Deputy shoots airman after 100-mph chase - Page 2

choochboost · February 1, 2006, 07:02 PM

The victim carried his MP ID with him at all times. It has been suggested that he reached for his ID but I could not determine that from the video. If it is true, it goes along with the reports that he was trying to convince the deputy that he was MP. But also you have to assume that he knew better than to reach for ID with a gun pointed at him.

DavidJBlythe · February 1, 2006, 07:25 PM

Was the police officer yelling "shut up!" to the MP as he was screaming in pain?

choochboost · February 1, 2006, 07:27 PM

I believe so. He actually wouldn't shut up...the deputy I mean.

cochise · February 1, 2006, 07:37 PM

One thing for sure, ..................
this is a sad story, regardless of who is at fault.

1inthechamber · February 1, 2006, 07:38 PM

I saw the video on CNN earlier on TV.
You can hear the deputy saying 'get up' (as I recall), followed by the shooting. You can clearly hear the deputy cussing at him.

I hope the deputy gets canned. The way he handled it is ridiculous even if there was a chase, he wasn't going anywhere, he was on the ground.

Wildcard · February 1, 2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

I hope the deputy gets canned

I hope he, the deputy, is tried, convicted of attemtped murder and jailed for a very long time.

1inthechamber · February 1, 2006, 07:48 PM

Poor soldier... goes to Iraq, comes home safely and this happens. If he sues (and I hope he does), he could probably retire.

choochboost · February 1, 2006, 07:55 PM

The MP was trying to calm the deputy down prior to the shooting. After the deputy tells the MP to get up, the MP says, "Ok, I'm getting up now." Its almost as if he's bewildered at what the deputy is telling him to do, but is willing to follow instructions even to the point of repeating the instructions back to the him.

This reminds me of a surgeon I once knew. Too emotional to be professional and do his job right.

BerettaCougar · February 1, 2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

The MP was trying to calm the deputy down prior to the shooting. After the deputy tells the MP him to get up, the MP says, "Ok, I'm getting up." Its almost as if he's bewildered at what the deputy is telling him to do, but is willing to follow instructions even to the point of repeating the instructions back to the him.

This reminds me of a surgeon I once knew. Too emotional to be professional and do his job right.

Correct Chooch, seems like the MP thought the command to get up was stupid, him being a Police officer as well probably knew it wasnt common practice for a felony stop to be told to get up without having cuffs on....

Helmetcase · February 1, 2006, 08:25 PM

I'll be happy to toast this airman when he receives his settlement; I hope he enjoys it drinking Dos Equis in Cabo San Lucas and spending it on attractive young women the rest of his days.

I'd pay money to see some more videotape of this officer; this time, seeing how much fun he has in prison when word gets around the genpop that he was the guy who told an unarmed man to get up and then shot him for getting up.

PS: if you're trolling the forum just to start pointless arguments by suggesting that the video shows anything but exactly what it shows, I sincerely hope (ahem Sir William cough cough) the moderators dispense with you promptly. You've got to be kidding.

**tyme** · February 1, 2006, 08:53 PM

Why is the video from traffic stops always so poor? Is it like that on tape, or are the web videos like that because they're severely compressed from the original? Why don't they use digital video? Of course video isn't going to be dvd quality, but it could be better than it is.

Even without buying new video equipment, they could mount a microphone in the grille of each cruiser so that at least the audio from incidents is reasonably clear and accurate.

Helmetcase · February 1, 2006, 08:59 PM

Tyme,
Whattya want to bet there's an in car from the deputy's cruiser that simply hasn't been released yet?

Or maybe if the officer had one of those rolling he wouldn't have behaved in such a manner.

Capt. Charlie · February 1, 2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Why is the video from traffic stops always so poor? Is it like that on tape, or are the web videos like that because they're severely compressed from the original? Why don't they use digital video?

I don't think that was video from a VICS tape; I think someone else was shooting that. I watched the original on CNN several times today, and it isn't much better, mostly due to poor lighting. The digital systems are much better, but they're still relatively new, and very expensive.

Quote:

Even without buying new video equipment, they could mount a microphone in the grille of each cruiser so that at least the audio from incidents is reasonably clear and accurate.

All of the commercial VICS systems that I'm aware of has a belt mounted, wireless mic that has to be turned on by the officer. Here, failure to activate the mic during an incident is grounds for disciplinary action. I didn't follow the link here, but the CNN version does have fairly clear sound.

Capt. Charlie · February 1, 2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

I hope he, the deputy, is tried, convicted of attemtped murder and jailed for a very long time.

Wildcard, if things truly are as they seem, we finally have something in common

.

choochboost · February 1, 2006, 09:30 PM

The video was shot by a neighbor who came out when the corvette crashed. He voluntarily gave the footage to investigators then sold it to the media.

Quote:
"Whattya want to bet there's an in car from the deputy's cruiser that simply hasn't been released yet?"

Helmetcase, I think you might be right.

Quote:
"Or maybe if the officer had one of those rolling he wouldn't have behaved in such a manner."

