Instructors: Emergency Medical Plans?

smince · May 30, 2011, 02:58 PM

Based off this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451845

Those of you who instruct, do you have a plan in case of an accidental shooting? Heart Attack/Stroke?

Consider that many ranges used for training are remote or semi-remote.

Students: is this a consideration for you when taking classes? Or have you ever even given it a thought?

All the pro classes I've taken, we were given instructions on what to do in the event of a medical emergency during the pre-class briefing. I've been fortunate in that every class I've taken has had either a highly experienced ER doc or Paramedic taking the class along with us.

Of course, it could be one of them that gets shot...

So, when you teach do you have a plan adaptable to the range you are using?

Admittedly, this is a rare event.

But it could happen...

**JohnKSa** · May 30, 2011, 08:24 PM

I keep my CPR/First Aid certifications current and have a complete First Aid kit on hand. At the gun club, we make a point of encouraging our RSOs and even our members to be CPR/First Aid certified--to the point of scheduling classes for our members and partially reimbursing their classroom fees.

At remote ranges it's good to know what emergency services are available and/or should be expected to respond if called via cell phone. That assumes cell phone service is available. If it's not then you need to know the nearest emergency facilities and how to get there.

raimius · May 30, 2011, 08:40 PM

I recommend everyone have a good first aid kit available. I keep a "stop the bleeding" kit on my training vest, and have a fairly complete kit in my car. If you spend much time at shooting ranges, you should have some gear to stop/slow bleeding from a GSW, at least until you get get the person to professional medical care.

skifast · May 30, 2011, 10:25 PM

During the winter I am a ski patroller. Our training is comparable to a EMT-B, but with an emphasis of working outdoors, out of a vest or fanny pack. For those that don't know, patrollers administer first aid on the hill, transport to patient to the base of the hill, continue care in the aid room, package the patient to be transported out by ambulance or by their vehicle.

I get plenty of first aid experience during the winter.

Sefner · May 30, 2011, 10:27 PM

There is no reason not to. QuickClot kits are like $20 on Amazon. You pour it in the wound. No certification needed.

45Gunner · May 31, 2011, 01:24 AM

All my instructing is done at suburban indoor ranges with the exception of one, which is a well organized outdoor facility. I keep a first aid kit in my range bag and a fully charged cell phone. Each of the range facilities have first aid kits, defibrillator kits, and phone service.

If we run a class, a "game plan" is briefed to the class before we hit the range. If it is one on one instruction, the student is briefed on the emergency procedures just in case it is me that is need of emergency assistance.

docnyt · May 31, 2011, 06:05 AM

When I attended Tom Givens and southnarc's combined course, Tom outlined at the beginning where the nearest hospital is and asked the attendees if there were any with First Aid training. There were some of us with medical backgrounds and we were identified voluntarily.

Also when I joined a local range they also identified the nearest hospitals and how to get there, plus an emergency contact person from the range since there are no range officers.

Makes sense to have a contingency plan even if you're alone at the range. There's a QuikClot in the range bag and more of that plus a small First Aid kit in the car.

MadHatter1 · May 31, 2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

QuickClot kits are like $20 on Amazon. You pour it in the wound. No certification needed.

Don't think of quick clot as a cure all; it isn't. Depending on the type of product, it can cause severe burn that lead to infection. If its applied when a simple pressure dressing will do, you're not helping, you're making the injuries worse. Make sure you understand the supplies you have, and when and how to properly use them.

I wouldn't attend a training facility that wasn't properly prepared for an emergancy, and didn't brief the students on the plan.

gearhounds · May 31, 2011, 10:00 AM

My agency's vehicles are all equipped with quick clot kits, EMS bags trauma supplies including O2, and the range house has the lat and long coordinates posted for helo's to locate exactly where we are. I think all ranges should have the coordinates posted as well as a designated area for a helo to land if necessary.

locnload · May 31, 2011, 10:19 AM

I am trained as an EMT and always have a full trauma kit in my vehecle, often including O2. After 22+ years in the Fire Service I've learned to be prepared for bad stuff to happen at any time.

chadstrickland · May 31, 2011, 12:26 PM

Ok ok..im sorry..just if y'all are wondering what idiot picked the "what plan" thingy it was me...I didn't see the view poll results

...and im not a instructor

hanno · May 31, 2011, 12:40 PM

My trauma plan is simple. When I hold classes, I always have a registered nurse (who is also a certified instructor) with me. She put together the first aid kit I keep in my range tub.

I also wrote the SOP (including emergency procedures) for the range I use.

oldkim · May 31, 2011, 10:03 PM

Not a difficult thing to plan... Granted depends on your location of your range...

But as an instructor... it's called CALL 911!!!

Do note that I'm a combat medic, a Registered Nurse with ER, Trauma and Operating Room experience.

For any major event... it's the basics people overlook... Basic CPR... Basic - stop the bleeding (hold pressure).

Don't get too fancy with providing medical treatment... as for supplies and any medical care will just get you further into the "hole" from a legal standpoint. Meaning providing care beyond your scope of practice and your ability (competency).

