issues shotguns with aluminum receivers (Benellis and Mossbergs). But it's your money spend it how you like and enjoy.

I'm sure they were more impressed with the $1.95 they could buy them for rather than the quality and ruggedness of the product.

Again I never said anything bad about them I simply said that I prefer steel.

Quote:

Let me explain it to you. I've been out of ammo (didn't own any) in a home defense situation and it's a sick feeling. I will never be short on ready ammo in another.

Understood. I'm hoping that in the even that I have to use it that the first few shots will scare the "you know what" out of however many intruders there are. I always have my 40 in the nightstand so I'm sure I'll grab that also in the event of an actual emergency.

Thank you for the input, thats something to think about. Now you kind of got me thinking about the whole ammo thing.

Katrina Guy · June 16, 2009, 11:58 PM

First off I wouldn't want to be witnessed shooting a home invader while wearing a bandolier...the Rambo look doesn't sit well with jurors. I have one, coming out of Katrina where wearing one (didn't have one then) while you sit on your front porch would be par for the course. I don't keep mine (I have one now) loaded as I feared the shells would stretch out the elastic holders maybe, so it sits in my emergency box.

sholling · June 17, 2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

First off I wouldn't want to be witnessed shooting a home invader while wearing a bandolier...the Rambo look doesn't sit well with jurors.

If you shoot an intruder in your home nobody is going to care if you have a bandoleer. You aren't chasing people down the street, you're in your own home.
I'd rather explain a bandoleer than run out of ammo. Not many bad guys let you call a time out to get more.
Who cares if the elastic stretches? I'll spend the $25 every 4-5 years for a new one.

V.Hunter · June 17, 2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

First off I wouldn't want to be witnessed shooting a home invader while wearing a bandolier...the Rambo look doesn't sit well with jurors.

You are right but I have to say..."I don’t care what they think". Chances are you aren’t wearing it anyway but rather have it in hand or draped over a shoulder or something as most home invasions don’t allow you time to outfit yourself, you have to act and act fast.

There were 3 armed home invasions over the weekend about 30 miles from here, one victim was shot but is expected to make a full recovery. Not next door but too close for my comfort. I will be on my smith today about finishing my shotgun ASAP. I am now thinking about carrying (handgun) while I am home as these invasions where in broad daylight. Two of the homes were occupied by the families when they occurred.

Katrina Guy · June 17, 2009, 08:44 AM

...the type of firearm you use and accessories that go along with it matters not to a jury whether or not you shot someone inside your own home! If you believe that you must be from another planet. The difference between grabbing a firearm to defend yourself vs, to the uneducated gun wise jury, a firearm that looks offensive vs defensive...case could be made that you took an offensive position rather then you had to shoot out of defensive purposes to save your life only. Why some of these bad ass looking firearms with heat shields and cool tactic thingys on the end like muzzle something or others, and/or bayonets, those type of tacti cool firearms can come back to hurt you, and I'd throw in a bandalioer strapped across one's chest right in there...all up to you, want to appear like Joe Q citizen who had no choice so he grabbed the family shotgun, or Ponch Villa armed to bear with a don't tread on me look. Up to you *S*.

hogdogs · June 17, 2009, 09:00 AM

Here is my take on a bandoleer... If you need 5 or 6 more rounds loaded up... yer in a severe bind!
You need to retreat to cover to reload. I will make way to my shell inventory where I have additional loaded firepower at the ready.
Brent

Csspecs · June 17, 2009, 09:17 AM

Seems like a ok choice on the gun.... Pump guns are just about always seen as "working guns" and don't really seem to gain value past market value on new.

As for the bandoleer I carry one hunting and find them to be a pain other then keeping the shells from rattling. Keep it off the gun what ever you do, if you have it near by the gun you can grab it and use the shells if need be, then leave it where you are when the police arrive.. Also good to pick one with camo print and have an orange vest and hat close by, looks better if your a "hunter" that shot to save his life rather then someone planning to shoot the first "bad guy" that walked in.

Thats just my take on it.

Oh yeah, my bandoleer (one that looks goes on like a belt and holds 25) has been loaded with shells for 8 years and it still works the same, I use it every year and every time.
I got one from my Grandfather that was from the 50s-60s and it still hold shells tightly but the cloth that hold it together is starting to dry rot from being stored in his leaky shed. So don't worry about wearing it out.

Katrina Guy · June 17, 2009, 09:23 AM

Appearence can mean so much to the un gun wise juror, especially in a civil trial. RAMBO who couldn't wait for the opt, who sat and waited for the intruder to come in so he could nail him, vs the APPEARENCE of Joe Q citizen who grabbed his hunting shotgun to defend himself. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this "appearence" difference Csspecs! We all know that all of that crap one puts on shotgun doesn't enhance it's performance rather may slow one down using it since it may become cumbersome now, but to the untrained eye, it reaks of RAMBO.

Katrina Guy · June 17, 2009, 09:33 AM

Exceptions would be emergency situations such as L.A. Riots some time back or a Katrina type situation more recently.

