HB Wadcutter loaded hollow out

[ruger.john]

I the 60's I read an article in Guns Magazine on .38 Special defense loads. They gave a load for a hollow base wadcutter loaded backwards. I remember trying them on 5 gallon pails of water and having the cans rupture in a spectacular manner. I can't remember details of the load. Anybody know anything about this?
PS
I've been out of reloading and shooting for years and lost track of all my old load data. Just got back into shooting a year ago and just recently in reloading and love it more than ever.

[Sevens]

IMO, it would be a fun trick to try. I know I've seen match shooters who seem to come up with one on occasion as a by product of laziness/mistakes at the loading bench. I don't think there's anything unsafe about them, even given the little less internal space. I would imagine that accuracy is fairly decent as long as it's kept to the shorter ranges.

With all that said, I can't see anything more come of it than a gimmick. It wouldn't make any sense as a defense load because in the end, it's still a slow moving swaged lead wadcutter. Remember that what you read was in the 60s and bullet technology has skyrocketed since then. If you find that they are decently accurate, it could be a good plinking load for destroying targets on the range.

If you need data, I would simply take regular old HBWC data and use it. Might be a wee bit faster due to the smaller case volume, but not enough to be dangerous. But don't get any ideas of pushing it faster, because a swaged lead wadcutter will lead up that barrel quicker than you can load a cylinderful.

[Musketeer]

There was an article in either American Handgunner or Combat Hanguns on this very ssubject several years ago. Specifically they were talking about 38 special snubby rounds, I think Chuck Taylor was the author. They tried out the old reversed hollow based wadcutter to see if it had any real merit. If I remember correctly it didn't.

Use properly designed expanding ammo if you want expanding ammo.

[Bottom Gun]

I loaded and tested some inverted .38 cal Hornady wad cutters years ago. They work but you will get better accuracy and more reliable expansion/penetration by using a good hollow point bullet.

Also, I'm not sure I would want to depend on one for self defense because of the reliability and because it could possibly create a problem for you should a self defense shooting be followed by any litigation.

[armoredman]

The reversed hollow based wadcutter was indeed, simply a way to make a hollow point when there wasn't one available. Nowadays, if you want a 38Spl load to use in defense, and one that has stood both the test of time and court, use a 158gr+P LWSCHP, best in a 38 Spl.

[kjack]

I have an older issue of Handgun Digest where this is discussed (as well as an article about an undersize steel rod cut down into projectiles with a copper cup to bump up to bore diameter - for metal piercing).

I may have been pushing the ones I loaded a little too fast. I got shotgun patterns at anything beyond 7 yards from a Taurus snubby and a few keyholes (actually, sideways hits).

Interesting exercise, but not really practical in my limited experience.

[Musketeer]

FYI, the hollow base is there to help force the expansion of the bullet within the barrel so that the rifling takes full effect. Think of the Civil War MiniBall. Without that hollow base there is a good chance you are not getting the full effects of the rifling and are loosing bullet stability. That would handily explain the keyholing...

[SL1]

Don't try to load thwm hot. I have read that it is possible to blow the center through the bullet and leave a ring of lead obstructing the barrel if the the hollow bases are loaded to magnum pressures, no matter whether the hollow is forward or back.

SL1

[wncchester]

I tested them extensively in the 70s and found them amusing for my wife's .38 snubby but eventually dropped them.

Don't think they are likely to blow through at all, there's the same amount of lead to be moved no matter which end goes out first. Mine were not at all accurate past maybe 8-10 yards but that's beyond normal self-defense range.

Within 3 to 5 yards, mine shot fine and expansion into milk jugs of water. The loads were pretty reliable with moderate charges of Bullseye. Higher velocities hurt my accuracy so penetration was lacking and that's why I dropped them. Still, for a real world self-defense load, I think they do a good job without a lot of recoil.

[T. O'Heir]

Any cast bullet data for the bullet weight will do. However, like SL1 says, don't load 'em hot. HBWC's are usually swaged out of rather soft lead.

[MADISON]

Liability is the only thing about HBWC loaded backwards.
Back in the 60's I had a Model 52 S&W revolver.
I loaded 2.8 grains of Bullseye.
The loads loaded solid nose out grouped less than 2 inches at 15 years.
When I loaded the HBWC loaded backwards they grouped 3+ inches.

[BILLY D.]

So whats new. Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan were using these in the 70's with a hot load of 2400 powder.

According to their reports the bullets turned inside out.

Best wishes, Bill

[SL1]

Madison wrote:

"I loaded 2.8 grains of Bullseye.
The loads loaded solid nose out grouped less than 2 inches at 15 years."

Good God man, use more powder for a defense load! After 15 YEARS, I'm sure your target will have moved ;-).

SL1