BarryLee · May 31, 2011, 11:45 PM

I am not sure, but the Department of Labor / OSHA actually might require facilities to have plans to cover their employees. Obviously it is the ethical thing to do even if not required, but just an observation.

oldkim · June 1, 2011, 12:14 AM

http://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3317first-aid.pdf

Every instructor and firearm business is different. I don't have employees nor do I have a hard structure.

Not everyone will have access nor be a "trained" medical personnel. Some may play one on TV but legally you will be outside the Good Samaritan laws of the United State and your specific state.

The basics is "reasonable assistance" within your skill set. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

But again you need to look at your specific situation.

A plan is always good to have. Make it realistic and update your supplies on a regular basis along with the training...

ClydeFrog · June 1, 2011, 12:36 AM

Im not a firearms or tactics trainer/instructor but I would HIGHLY suggest any firearms or range instructor to have a few first aid & safety items on hand for range/class related events.
Public safety/supply industry company Galls has a lot of great first aid/emergency kits. See www.Galls.com .
Streichers; www.Policehq.com also has some good trauma medicine & first aid gear.
AED units, shock prevention, gun shot wound treatment & CPR equipment should all be standard.

In 2008, I had a minor but bloody cut on my left hand from a XD 9x19mm pistol on a security re-qual range. My class instructor quickly broke out his first aid bag & provided medical treatment.
I look at it as a liability & risk mgmt issue too.
ClydeFrog

skidmark · June 3, 2011, 05:21 AM

A short comment - the class where I felt safest was the one where the instructor had a blow-out kit and a general first aid kit, cell phone and the like, along with a laminated sheet with the address and lat/long coordinates for the location (ever wonder how Life Flight figures out where you are?), the direct phone numbers for Fire, Ambulance and Police as well as 9-1-1. All these were gone over in pre-class briefing, and a dedicated cellphone was placed with all of this stuff. A quick run-through of a simulated call for help was done so that folks have an idea of what to say rather than just dialing and yelling "Help!" at the dispatcher. He said he was toying with the idea of a written script with blanks to be filled in by the caller.

Students were given specific assignments (#1 controls bleeding, #2 goes and gets the blow-out/first aid kit, #3 makes the phone call, etc.).

All this added less than 2 minutes to the pre-class briefing.

stay safe.

View Poll Results: Instructors: do you have an emergency plan?
I have a trauma plan	11	61.11%
I have a basic plan	5	27.78%
I have some band-aids	1	5.56%
What plan?	1	5.56%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

May 30, 2011, 10:27 PM	#5
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	There is no reason not to. QuickClot kits are like $20 on Amazon. You pour it in the wound. No certification needed. __________________ gtalk:renfes steamID: Sefner

May 31, 2011, 01:24 AM	#6
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	All my instructing is done at suburban indoor ranges with the exception of one, which is a well organized outdoor facility. I keep a first aid kit in my range bag and a fully charged cell phone. Each of the range facilities have first aid kits, defibrillator kits, and phone service. If we run a class, a "game plan" is briefed to the class before we hit the range. If it is one on one instruction, the student is briefed on the emergency procedures just in case it is me that is need of emergency assistance. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

May 31, 2011, 10:00 AM	#9
gearhounds Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Location: M'burg WV Posts: 332	My agency's vehicles are all equipped with quick clot kits, EMS bags trauma supplies including O2, and the range house has the lat and long coordinates posted for helo's to locate exactly where we are. I think all ranges should have the coordinates posted as well as a designated area for a helo to land if necessary. __________________ Busting thugs since 1992

May 31, 2011, 12:26 PM	#11
chadstrickland Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 537	Ok ok..im sorry..just if y'all are wondering what idiot picked the "what plan" thingy it was me...I didn't see the view poll results ...and im not a instructor __________________ Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..

May 30, 2011, 02:58 PM	#1
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	Instructors: Emergency Medical Plans? Based off this thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451845 Those of you who instruct, do you have a plan in case of an accidental shooting? Heart Attack/Stroke? Consider that many ranges used for training are remote or semi-remote. Students: is this a consideration for you when taking classes? Or have you ever even given it a thought? All the pro classes I've taken, we were given instructions on what to do in the event of a medical emergency during the pre-class briefing. I've been fortunate in that every class I've taken has had either a highly experienced ER doc or Paramedic taking the class along with us. Of course, it could be one of them that gets shot... So, when you teach do you have a plan adaptable to the range you are using? Admittedly, this is a rare event. But it could happen...

May 30, 2011, 08:24 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,986	I keep my CPR/First Aid certifications current and have a complete First Aid kit on hand. At the gun club, we make a point of encouraging our RSOs and even our members to be CPR/First Aid certified--to the point of scheduling classes for our members and partially reimbursing their classroom fees. At remote ranges it's good to know what emergency services are available and/or should be expected to respond if called via cell phone. That assumes cell phone service is available. If it's not then you need to know the nearest emergency facilities and how to get there. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

May 30, 2011, 08:40 PM	#3
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	I recommend everyone have a good first aid kit available. I keep a "stop the bleeding" kit on my training vest, and have a fairly complete kit in my car. If you spend much time at shooting ranges, you should have some gear to stop/slow bleeding from a GSW, at least until you get get the person to professional medical care.