June 12, 2009, 11:13 PM	#1
V.Hunter Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Posts: 159	New Home Defence Shotgun I decided to buy a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense as well as a little fun. The problem was that I couldn’t decide which make or model to buy. I poured over the net, handled as many as possible, and tried to decide which would best suit my needs. I am not a "SHTF" worrier or an armchair commando so all I wanted was a good dependable shotgun to handle the situation if it so happen to arise. What I decided on was a used steel receiver J.C. Higgins pump gun with a 28" barrel and 2 3/4" chamber. My smith is going to change the length of pull add a Decelerator pad, cut and crown the barrel to 18", remove the mag plug, and install an oversized luminous front bead. I decided on this gun for a few reasons. First, it has a steel receiver and good solid wood stock, in the event that I do need to use it for home defense I may not have time to chamber a round or maybe take aim. If this were to happen I could still use the shotgun as a weapon as it is made with honest to goodness steel and wood and would withstand a beating and still function. Second, for home defense you do not need 7, 8, or 9 rounds like many of the defensive shotguns out there so the simple unplugged mag tube will hold 4 with one in the chamber for a total of 5. Third, the 2 3/4" chamber is more than adequate for any use I will have. You do not need magnum loadings of 3" shells for home defense. Last and certainly not least is the fact that I bought this shotgun and after the smith does all of the work I am still only going to have $322 into the entire thing. I don’t think you can beat that. I'll post a few pics after I pick it up when all the work is done. So what do you guys think of my reasoning? Last edited by V.Hunter; June 12, 2009 at 11:22 PM. Reason: was thinking wrong

June 13, 2009, 10:25 AM	#8
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	I have to agree with olddrum1, I'd have just bought a Mossberg 500. You can get the combo with both 18.5" and 28" barrels for under $300. I'd also forget the club angle and buy a $20 bandoleer for extra ammo or a 4 cell maglight. __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.

June 16, 2009, 11:58 PM	#18
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	I have a bandolier but for typical home defense First off I wouldn't want to be witnessed shooting a home invader while wearing a bandolier...the Rambo look doesn't sit well with jurors. I have one, coming out of Katrina where wearing one (didn't have one then) while you sit on your front porch would be par for the course. I don't keep mine (I have one now) loaded as I feared the shells would stretch out the elastic holders maybe, so it sits in my emergency box.

June 17, 2009, 08:44 AM	#21
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	I'll buy your reasoning but don't think for a minute that.. ...the type of firearm you use and accessories that go along with it matters not to a jury whether or not you shot someone inside your own home! If you believe that you must be from another planet. The difference between grabbing a firearm to defend yourself vs, to the uneducated gun wise jury, a firearm that looks offensive vs defensive...case could be made that you took an offensive position rather then you had to shoot out of defensive purposes to save your life only. Why some of these bad ass looking firearms with heat shields and cool tactic thingys on the end like muzzle something or others, and/or bayonets, those type of tacti cool firearms can come back to hurt you, and I'd throw in a bandalioer strapped across one's chest right in there...all up to you, want to appear like Joe Q citizen who had no choice so he grabbed the family shotgun, or Ponch Villa armed to bear with a don't tread on me look. Up to you S.

June 17, 2009, 09:17 AM	#23
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Seems like a ok choice on the gun.... Pump guns are just about always seen as "working guns" and don't really seem to gain value past market value on new. As for the bandoleer I carry one hunting and find them to be a pain other then keeping the shells from rattling. Keep it off the gun what ever you do, if you have it near by the gun you can grab it and use the shells if need be, then leave it where you are when the police arrive.. Also good to pick one with camo print and have an orange vest and hat close by, looks better if your a "hunter" that shot to save his life rather then someone planning to shoot the first "bad guy" that walked in. Thats just my take on it. Oh yeah, my bandoleer (one that looks goes on like a belt and holds 25) has been loaded with shells for 8 years and it still works the same, I use it every year and every time. I got one from my Grandfather that was from the 50s-60s and it still hold shells tightly but the cloth that hold it together is starting to dry rot from being stored in his leaky shed. So don't worry about wearing it out. Last edited by Csspecs; June 17, 2009 at 09:24 AM.

June 12, 2009, 11:33 PM	#2
madmag Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2007 Location: The South Posts: 4,239	Nothing wrong with your reasoning. Your gun choice is good. But just be careful about the 18" length. Make the barrel 18.5" or 19'' to be safe. Remember to measure from the bolt surface in closed position.

June 12, 2009, 11:41 PM	#3
V.Hunter Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Posts: 159	Do shotguns have to have a longer barrel than rifles? I never really looked into that as I have always been a rifle guy. If that is the case I'm glad I started this thread as I have learned something.

June 13, 2009, 12:23 AM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	16 inch on rifles... 18 inches for shotgun fed law. 18.5 is wise as a fed may have a stingy tape measure... No crown needed just round the muzzle off with a reamer or file... Brent

June 13, 2009, 06:57 AM	#5
V.Hunter Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Posts: 159	I knew it was 16 on rifles and I was pretty sure it was 18 on shotguns but I just thought I may be wrong after it was suggested that I go just a little longer. I understand the reasoning of the 18.5" or so. As far as a crown I realize that there isnt a need for a traditional crown as used on rifles but I just use that term for both as there is still very much a need to finish the muzzle after cutting. thanks for the feedback guys.

