AOW 12gauge

EnoughGUN · December 6, 2009, 10:29 PM

I am thinking of buying a 15 inch shot gun (total length) just for the fun of it really. Any information on what they are like to shoot or what the pattern is like would be a great help. Thank you.

dogtown tom · December 7, 2009, 12:59 AM

I've never shot one, or owned one.
Having shot a lightweight 12ga single shot I can guess the recoil would be worse.

You should know that the $5 AOW tax does not allow you to put a stock on if you decide the recoil is too much. Putting a stock on an AOW makes it a SBS. It may be better to go ahead and pay the $200 SBS tax and be able to use buttstock or pistol grip only whenever you wish.

Willie Lowman · December 7, 2009, 01:14 AM

I own two 14" barrel cylinder bore SBS. They pattern (with quality buffered 00 buckshot) the same as my friend's 26" 500 with the modified choke tube in. That would be between 9" to 14" patterns at 30 yards depending on the brand of buckshot used. With cheap nonbuffered shot, the pattern is huge. I am lucky to get more than three pellets on a silhouette target at 30 yards with it.

If your state won't allow SBS get a AOW. If your state will allow SBS, get that, they are much more versatile (use of stocks).

Crosshair · December 7, 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Any information on what they are like to shoot or what the pattern is like would be a great help. Thank you.

With Birdshot, my 12" 20 Gauge AOW gets about 18-20" at 10 yards. Haven't patterned Buckshot with it yet.

Here is the recoil when I'm shooting a 20 gauge slug. (Video)

20 Gauge AOW - Slug

Significant, but it can be done.

TRX · December 7, 2009, 01:47 PM

I have a 10" AOW. It is very ammunition-sensitive. Some buckshot loads give giant fireballs but won't penetrate cardboard boxes at 10 feet, lighter "rabbit loads" work much better. I don't reload 12ga, so I've only used whatever was on sale at the store.

When mine was made they just cut off the stock and reshaped the wrist into a flintlock-style pistol grip. Recoil simply drives the gun back through your closed hand and the trigger guard wallops your index finger. After a few shots you have a painful bruise. Brenneke slugs will draw blood.

Back when I bought it I really wanted the sawed-down double look. The gunsmith tried to get me to try out the little pump shotguns he was making; three shots with a pistol grip, not really any bigger than the double. I didn't listen to him, but I wish I had.

If you plan to shoot it, you'll need to arrange a place. In my area the mere sight of the shotgun generated responses varying from "get the hell out of here NOW" to "we're calling the police and you're going to jail forever." None of them would look at the copy of my ATF paperwork I brought along, nor were they willing to call the local ATF office for a reality check.

VUPDblue · December 7, 2009, 07:03 PM

I have a Safety Harbor KEG12 inbound and my good friend has a Serbu Super Shorty. At 15 yards, the Serbu will put about 1-2 pellets of 00buck on an IPSC target, sometimes none at all. With Flitecontrol 00buck, it'll pattern at about 15" at the same distance. For reference, my 18" barreled 870 patterns Flitecontrol in a slug-type group from that distance and it patterns 00buck of most other brands in a 6-8" group. YMMV, HTH!

EnoughGUN · December 7, 2009, 08:09 PM

the one I was looking at is the Serbu super shorty. It is (I think) 15.5 inches overall. Someone mentioned a 10 inch but I don't know if they mean barrel length or total length.
I am not super worried about pattern at 30 yards but I think 30 feet is about right. If it patterns around 15in at 30 feet that would be good.

VUPDblue · December 7, 2009, 08:44 PM

It'll definitely spread, but you'll just have to try out several loads and see which patterns you like best. Shame....

EnoughGUN · December 7, 2009, 09:11 PM

I live in MAryland (yes I know I feel sorry for me too) I can't find any regulations on AOW or SBS. Does anyone know how MD classifies these?

Crosshair · December 7, 2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

I live in MAryland (yes I know I feel sorry for me too) I can't find any regulations on AOW or SBS. Does anyone know how MD classifies these?

As far as I am aware of, All NFA is legal in Maryland.

Here is a good list of dealers.

http://www.major-malfunction.com/maj_malf_5u_005.htm

dogtown tom · December 8, 2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

TRX: I have a 10" AOW...

...When mine was made they just cut off the stock and reshaped the wrist into a flintlock-style pistol grip...

...The gunsmith tried to get me to try out the little pump shotguns he was making; three shots with a pistol grip, not really any bigger than the double. I didn't listen to him, but I wish I had.

That's scary.

It is my understanding that you cannot make an AOW from an existing shotgun- it must be manufactured from a receiver that has never had a stock attached. If that gunsmith is cutting down existing shotgun buttstocks and barrels he is manufacturing short barrelled shotguns- NOT AOW's.

