Why aren't 308 "AR-15's" very popular? - Page 2

gonzoo75 · December 18, 2011, 07:26 PM

Well I geuss it come down to personal prefrence. I have a Ar-15 and Ar-10 in 308. It is a platform iI got very comfortable with in the Marines. I hunt with both depending on the terrain. I catch alot of flak for hunting with a ar- 15. I have dropped just as many deer with on shot with the 15 and the 10, as the guy with his grandpas 30-06. Around here though after opening morning it is very uncommon to see a deer that is not running full tilt. I have not had to walk my rounds in from the deers ass to the vitals. Most of us mall ninjas actually take the time to go to the range and practice. One shot one kill. I have seen a few men and woman lay rounds down and never touch the deer. Most were using your standard semi auto with the ocassional sks. I think it comes down to what you are comfortable with. Most don't see the ar's as a suitable hunting rifle. Cause its not what grandpa used.

sailskidrive · December 18, 2011, 07:30 PM

>>If I ever acquire a 6.8 upper, I could see using an AR to hunt.

MikeLeake, OR maybe the new .300 Blackout if under 200 yards...

5RWill · December 18, 2011, 07:32 PM

I dropped a doe with my 18" SPR @ 120yds give or take. With a 77smk she didn't move.

MLeake · December 18, 2011, 07:33 PM

Not Mike...

Anyway, new acquisitions on hold - buying a horse farm.

Once the dust settles from that, I will see if I feel like spending anything on rifle parts.

Meanwhile, may just use my T/C Hawken. I kind of like the juxtaposition of percussion muzzle-loader opposite AR for hunting weapon alternatives.

JHansenAK47 · December 18, 2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

223 semis are fun for varmints but still, unnecessary.

I don't care if a coyote gets shot 9 times and splattered everywhere. Also when I go jack rabbit hunting I like having follow up shots when shooting at a target zigging and zagging through sage brush.
When I big game hunt I might pass on shots that if it was a coyote I would probably just take. I wouldn't shoot a deer up the rump but a coyote would get a lead aenema.

brmfan · December 18, 2011, 08:26 PM

If I hadn't gotten a deal on my POF I'd probably stick with 5.56 AR's. That said, it has been one of the most reliable and accurate rifles I've ever fired. Is it impractical for anything but having fun at the range? Maybe. But If I ever needed to pull out a can of whoopazz (think 168 TAPs) then that is what I'd grab.

checkmyswag · December 18, 2011, 08:27 PM

I'm fine with 20 round mags.

Re: what a hunting rifle "should look like"...I don't have any issues w that one way or the other.

I try to not throw around "mall ninja" or "tacticool". If you've got preferences different than mine, cool.

I'm looking at a 308 AR with iron sights that can be removed/collapsed for mounting a scope. That's about it. I see some with lights on them, may consider that. That would be about it.

Comparing these rifles to large flat pieces of lumber...unfortunately, I do 100% understand that remark.

I tried everything I could to stay away from the AR...yet here I am.

230therapy · December 18, 2011, 09:18 PM

They are not popular because good ones run $2300+. You can acquire a DPMS for as little as $1,100, but you're going to have to work on it.

(I just went through this process)

checkmyswag · December 18, 2011, 09:22 PM

I can't/won't do $2000 plus.

Looking at the Bushmaster/Armalite/RRA for $1000-$1500.

alloy · December 18, 2011, 09:29 PM

Kinda like the Armalite, to each his own no doubt.

LSnSC · December 18, 2011, 09:36 PM

They're more expensive to operate and upgrade, heavier, have more recoil and muzzle blast.
You can hunt with one but its wouldnt be my first choice. I built a 6.8 SPCII and it is a better option for hunting deer sized game IMO.

ak2323 · December 18, 2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

I don't care if a coyote gets shot 9 times and splattered everywhere. Also when I go jack rabbit hunting I like having follow up shots when shooting at a target zigging and zagging through sage brush.

Why not get some training instead?

RLFD5415 · December 18, 2011, 10:17 PM

I think it is a matter of perspective and the type of shooting you do. The LR308/AR-10 class is very popular amongst the long range precision crowd. I currently own 5.

bejay · December 18, 2011, 11:06 PM

really think its probably the price tag alot to spend on a rifle, the fact there is a couple different types really doesnt help things either, if it was as standard as an ar15 parts would probably be alot easier to come by.
im sure many would like to have one but at that price its not worth it.

amprecon · December 19, 2011, 01:28 AM

I feel that a .308 should have at least a 20" barrel, and to get the most from the .308 cartridge it should be scoped.