Yes he would have. He wasn't trying to get away with anything, he was trying to do his job...just very poorly.

choochboost · February 1, 2006, 09:58 PM

As stated above, some have suggested the MP was shot while reaching for his ID. I have just seen an enhanced version of the tape and there is no way that is the case. While still on the ground, the MP can be seen talking to the deputy, saying he has served more time in LE than the deputy...his right hand appears near his chest area as if to reach to an inside pocket (presumably to get ID)...the deputy tells him to get up...the MP follows the instructions by placing BOTH hands on the ground to push himself up...it is only at that time, as the MP rises, that he is shot.

Wildcard · February 1, 2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Wildcard, if things truly are as they seem, we finally have something in common

Glad to see we have found common ground. Salute to ya, CPT.

osufanboy · February 1, 2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

As the deputy was yelling at the guy after shooting him, he was saying something about the guy trying to come at him.

That was the most disturbing part. He lied and tried to cover it up. What do you think the odds are that if someone wasn't taping it he'd end up being a hero for stopping an "assult"?

riverrat66 · February 1, 2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Optical Serenity sez: You don't want to ruin someone's financial status just because you investigate them. Remember, innocent till proven guilty?

What about Airman Elio Carrion? Isn't he innocent til proven guilty? Lets remember the only thing the airman did was to get into the car with the wrong person. He was almost tried, convicted and executed by this out of control cop. If the shooter would have been anyone other then a cop he would be behind bars not on paid administrative leave!

Quote:

osufanboy sez: What do you think the odds are that if someone wasn't taping it he'd end up being a hero for stopping an "assault"?

Isn't that the truth. Without the video they'd be pinning a medal on this bad cop tomorrow!

Quote:

Sir William sez: Good shoot. I saw 0 problems with the shooting.

You sir have got to be kidding! I'd bet you'd change your tune if that was your child lying on the ground being shot for no apparent reason.

buckster · February 2, 2006, 12:18 AM

Did he tell him to get up so he could shoot him? He didn't taser him first. Is that proper procedure? Obviously, that person should not be a cop. Maybe if he would of used both hands to get up. Unfortunately that person probably served his country too. When they come back to civilian life and become cops they just aren't debriefed properly. Cameras should be standard equipment on all cars. I'm going to go buy a camera and start taping them for a change!

Wildcard · February 2, 2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Maybe if he would of used both hands to get up

Looked like he did use both hands.

stratus · February 2, 2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir William

I saw 0 problems with the shooting.

Get your eyes checked.

choochboost · February 2, 2006, 01:20 AM

osufanboy, I don't think he was trying to cover it up by yelling at him and making comments about the MP coming at him...I honestly believe he felt he was justified at the moment and was trying to rub it in as the MP lay there bleeding. You can tell from his tone that he was mocking him...not justifying his actions IMO.

buckster, I may be wrong but I don't believe San Bernardino Sheriffs carry tasers.

Sir William · February 2, 2006, 01:35 AM

Three points. Point one. The AP is a criminal actor. Point two. If anyone had been killed during his criminal actions, he would have been charged with murder. Point Three. Stupidity should hurt. I fail to see any problem with the shooting. I feel that gang ties will be exposed and that alcohol or drugs were involved. The investigation will bring everything to the light of day, no CYA. The fact remains, a criminal was shot. The 21 y/o Senior Airman was in the wrong place with the wrong people and doing the wrong thing, he is not innocent, not a victim and not a heroic role model. Stupidity should hurt.

choochboost · February 2, 2006, 01:57 AM

Wow!

Sir William, I thought that you'd be backpedaling by the time you posted again. I guess not. You made some good points and observations...but maybe you could find some time to check out the footage the rest of us are looking at. You're obviously not looking at the same video we are. Ok, let's just say he's a violent gang-banger, or even worse...big deal...tell me what he did to warrant getting shot! You said, "The fact remains, a criminal was shot." Are you crazy?

I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from.

February 1, 2006, 07:37 PM	#29
cochise Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 299	One thing for sure, .................. this is a sad story, regardless of who is at fault. __________________ Jim

February 1, 2006, 08:25 PM	#35
Helmetcase Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 90	I'll be happy to toast this airman when he receives his settlement; I hope he enjoys it drinking Dos Equis in Cabo San Lucas and spending it on attractive young women the rest of his days. I'd pay money to see some more videotape of this officer; this time, seeing how much fun he has in prison when word gets around the genpop that he was the guy who told an unarmed man to get up and then shot him for getting up. PS: if you're trolling the forum just to start pointless arguments by suggesting that the video shows anything but exactly what it shows, I sincerely hope (ahem Sir William cough cough) the moderators dispense with you promptly. You've got to be kidding. __________________ ProGun Progressive!