May 30, 2011, 10:25 PM	#4
skifast Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Posts: 227	During the winter I am a ski patroller. Our training is comparable to a EMT-B, but with an emphasis of working outdoors, out of a vest or fanny pack. For those that don't know, patrollers administer first aid on the hill, transport to patient to the base of the hill, continue care in the aid room, package the patient to be transported out by ambulance or by their vehicle. I get plenty of first aid experience during the winter.

May 31, 2011, 06:05 AM	#7
docnyt Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2011 Location: HeArT of DiXiE Posts: 154	When I attended Tom Givens and southnarc's combined course, Tom outlined at the beginning where the nearest hospital is and asked the attendees if there were any with First Aid training. There were some of us with medical backgrounds and we were identified voluntarily. Also when I joined a local range they also identified the nearest hospitals and how to get there, plus an emergency contact person from the range since there are no range officers. Makes sense to have a contingency plan even if you're alone at the range. There's a QuikClot in the range bag and more of that plus a small First Aid kit in the car.

May 31, 2011, 10:19 AM	#10
locnload Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2010 Location: Northern Colorado Posts: 118	I am trained as an EMT and always have a full trauma kit in my vehecle, often including O2. After 22+ years in the Fire Service I've learned to be prepared for bad stuff to happen at any time.

May 31, 2011, 12:40 PM	#12
hanno Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 394	My trauma plan is simple. When I hold classes, I always have a registered nurse (who is also a certified instructor) with me. She put together the first aid kit I keep in my range tub. I also wrote the SOP (including emergency procedures) for the range I use. Last edited by hanno; May 31, 2011 at 12:48 PM.

May 31, 2011, 10:03 PM	#13
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	Keep it simple... Not a difficult thing to plan... Granted depends on your location of your range... But as an instructor... it's called CALL 911!!! Do note that I'm a combat medic, a Registered Nurse with ER, Trauma and Operating Room experience. For any major event... it's the basics people overlook... Basic CPR... Basic - stop the bleeding (hold pressure). Don't get too fancy with providing medical treatment... as for supplies and any medical care will just get you further into the "hole" from a legal standpoint. Meaning providing care beyond your scope of practice and your ability (competency). __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

May 31, 2011, 11:45 PM	#14
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I am not sure, but the Department of Labor / OSHA actually might require facilities to have plans to cover their employees. Obviously it is the ethical thing to do even if not required, but just an observation. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

June 1, 2011, 12:14 AM	#15
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	one must keep in mind... http://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3317first-aid.pdf Every instructor and firearm business is different. I don't have employees nor do I have a hard structure. Not everyone will have access nor be a "trained" medical personnel. Some may play one on TV but legally you will be outside the Good Samaritan laws of the United State and your specific state. The basics is "reasonable assistance" within your skill set. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law But again you need to look at your specific situation. A plan is always good to have. Make it realistic and update your supplies on a regular basis along with the training... __________________ "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport." Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA Check out my new website: www.shootonthemove.org

June 1, 2011, 12:36 AM	#16
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	First Responder; first aid kits; Galls.com PoliceHQ.com... Im not a firearms or tactics trainer/instructor but I would HIGHLY suggest any firearms or range instructor to have a few first aid & safety items on hand for range/class related events. Public safety/supply industry company Galls has a lot of great first aid/emergency kits. See www.Galls.com . Streichers; www.Policehq.com also has some good trauma medicine & first aid gear. AED units, shock prevention, gun shot wound treatment & CPR equipment should all be standard. In 2008, I had a minor but bloody cut on my left hand from a XD 9x19mm pistol on a security re-qual range. My class instructor quickly broke out his first aid bag & provided medical treatment. I look at it as a liability & risk mgmt issue too. ClydeFrog

June 3, 2011, 05:21 AM	#17
skidmark Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2005 Location: Richmond VA - home of a street full of second-place trophies. Posts: 151	A short comment - the class where I felt safest was the one where the instructor had a blow-out kit and a general first aid kit, cell phone and the like, along with a laminated sheet with the address and lat/long coordinates for the location (ever wonder how Life Flight figures out where you are?), the direct phone numbers for Fire, Ambulance and Police as well as 9-1-1. All these were gone over in pre-class briefing, and a dedicated cellphone was placed with all of this stuff. A quick run-through of a simulated call for help was done so that folks have an idea of what to say rather than just dialing and yelling "Help!" at the dispatcher. He said he was toying with the idea of a written script with blanks to be filled in by the caller. Students were given specific assignments (#1 controls bleeding, #2 goes and gets the blow-out/first aid kit, #3 makes the phone call, etc.). All this added less than 2 minutes to the pre-class briefing. stay safe.