I went the .308 AR route thinking it would make sense to have two rifles with the same build and operating system.

For hunting you usually only take one shot at a time and weight is of the essence when trekking over hill and dale.

For SHTF and EOTWAWKI, and hunting I have an AK and a 6.8spc AR rifle, I wouldn't grab the .308 AR in any emergency-type defend-your-life scenarios, or for hunting for that matter as its just so big and bulky and heavy.

I do plan to get rid of my LAR-8 when I return home and just buy a .308 bolt-action and scope it.

5RWill · December 19, 2011, 01:35 AM

As i said i'll eventually have one for sure. But one thing i do not like about ARs which is just part of it, is throwing brass. For both my 5.56 ARs i couldn't bring myself to load for them. When i reload it's a very slow process when i get to measure powder. And for a weapon that i might fire 20 shots with each sitting it just doesn't work with me. Although i can't see that being as big of a deal with the .308 AR as i doubt i'd fire that much. Probably ill end up reloading for it though. Honestly can't wait to get one. Heavy doesn't bother me. I live in the delta so i can't speak for those hiking mountains on hunts. But both my SPR and 700 are decently heavy and only going to get heavier.

trg42wraglefragle · December 19, 2011, 03:47 AM

Quote:
I don't care if a coyote gets shot 9 times and splattered everywhere. Also when I go jack rabbit hunting I like having follow up shots when shooting at a target zigging and zagging through sage brush.

Why not get some training instead?

What's this supposed to mean?
If you can hit a rabbit running and jumping full tit though long grass on your first shot every time without a shotgun, then you are probably lying.
At least that's the case with the 100s of rabbits I've seen.

madcratebuilder · December 19, 2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Why aren't 308 "AR-15's" very popular?

No such thing as a .308 AR15. You have the AR10, made by ArmaLite, in 7.62, the N6 made by Noveske in 7.62. The DPMS LR-308 in .308, The LMT MWS in 7.62, the new CMMG in .308 as I recall. Many others make a 7.62/.308 AR platform rifle.

Quote:

When I have looked at them, you are stuck using proprietary parts which are hideously expensive.

The uppers/lowers are propitiatory with three main designs, a few small parts like the barrel nut, bolt catch and mag release may be propitiatory or may be standard AR15, depends on maker. Most aftermarket hand guard makers offer barrel nuts for any style. The RE's are a standard size.

Quote:

It has been a while, but magazine cost was ridiculous and magazine don’t interchange, and that was just the start of the thing. Bushmaster was making a rifle that took FN mags, a great idea, but they took it off the market.

Pmags are $20 and ArmaLite mags are $25-28.

ArmaLite and Noveske are running at full production to keep up with demand. I see new owners everyday on the .308/7.62 AR forums. They well never sell in the numbers that the AR15 sells in, they cost twice as much to buy and to shoot.

The 16" Infantry profile Carbines from ArmaLite are fairly light at just under 8lbs. That's lighter than many decked out AR15's I see.

The accuracy from my 21" Noveske N6 rivals any bolt gun in the same caliber.

The DPMS LR-308 is popular because of it's low price and cheap Pmags. The new CMMG .308 is a bargain at it's $1500 price, PRS, floated hand guard, match grade barrel, two stage trigger.

tirod · December 19, 2011, 12:15 PM

Well, apples and oranges again. A .308 will be no less than a pound and a half more weight when both are equally decked out. If the AR15 weighs 9.5 tricked out, the AR10 will be 11 pounds. It's just bigger.

That's exactly why the Army dropped it - double the recoil, half the ammo, big heavy gun. In the day, patrols didn't go out in full battle rattle. No armor, maybe not even a helmet, ammo and water only. All the glamor shots of .308 main battle rifle carriers showed a lot more trimming down over the years, as the fighting was deescalated to guerilla warfare. So, the .308 was able to hang on, because the soldiers could dump institutional gear. And, guess what - no AR10's.

They never made it much in prime time, the FNFAL, G3,and M14 were the major players. No press coverage means it's only been recently that shooters are even considering them, and that's because of Afghanistan. Even so, consider the ratio - 100,000 M16's and M4's, vs. 5,000 rekitted M14's, and a few exotic AR10's in special units. And the SCAR Heavy.