February 1, 2006, 08:53 PM	#36
tyme Staff Join Date: October 13, 2001 Posts: 3,355	Why is the video from traffic stops always so poor? Is it like that on tape, or are the web videos like that because they're severely compressed from the original? Why don't they use digital video? Of course video isn't going to be dvd quality, but it could be better than it is. Even without buying new video equipment, they could mount a microphone in the grille of each cruiser so that at least the audio from incidents is reasonably clear and accurate. __________________ “The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner) “Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum) “It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg)

February 1, 2006, 08:59 PM	#37
Helmetcase Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 90	Tyme, Whattya want to bet there's an in car from the deputy's cruiser that simply hasn't been released yet? Or maybe if the officer had one of those rolling he wouldn't have behaved in such a manner. __________________ ProGun Progressive!

February 2, 2006, 12:18 AM	#45
buckster Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 674	Soldiers don't have to be in Iraq to get shot! Did he tell him to get up so he could shoot him? He didn't taser him first. Is that proper procedure? Obviously, that person should not be a cop. Maybe if he would of used both hands to get up. Unfortunately that person probably served his country too. When they come back to civilian life and become cops they just aren't debriefed properly. Cameras should be standard equipment on all cars. I'm going to go buy a camera and start taping them for a change!

February 1, 2006, 07:02 PM	#26
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	The victim carried his MP ID with him at all times. It has been suggested that he reached for his ID but I could not determine that from the video. If it is true, it goes along with the reports that he was trying to convince the deputy that he was MP. But also you have to assume that he knew better than to reach for ID with a gun pointed at him.

February 1, 2006, 07:25 PM	#27
DavidJBlythe Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: USMC, Centcom Posts: 214	Was the police officer yelling "shut up!" to the MP as he was screaming in pain?

February 1, 2006, 07:27 PM	#28
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	I believe so. He actually wouldn't shut up...the deputy I mean.

February 1, 2006, 07:38 PM	#30
1inthechamber Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Posts: 299	I saw the video on CNN earlier on TV. You can hear the deputy saying 'get up' (as I recall), followed by the shooting. You can clearly hear the deputy cussing at him. I hope the deputy gets canned. The way he handled it is ridiculous even if there was a chase, he wasn't going anywhere, he was on the ground.

February 1, 2006, 07:48 PM	#32
1inthechamber Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Posts: 299	Poor soldier... goes to Iraq, comes home safely and this happens. If he sues (and I hope he does), he could probably retire.

February 1, 2006, 07:55 PM	#33
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	The MP was trying to calm the deputy down prior to the shooting. After the deputy tells the MP to get up, the MP says, "Ok, I'm getting up now." Its almost as if he's bewildered at what the deputy is telling him to do, but is willing to follow instructions even to the point of repeating the instructions back to the him. This reminds me of a surgeon I once knew. Too emotional to be professional and do his job right.

February 1, 2006, 09:30 PM	#40
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	The video was shot by a neighbor who came out when the corvette crashed. He voluntarily gave the footage to investigators then sold it to the media. Quote: "Whattya want to bet there's an in car from the deputy's cruiser that simply hasn't been released yet?" Helmetcase, I think you might be right. Quote: "Or maybe if the officer had one of those rolling he wouldn't have behaved in such a manner." Yes he would have. He wasn't trying to get away with anything, he was trying to do his job...just very poorly.

February 1, 2006, 09:58 PM	#41
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	As stated above, some have suggested the MP was shot while reaching for his ID. I have just seen an enhanced version of the tape and there is no way that is the case. While still on the ground, the MP can be seen talking to the deputy, saying he has served more time in LE than the deputy...his right hand appears near his chest area as if to reach to an inside pocket (presumably to get ID)...the deputy tells him to get up...the MP follows the instructions by placing BOTH hands on the ground to push himself up...it is only at that time, as the MP rises, that he is shot.

February 2, 2006, 01:20 AM	#48
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	osufanboy, I don't think he was trying to cover it up by yelling at him and making comments about the MP coming at him...I honestly believe he felt he was justified at the moment and was trying to rub it in as the MP lay there bleeding. You can tell from his tone that he was mocking him...not justifying his actions IMO. buckster, I may be wrong but I don't believe San Bernardino Sheriffs carry tasers.

February 2, 2006, 01:35 AM	#49
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Three points. Point one. The AP is a criminal actor. Point two. If anyone had been killed during his criminal actions, he would have been charged with murder. Point Three. Stupidity should hurt. I fail to see any problem with the shooting. I feel that gang ties will be exposed and that alcohol or drugs were involved. The investigation will bring everything to the light of day, no CYA. The fact remains, a criminal was shot. The 21 y/o Senior Airman was in the wrong place with the wrong people and doing the wrong thing, he is not innocent, not a victim and not a heroic role model. Stupidity should hurt.

February 2, 2006, 01:57 AM	#50
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	Wow! Sir William, I thought that you'd be backpedaling by the time you posted again. I guess not. You made some good points and observations...but maybe you could find some time to check out the footage the rest of us are looking at. You're obviously not looking at the same video we are. Ok, let's just say he's a violent gang-banger, or even worse...big deal...tell me what he did to warrant getting shot! You said, "The fact remains, a criminal was shot." Are you crazy? I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from. Last edited by choochboost; February 2, 2006 at 07:27 PM.