NFA Handbook: http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5320-8.pdf

See page 6 for 2.1.2 Weapon made from a shotgun

.

VUPDblue · December 8, 2009, 04:32 PM

yep, if it had a stock attached (as you referred to "reshaping the stock into a pistol grip") then it HAS to be a SBS...

Rebok87 · December 15, 2009, 08:55 PM

Several months ago one of our clients asked us to build a shorty AOW based on the Serbu style. He provided a Mossberg 500 Maverick. The little weapon has a 6 ¾” barrel and holds 3 rounds (2 in the mag tube 1 in the chamber). It bucked pretty good but was more than manageable for me with 00 buck; I’m a girl 5’5 / 130’ish lbs. Accuracy and patterning depending on ammo, where about 18”-24” at 25 ft. Hope this info helps.

dogtown tom · December 16, 2009, 01:26 AM

Can you explain how that qualifies as an AOW and not as a "Weapon made from a shotgun"?

David Hineline · December 16, 2009, 10:17 AM

A shotgun that came from the manuf. with only a pistol grip is not a longgun it can not be sold by a FFL dealer to anyone under 21 just like a handgun. Since it is not a longgun it meets the definition of Smooth Bore AOW with a short barrel, as long as it never had and never will have a buttstock.

But the definition of AOW also included combination guns manually reloaded and they can have a buttstock.

So if you took a double barrel over/under 12ga and sleeved one barrel to 45/70 or other rifled cartridge and cut down the barrel short, but left the buttstock that would be AOW.

That exact pictured combination could be a short shotgun if it started as a shotgun.

LukeA · December 16, 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

That exact pictured combination could be a short shotgun if it started as a shotgun.

Yes, but the transfer tax on an AOW is $5 instead of the $200 for an SBS, so there's an incentive to start with a shotgun that has never had a stock.

paull · December 16, 2009, 04:33 PM

Remember, the $5 AOW tax is only for transfers...
Someone will pay $200 to make the AOW...
I expect that the manufacturer will not eat that cost.
p

Crosshair · December 16, 2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Remember, the $5 AOW tax is only for transfers...
Someone will pay $200 to make the AOW...
I expect that the manufacturer will not eat that cost.

Class 7 NFA Manufacturers don't have to pay the tax when building.

paull · December 17, 2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Class 7 NFA Manufacturers don't have to pay the tax when building.

...and this thread is just crawling with "Class 7 NFA Manufacturers", I'll bet.

p

Crosshair · December 17, 2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

...and this thread is just crawling with "Class 7 NFA Manufacturers", I'll bet.

No, but if you have one nearby they can register and turn the gun into an AOW, then transfer it back to you. The SOT I go through is also licensed as a manufacturer, he mainly makes his own suppressors.

David Hineline · December 18, 2009, 12:00 AM

I would charge $100 to register a gun and transfer for someone more to actually cut the barrel, so the $195 savings over doing it all yourself gets eaten up quickly.

The biggest advantage of the AOW unit is not the tax savings it is that some states do not allow Sawed off Shotguns and no federal paperwork is needed to transport an AOW across state lines, where as the short shotgun must have previous ATF approval to cross state lines.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm

Crosshair · December 18, 2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

The biggest advantage of the AOW unit is not the tax savings it is that some states do not allow Sawed off Shotguns and no federal paperwork is needed to transport an AOW across state lines, where as the short shotgun must have previous ATF approval to cross state lines.

That too. You can only have C&R SBS in Minnesota whereas AOWs are unrestricted. That was one reason for going the AOW route for me because I wanted to be able to take it into MN. (That and the price was right.)

December 6, 2009, 10:29 PM	#1
EnoughGUN Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 538	AOW 12gauge I am thinking of buying a 15 inch shot gun (total length) just for the fun of it really. Any information on what they are like to shoot or what the pattern is like would be a great help. Thank you. __________________ GLOCK Austrian for Lemming

December 7, 2009, 12:59 AM	#2
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,073	I've never shot one, or owned one. Having shot a lightweight 12ga single shot I can guess the recoil would be worse. You should know that the $5 AOW tax does not allow you to put a stock on if you decide the recoil is too much. Putting a stock on an AOW makes it a SBS. It may be better to go ahead and pay the $200 SBS tax and be able to use buttstock or pistol grip only whenever you wish. __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