What we're seeing is actually the heyday of the AR10's, and not being on a standard milspec chassis doesn't affect it much at the prices. It's a dedicated gun, like a piston AR. The shooter knows about the single source parts, mag issues, etc. He has the money to ignore it.

In a crowd of lever guns, the Browning BAR sticks out by being the only one in the county. Same for the AR10.

Poodleshooter · December 19, 2011, 01:20 PM

I can only say why I don't have one; basically giving my opinion.
They cost (and weigh) too much for what they deliver and what I need.
My uses for .308 don't usually involve multiple quick shots, so much of the advantage is wasted for me.
For the cost of a low end .308 AR, I can set up a .308 Rem 700 Tactical rig that likely is quite a bit more accurate than the average entry level .308 AR, and probably even weighs less.
I just don't need a huge semi-auto .308. When they figure out how to make one similar in size to a Remington Model 7, for a similar cost, or when they can make one that weighs 9#,costs $800 and shoots as well as a Remington SPS tactical sitting in a B&C Medalist or HS Precision stock, then I might be interested.

velocette · December 19, 2011, 01:59 PM

I've had my DPMS LR 308B (18" bull barrel) for a bit over 5 years. Now over 2000 rds downrange. No failures, no jams, no problems.
Accuracy is consistently sub moa with some factory ammo and my handloads. The worst factory ammo was just under 2". Magazines are available and run about $20.00 if you shop well.
The mags are made by DPMS, C products and others.
As far as major parts are concerned, if you buy a Winchester or Remington rifle, why would you want major parts made by another company? Sights, stocks, handgrips, front grips, trigger groups etc are readily available from the aftermarket in all shapes, types and colors. Barrels are available from several manufacturers.
Finally, with respect, if you cannot get the job done with 20 rds of 308 & a fast reload, you perhaps should move to an area with fewer zombies.

Roger

warbirdlover · December 19, 2011, 04:49 PM

If Hillary Clinton read this thread she'd keel over from a heart attack!!

Marquezj16 · December 19, 2011, 07:23 PM

All this talk has me searching/wanting a RRA LAR 8 Standard A4. They are going for around $1K at CTD.

Manufacturer: Rock River Arms, Inc. 308A1288
Item: 2-RRA308A1288

Specifications and Features:
Rock River Arms LAR-8 Standard A4 semi automatic rifle
.308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO
20" chrome moly barrel
Barrel is Cryogenically Treated and Bead blasted
Railed gas block
20 Round Capacity
Accepts FN FAL magazines, both inch and metric patterns
2 Stage Trigger
Hogue Rubber Pistol Grip
A2 Buttstock
9.0 lbs
42" Overall length
Black

Not as expensive as I thought they were.

I have to wait but this is close to the top of my want list.

5RWill · December 19, 2011, 07:44 PM

They can be had for less. But i have a special reserve and want for a M110 original or built.

Gehrhard · December 19, 2011, 08:26 PM

It isn't that the .308 isn't more popular, it is that the .223 is so popular. It is just such a sweet round and rifle combination. Yeah, I know there are limits...

As for most people not knowing about their choice of an AR? I disagree.

December 18, 2011, 07:30 PM	#27
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	>>If I ever acquire a 6.8 upper, I could see using an AR to hunt. MikeLeake, OR maybe the new .300 Blackout if under 200 yards... __________________ SailSkiDrive Hk USP 45 Expert, USP 40, USP 9, SIG P226, S&W M&P9, Hk 4, Makarov, Desert Eagle 40, Beretta FS92 Centurion, Kimber TLEII 1911A1, Glock 22, SIG P225, 1943 Rem Rand 1911A1, S&W mod 64, Walther PPQ, SIG P229, Browning BDA 45 (SIG P220), Hk45, SIG P230

December 18, 2011, 07:32 PM	#28
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	I dropped a doe with my 18" SPR @ 120yds give or take. With a 77smk she didn't move. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

December 18, 2011, 09:18 PM	#33
230therapy Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2008 Posts: 116	They are not popular because good ones run $2300+. You can acquire a DPMS for as little as $1,100, but you're going to have to work on it. (I just went through this process) __________________ Does anyone actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

December 19, 2011, 01:28 AM	#40
amprecon Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 1999 Location: TN Posts: 786	I feel that a .308 should have at least a 20" barrel, and to get the most from the .308 cartridge it should be scoped. I went the .308 AR route thinking it would make sense to have two rifles with the same build and operating system. For hunting you usually only take one shot at a time and weight is of the essence when trekking over hill and dale. For SHTF and EOTWAWKI, and hunting I have an AK and a 6.8spc AR rifle, I wouldn't grab the .308 AR in any emergency-type defend-your-life scenarios, or for hunting for that matter as its just so big and bulky and heavy. I do plan to get rid of my LAR-8 when I return home and just buy a .308 bolt-action and scope it. __________________ "You can't get 'em all Josey." "That's a fact". "Well how come you doin' this then?" "Cause I got nothin' better to do."