June 13, 2009, 07:04 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	It was 18" for both rifles and shotguns from 1934 until after WWII. As M1 carbines were surplussed, t'was noted they had barrels too short by law. The law was amended. Length is determined by the distance from the breech face to the closest point on the muzzle to the breech. Also, Fed law requires an OA length of 26" on long arms. HTH....

June 13, 2009, 08:01 AM	#7
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Your ruining the collectability of this fine JC Higgins shotgun by chopping on the barrel and stock. I would leave them as is. Who knows. In fifty to seventy five years this gun could be approaching $150 to $200 in value. My point being you could have probably bought one of the Mossbergs made for this for the same money with and later added a barrel for hunting. Now you have a JCH shotgun that you probably will not ever see your money out of.

June 13, 2009, 11:35 AM	#10
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I won't sport a sling of any type on my HD gun... just one more thing to snag a framed picture or a lamp etc. Momma is gonna be mad enuff about the bloody mess for me to get in more trouble breaking things... The way you will see the money return from a mossberg is they are in a special niche market right now as a low dough HD gun. I could sell my 20 gauge 500 for twenty more than I bought it for 20 years ago... $190 for an 18 inch factory black gun when I pais $170... Is the higgins a dual action bar? Who made them? Brent

June 13, 2009, 12:24 PM	#11
V.Hunter Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Posts: 159	Brent, If I remember correctly it is a dual bar gun. I didn’t look over it as close as I should and am not a shotgun guy. I was impressed with the feel, heft, and smooth function of the gun along with the cheap price. I have all of my guns modified to fit me and my needs so I am not interested in resale value. As far as who made it I am not sure, I cannot remember what the exact model number was to look it up. I am going to stop by the shop on Monday to talk about another project; I'll get the model number then and look it up. I have sold guns in the past but they were all firearms that I bought as investments. Firearms that I buy for use are rarely sold.

June 13, 2009, 12:37 PM	#12
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Same here... All my guns are "for use" so not for sale... I used to engrave the frames of all with my DL# and "NOT FOR SALE, TRADE OR PAWN" Kinda ruins their value and keeps me in line when low on money! Brent

June 15, 2009, 10:13 AM	#15
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	It sounds like a good setup. I'm considering doing the exact same chop on a 870, no accessories, and leaving it cylinder. Frankly, the less money spent, the better - it's going to sit at home and be relatively unused, like most HD guns. Financially, there's no advantage to spending twice as much for an unmeasurable increment of "performance." And purchasing a used firearm works even better - the future resale value is entirely independent of the market's past performance, and I've got the indexed futures fund to prove it. To be truly valuable as a collectable, it practically has to be unused, stored in museum grade conditions, be a rare variation, and entirely unavailable otherwise. Another JC Higgins shooter won't rate much appreciation, chopped or not. By then, a whole subculture of collecting could be centered on the early 2000's gun scare guns, just like half a dozen other collectibles. It certainly won't hurt it's utility value - it's still going to be a good shooter. Chopping good used shotguns for HD makes a lot of sense - no worries about banging up the finish, making repairs or minor alterations that make sense, keeps the market on guns moving, and shuts down the overhyped tacticool shotgun makers that have been fleecing gunowners for the last 25 years. The last thing most need is a PG rail gun with multiple lumen sources - most owners don't even practice enough to find the switches in the right order, much less train in a shooting house with live ammo. The whole concept of the virtuous homeowner blasting the BG with one is a fantasy entertained by the youthful and misdirected. Their most effective application seems to be as source material for video game programmers. Get out a shoot a crate or two, get muscle memory for how it works, try to schedule some workouts in an urban environment - you'll be way ahead of the typical black shotgun toter showing off his "entry team special" at the local range to his buddies . . .

June 17, 2009, 09:00 AM	#22
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Here is my take on a bandoleer... If you need 5 or 6 more rounds loaded up... yer in a severe bind! You need to retreat to cover to reload. I will make way to my shell inventory where I have additional loaded firepower at the ready. Brent

June 17, 2009, 09:23 AM	#24
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	Csspecs, that's my point, appearence. Appearence can mean so much to the un gun wise juror, especially in a civil trial. RAMBO who couldn't wait for the opt, who sat and waited for the intruder to come in so he could nail him, vs the APPEARENCE of Joe Q citizen who grabbed his hunting shotgun to defend himself. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this "appearence" difference Csspecs! We all know that all of that crap one puts on shotgun doesn't enhance it's performance rather may slow one down using it since it may become cumbersome now, but to the untrained eye, it reaks of RAMBO.

June 17, 2009, 09:33 AM	#25
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	All of that said, back to bandalier, Exceptions would be emergency situations such as L.A. Riots some time back or a Katrina type situation more recently.