.223 and Federal Primers

[Fox1]

I've been reloading .223 for a bolt action Remington in order to learn how to reload bottle necked cases and I've gotten the basics down pretty well with a light powder load. I've been reading a lot of "Don't use Federal Primers in an automatic" and comments about "slam firing" with these primers.

I think I have an idea of what slam firing is but since I am not positive, I wanted to ask here.

Is this where the bolt slams into the round and the firing pin hits the primer and causes the round to go off IN THE TUBE or IN THE BREECH?

Obviously I don't want to injure myself finding out but is this something that is inconvenient or dangerous?

Will I need to make double sure now that none of my reloads with Federal Primers ever get fired through an AR?

[Loader9]

Slam fire is when the bolt slams shut, the firing pin retaining enough forward inertia will strike the primer causing it to fire the round. I use Federal Match primers in all of my AR rifles and have never had a slam fire. But it can happen with almost any primer, not just Federal. The CCI 41 primers are suppose to have a tougher cup to eliminate the issue.

[Sport45]

A lot of the worry can be avoided if you allow the bolt to strip a round out of the magazine when loading. The risk of slam fires is greater when you put the cartridge in the chamber and allow the bolt to fly home without any resistance. I use Winchester rifle primers for my AR and M1 and have never had a problem. When single loading the M1 I release the bolt about halfway through its travel.

[cdrt]

Slam fires are caused by high primers.

I've used both Winchesters and CCI military primers in my M1. Both work equally well. In the AR, I've used both Winchester and std CCIs without a problem.

[kraigwy]

I've been reading a lot of "Don't use Federal Primers in an automatic" and comments about "slam firing" with these primers

Dont know where that came from, more federal primers have been used in ARs (223) in high power then any other brand of primers.

Never heard of problems with federal primers. However White Oak, recommends against using Winchester Primers in their Uppers because they are thinner and you may get slam fires.

On ARs the bolt & firing pins are quite a bit lighter then the M14s & M1s and slam fires for what ever reason are less common.

On all my guns, especally my target rifles, I match the primer too the rilfe. Not all primers are good for all rifle and ammunition combinations. You should just try as many differant primers as you can to see what works best in your gun and handloaded ammo components.

[Sevens]

I've seen some firing pins for sale advertised as being lighter, with less mass so as not to carry forward under momentum, helping to avoid the problem.

You asked if it's an annoyance or dangerous? You'd have a helluva time convincing anyone that it's anything but horribly dangerous. If you were on a rifle range and you sent the bolt forward and it slam-fires, EXACTLY where was your muzzle pointing? If it's not pointing at the ground or toward the back stop, that bullet is headed for a 5 mile flight.

If you are at the loading bench and you have produced some rounds and you wish to check them to see if they chamber properly and you have a slam fire, where is THAT bullet headed? Somewhere in your house?

Federal does have the reputation of being some of the softest rifle primers out there. Whether this is a real and common problem or just overblown internet myth remains to be seen.

[F. Guffey]

Fox1, Slam fire? as mentioned, a high primer can cause problems in different ways, powder can trickle down the flash hole and fill the space in front of the primer, when chambered, the bolt can seat the primer and without room to move forward, the powder can move the anvil back and fire the case, on another forum, someone was using an inertia bullet puller, the way the post was written it sounded like the person doing the hammering was pulling bullets in a crowd, everyone and everything was blamed except a high primer, I believe he attempted to pull a bullet on a case and in his efforts, he seated the primer that was supported with powder that trickled town the flash hole.

Most blamed the shell holder, seems they thought the shell holder did not center or the case floated in the shell holder, pulling bullets in a crowd? Reloading with an audience?

The next time you load for your rifle, use different primers, load two, fire one, eject the 2nd unfired round, mark and save, after you have enough ejected cases, examine the dent in the primers and compare, if one primer is softer, the dent will be larger, something like testing lead for hardness, area, weight and time.

A friend, actually two, one was helping the other, closed the slide on a 1911 Colt, the bullet went through the roof, come to find out, the firing pin was stuck 'OUT', I did not find out about it until one day I was checking some loads and I released the slide and chambered a round, that is when they told me what happened and told me not to DO THAT, especially when they are around.

F. Guffey

[Fox1]

Sevens
You asked if it's an annoyance or dangerous? You'd have a helluva time convincing anyone that it's anything but horribly dangerous. If you were on a rifle range and you sent the bolt forward and it slam-fires, EXACTLY where was your muzzle pointing? If it's not pointing at the ground or toward the back stop, that bullet is headed for a 5 mile flight.

If you are at the loading bench and you have produced some rounds and you wish to check them to see if they chamber properly and you have a slam fire, where is THAT bullet headed? Somewhere in your house?

At the range, I try to always have the muzzle pointed at/toward the target when closing the bolt. I go over and over this point (as well as finger off the trigger, muzzle control when "empty", always check the chamber) with my sons every time we are shooting. So I should have clarified when I asked that question. Seems, with the muzzle pointing at the ground or a backstop, that it would just be an annoyance.

For cartridge testing, I'll load an unprimed, resized case at the bench but, because of the primer concerns, I won't test load a completed cartridge until we are at the range.

F. Guffey
Fox1, Slam fire? as mentioned, a high primer can cause problems in different ways...

The next time you load for your rifle, use different primers, load two, fire one, eject the 2nd unfired round, mark and save, after you have enough ejected cases, examine the dent in the primers and compare, if one primer is softer, the dent will be larger, something like testing lead for hardness, area, weight and time.

F. Guffey

This method sounds very reasonable and I think it is the one I will follow.

Last question, in a slam fire situation, could this result in a "run away gun" if you had a magazine full of rounds with high primers?
This was actually the biggest concern I had was that the first one would fire, cycle the bolt, reload, fire again... wash, rinse, repeat.
Not really in the mood to deal with a runaway.

[cdrt]

Last question, in a slam fire situation, could this result in a "run away gun" if you had a magazine full of rounds with high primers?

It depends. Check out these two links. They may give you some insight. Generally with an M1 or M1A, if you have a slam fire/out of battery fire, the receiver will be destoyed.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

http://www.fulton-armory.com/SlamFire2.htm

[amamnn]

If you use the butt end of your calipers, you can measure how deep you've seated the primer below flush. .003" below is generally considered to be the optimum seating for ARs.

There is a very good chapter in the Sierra manual about loading for service rifles and their clones. There is also a separate chapter in the load data for the AR .223/5.56 load as opposed to the bolt guns.