December 19, 2011, 01:35 AM	#41
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	As i said i'll eventually have one for sure. But one thing i do not like about ARs which is just part of it, is throwing brass. For both my 5.56 ARs i couldn't bring myself to load for them. When i reload it's a very slow process when i get to measure powder. And for a weapon that i might fire 20 shots with each sitting it just doesn't work with me. Although i can't see that being as big of a deal with the .308 AR as i doubt i'd fire that much. Probably ill end up reloading for it though. Honestly can't wait to get one. Heavy doesn't bother me. I live in the delta so i can't speak for those hiking mountains on hunts. But both my SPR and 700 are decently heavy and only going to get heavier. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

December 18, 2011, 07:26 PM	#26
gonzoo75 Member Join Date: July 16, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 19	Well I geuss it come down to personal prefrence. I have a Ar-15 and Ar-10 in 308. It is a platform iI got very comfortable with in the Marines. I hunt with both depending on the terrain. I catch alot of flak for hunting with a ar- 15. I have dropped just as many deer with on shot with the 15 and the 10, as the guy with his grandpas 30-06. Around here though after opening morning it is very uncommon to see a deer that is not running full tilt. I have not had to walk my rounds in from the deers ass to the vitals. Most of us mall ninjas actually take the time to go to the range and practice. One shot one kill. I have seen a few men and woman lay rounds down and never touch the deer. Most were using your standard semi auto with the ocassional sks. I think it comes down to what you are comfortable with. Most don't see the ar's as a suitable hunting rifle. Cause its not what grandpa used.

December 18, 2011, 07:33 PM	#29
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Not Mike... Anyway, new acquisitions on hold - buying a horse farm. Once the dust settles from that, I will see if I feel like spending anything on rifle parts. Meanwhile, may just use my T/C Hawken. I kind of like the juxtaposition of percussion muzzle-loader opposite AR for hunting weapon alternatives.

December 18, 2011, 08:26 PM	#31
brmfan Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2008 Posts: 557	If I hadn't gotten a deal on my POF I'd probably stick with 5.56 AR's. That said, it has been one of the most reliable and accurate rifles I've ever fired. Is it impractical for anything but having fun at the range? Maybe. But If I ever needed to pull out a can of whoopazz (think 168 TAPs) then that is what I'd grab.

December 18, 2011, 08:27 PM	#32
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	I'm fine with 20 round mags. Re: what a hunting rifle "should look like"...I don't have any issues w that one way or the other. I try to not throw around "mall ninja" or "tacticool". If you've got preferences different than mine, cool. I'm looking at a 308 AR with iron sights that can be removed/collapsed for mounting a scope. That's about it. I see some with lights on them, may consider that. That would be about it. Comparing these rifles to large flat pieces of lumber...unfortunately, I do 100% understand that remark. I tried everything I could to stay away from the AR...yet here I am.

December 18, 2011, 09:22 PM	#34
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	I can't/won't do $2000 plus. Looking at the Bushmaster/Armalite/RRA for $1000-$1500.

December 18, 2011, 09:36 PM	#36
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	They're more expensive to operate and upgrade, heavier, have more recoil and muzzle blast. You can hunt with one but its wouldnt be my first choice. I built a 6.8 SPCII and it is a better option for hunting deer sized game IMO.

December 18, 2011, 10:17 PM	#38
RLFD5415 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 129	I think it is a matter of perspective and the type of shooting you do. The LR308/AR-10 class is very popular amongst the long range precision crowd. I currently own 5.

December 18, 2011, 11:06 PM	#39
bejay Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2008 Posts: 195	really think its probably the price tag alot to spend on a rifle, the fact there is a couple different types really doesnt help things either, if it was as standard as an ar15 parts would probably be alot easier to come by. im sure many would like to have one but at that price its not worth it.