December 7, 2009, 07:03 PM	#6
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	I have a Safety Harbor KEG12 inbound and my good friend has a Serbu Super Shorty. At 15 yards, the Serbu will put about 1-2 pellets of 00buck on an IPSC target, sometimes none at all. With Flitecontrol 00buck, it'll pattern at about 15" at the same distance. For reference, my 18" barreled 870 patterns Flitecontrol in a slug-type group from that distance and it patterns 00buck of most other brands in a 6-8" group. YMMV, HTH! __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 7, 2009, 08:09 PM	#7
EnoughGUN Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 538	the one I was looking at is the Serbu super shorty. It is (I think) 15.5 inches overall. Someone mentioned a 10 inch but I don't know if they mean barrel length or total length. I am not super worried about pattern at 30 yards but I think 30 feet is about right. If it patterns around 15in at 30 feet that would be good. __________________ GLOCK Austrian for Lemming

December 7, 2009, 08:44 PM	#8
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	It'll definitely spread, but you'll just have to try out several loads and see which patterns you like best. Shame.... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 7, 2009, 01:14 AM	#3
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I own two 14" barrel cylinder bore SBS. They pattern (with quality buffered 00 buckshot) the same as my friend's 26" 500 with the modified choke tube in. That would be between 9" to 14" patterns at 30 yards depending on the brand of buckshot used. With cheap nonbuffered shot, the pattern is huge. I am lucky to get more than three pellets on a silhouette target at 30 yards with it. If your state won't allow SBS get a AOW. If your state will allow SBS, get that, they are much more versatile (use of stocks).

December 7, 2009, 01:47 PM	#5
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	I have a 10" AOW. It is very ammunition-sensitive. Some buckshot loads give giant fireballs but won't penetrate cardboard boxes at 10 feet, lighter "rabbit loads" work much better. I don't reload 12ga, so I've only used whatever was on sale at the store. When mine was made they just cut off the stock and reshaped the wrist into a flintlock-style pistol grip. Recoil simply drives the gun back through your closed hand and the trigger guard wallops your index finger. After a few shots you have a painful bruise. Brenneke slugs will draw blood. Back when I bought it I really wanted the sawed-down double look. The gunsmith tried to get me to try out the little pump shotguns he was making; three shots with a pistol grip, not really any bigger than the double. I didn't listen to him, but I wish I had. If you plan to shoot it, you'll need to arrange a place. In my area the mere sight of the shotgun generated responses varying from "get the hell out of here NOW" to "we're calling the police and you're going to jail forever." None of them would look at the copy of my ATF paperwork I brought along, nor were they willing to call the local ATF office for a reality check.

December 7, 2009, 09:11 PM	#9
EnoughGUN Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 538	I live in MAryland (yes I know I feel sorry for me too) I can't find any regulations on AOW or SBS. Does anyone know how MD classifies these? __________________ GLOCK Austrian for Lemming

December 8, 2009, 04:32 PM	#12
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	yep, if it had a stock attached (as you referred to "reshaping the stock into a pistol grip") then it HAS to be a SBS... __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 15, 2009, 08:55 PM	#13
Rebok87 Member Join Date: December 14, 2009 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 60	Several months ago one of our clients asked us to build a shorty AOW based on the Serbu style. He provided a Mossberg 500 Maverick. The little weapon has a 6 ¾” barrel and holds 3 rounds (2 in the mag tube 1 in the chamber). It bucked pretty good but was more than manageable for me with 00 buck; I’m a girl 5’5 / 130’ish lbs. Accuracy and patterning depending on ammo, where about 18”-24” at 25 ft. Hope this info helps.

December 16, 2009, 01:26 AM	#14
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,073	Can you explain how that qualifies as an AOW and not as a "Weapon made from a shotgun"? __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

December 16, 2009, 10:17 AM	#15
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	A shotgun that came from the manuf. with only a pistol grip is not a longgun it can not be sold by a FFL dealer to anyone under 21 just like a handgun. Since it is not a longgun it meets the definition of Smooth Bore AOW with a short barrel, as long as it never had and never will have a buttstock. But the definition of AOW also included combination guns manually reloaded and they can have a buttstock. So if you took a double barrel over/under 12ga and sleeved one barrel to 45/70 or other rifled cartridge and cut down the barrel short, but left the buttstock that would be AOW. That exact pictured combination could be a short shotgun if it started as a shotgun.

December 16, 2009, 04:33 PM	#17
paull Junior member Join Date: November 9, 1999 Location: SE Texas, 'tween Houston & Galveston Posts: 157	Remember, the $5 AOW tax is only for transfers... Someone will pay $200 to make the AOW... I expect that the manufacturer will not eat that cost. p

December 18, 2009, 12:00 AM	#21
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	I would charge $100 to register a gun and transfer for someone more to actually cut the barrel, so the $195 savings over doing it all yourself gets eaten up quickly. The biggest advantage of the AOW unit is not the tax savings it is that some states do not allow Sawed off Shotguns and no federal paperwork is needed to transport an AOW across state lines, where as the short shotgun must have previous ATF approval to cross state lines. http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm

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