December 19, 2011, 03:47 AM	#42
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	Quote: I don't care if a coyote gets shot 9 times and splattered everywhere. Also when I go jack rabbit hunting I like having follow up shots when shooting at a target zigging and zagging through sage brush. Why not get some training instead? What's this supposed to mean? If you can hit a rabbit running and jumping full tit though long grass on your first shot every time without a shotgun, then you are probably lying. At least that's the case with the 100s of rabbits I've seen.

December 19, 2011, 12:15 PM	#44
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	Well, apples and oranges again. A .308 will be no less than a pound and a half more weight when both are equally decked out. If the AR15 weighs 9.5 tricked out, the AR10 will be 11 pounds. It's just bigger. That's exactly why the Army dropped it - double the recoil, half the ammo, big heavy gun. In the day, patrols didn't go out in full battle rattle. No armor, maybe not even a helmet, ammo and water only. All the glamor shots of .308 main battle rifle carriers showed a lot more trimming down over the years, as the fighting was deescalated to guerilla warfare. So, the .308 was able to hang on, because the soldiers could dump institutional gear. And, guess what - no AR10's. They never made it much in prime time, the FNFAL, G3,and M14 were the major players. No press coverage means it's only been recently that shooters are even considering them, and that's because of Afghanistan. Even so, consider the ratio - 100,000 M16's and M4's, vs. 5,000 rekitted M14's, and a few exotic AR10's in special units. And the SCAR Heavy. What we're seeing is actually the heyday of the AR10's, and not being on a standard milspec chassis doesn't affect it much at the prices. It's a dedicated gun, like a piston AR. The shooter knows about the single source parts, mag issues, etc. He has the money to ignore it. In a crowd of lever guns, the Browning BAR sticks out by being the only one in the county. Same for the AR10.

December 19, 2011, 01:20 PM	#45
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	I can only say why I don't have one; basically giving my opinion. They cost (and weigh) too much for what they deliver and what I need. My uses for .308 don't usually involve multiple quick shots, so much of the advantage is wasted for me. For the cost of a low end .308 AR, I can set up a .308 Rem 700 Tactical rig that likely is quite a bit more accurate than the average entry level .308 AR, and probably even weighs less. I just don't need a huge semi-auto .308. When they figure out how to make one similar in size to a Remington Model 7, for a similar cost, or when they can make one that weighs 9#,costs $800 and shoots as well as a Remington SPS tactical sitting in a B&C Medalist or HS Precision stock, then I might be interested.

December 19, 2011, 01:59 PM	#46
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	I've had my DPMS LR 308B (18" bull barrel) for a bit over 5 years. Now over 2000 rds downrange. No failures, no jams, no problems. Accuracy is consistently sub moa with some factory ammo and my handloads. The worst factory ammo was just under 2". Magazines are available and run about $20.00 if you shop well. The mags are made by DPMS, C products and others. As far as major parts are concerned, if you buy a Winchester or Remington rifle, why would you want major parts made by another company? Sights, stocks, handgrips, front grips, trigger groups etc are readily available from the aftermarket in all shapes, types and colors. Barrels are available from several manufacturers. Finally, with respect, if you cannot get the job done with 20 rds of 308 & a fast reload, you perhaps should move to an area with fewer zombies. Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

December 19, 2011, 04:49 PM	#47
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	If Hillary Clinton read this thread she'd keel over from a heart attack!!

December 19, 2011, 07:23 PM	#48
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	All this talk has me searching/wanting a RRA LAR 8 Standard A4. They are going for around $1K at CTD. Manufacturer: Rock River Arms, Inc. 308A1288 Item: 2-RRA308A1288 Specifications and Features: Rock River Arms LAR-8 Standard A4 semi automatic rifle .308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO 20" chrome moly barrel Barrel is Cryogenically Treated and Bead blasted Railed gas block 20 Round Capacity Accepts FN FAL magazines, both inch and metric patterns 2 Stage Trigger Hogue Rubber Pistol Grip A2 Buttstock 9.0 lbs 42" Overall length Black Not as expensive as I thought they were. I have to wait but this is close to the top of my want list.

December 19, 2011, 07:44 PM	#49
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	They can be had for less. But i have a special reserve and want for a M110 original or built. __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me."

December 19, 2011, 08:26 PM	#50
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	Wrong Question! It isn't that the .308 isn't more popular, it is that the .223 is so popular. It is just such a sweet round and rifle combination. Yeah, I know there are limits... As for most people not knowing about their choice of an AR? I disagree.