January 6, 2009, 03:01 PM | #51 | |
Junior member
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
|
Quote:
|
|
January 6, 2009, 03:10 PM | #52 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
lol, unless you are a Bruce LEE or Chuck Norris, I don't believe you
|
January 6, 2009, 03:12 PM | #53 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
What part don't you believe?
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
January 6, 2009, 03:14 PM | #54 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
read above what keltyke said.
|
January 6, 2009, 03:18 PM | #55 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Well, I don't know Keltyke but I would prefer not to bet my life on my ability to sneak up on ANYONE.
Which is partly why I make my money the honest way.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
January 6, 2009, 03:22 PM | #56 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
Ok Peete, it's not a rocket science ok. BG most likely will have the weapon handy, and ready so if he is sneaking up from behind YOU DON"T HAVE A CHANCE. Not only that, the often BG does these things the better he gets, he learns a trick or two on sneaking up on people.
If it can happened it will happened. |
January 6, 2009, 03:28 PM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
I humbly suggest:
1. Decide what outcome you want - survive, save your money at risk of your life, make a statement about your self-image and how you save society. 2. Take action for that outcome. Don't complain if goes awry. 3. Before you posture on your ability to be observant, handle this or that kind of fight - please consider some serious FOF training that explores how you do act under stress and how you can be taken unaware. If you have proven such ability, then you said document it here - rather than saying you could do XY or Z. Having done the NTI and several FOF classes designed to put the civilian in some of the situations stated, I am not sanguine about some of the posturing of spider sense or ability.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 6, 2009, 03:58 PM | #58 | |
Junior member
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
|
Quote:
And on that note, I am outta here and George, you're ignored. |
|
January 6, 2009, 04:04 PM | #59 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 22, 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 110
|
its actualy a good question. in all the many robberies i have taken no one has been shot just giving up their property. BUT it has happened several times in this fine city i work. most recently that i can think of a guy went into a gas station and pointed a gun at the clerk. the clerk gave the bad guy the money with no problems. the bad guy then shot him for no reason. so it is a good question. with just one bad guy do you try to distract his attention by throwing your wallet six feet to his side and go for your gun when he is looking at the wallet? more than one guy with more than one gun do you go for your gun and hope for really really good trauma doctors in the ER? that would be a decission one would have to make for ones self when in that situation. cause everyone is john wayne when talking but most are just the opposite when actualy in the situation.
|
January 6, 2009, 04:46 PM | #60 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Fact and opinion differ. Evidence would be interesting. I'm not trying to be rude but I know a fair bit about attention and postulating that one cannot be taken unawares doesn't jive with what we know about it.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 6, 2009, 05:24 PM | #61 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 2008
Location: Live Free or Die state
Posts: 259
|
Add a wrinkle to this scenario
Lots of heated discussions about what we'd all do. So take this wrinkle. The below is my nightmare, why i carry, and i still don't have a good response.
So now you're walking with your wife, after seeing a show maybe, and these 4 guys pop up out of dark stoops in front, behind, your situational awareness couldn't spot them beforehand. The guns are pointed at both your wife and you. What do you do? Is there any difference in your reaction? how can you save her when you're busy saving yourself? How good are you? does she carry too? Are the BG serious or just punks or can you tell? Do you give them your wallet? Truth - when they get the drop on you, no matter how, your options are reduced to bad and worse. Compliance is bad, for all the reasons already stated. But dying, and getting your wife shot or killed, is worse. Somebody in that scenario is getting shot if you draw.
__________________
"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon. |
January 6, 2009, 05:33 PM | #62 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
Once the wife is brought into the realm... It is fight to the death! If we were both to escape with our lives and I had done nothing to protect her, she is gonna make my life a miserable hell! "YOU HAD YOUR GUN AND DID NOTHING???"
First move is to put the wife down... SHE HATES THAT PART The reaction of the BG's is likely astonishment when one victim jumps the other... Then I commence to fight to the death with any and all weapons available to me... Brent |
January 6, 2009, 05:37 PM | #63 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
January 6, 2009, 05:43 PM | #64 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
I just realized!!!
I make a real sorry example as the "proper victim" Kinda like when some dog postures up on one certain "catch dog" bulldog I own... She is the greatest dopey looking bulldog with not a mean bone in her body but if a dog postures (no matter their size) she is gonna commence to whoopin butt and taking names! Brent |
January 6, 2009, 05:43 PM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
BTW, compliance has bounds as Pax once listed. For example, going with them, on your knees with the back of your head to them - may not be the way to go.
However, the point is survival or is the point 'ego'? If your wife gets mad at you because you didn't kick butt but you are both unhurt (if robbed of cash), then next time - let her duke it out and you scamper off for help.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 6, 2009, 05:45 PM | #66 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
Glenn, I never learned that "scamper" technique...
Brent |
January 6, 2009, 05:47 PM | #67 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
Exactly, there comes a point where there's nothing left to gamble. "Turn around and get on your knees." is definitely at or beyond that point.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
January 6, 2009, 05:52 PM | #68 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 22, 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 110
|
glen i like it, after all are we not in the days of equality among the sexes? its time she takes one for the team.
|
January 6, 2009, 05:52 PM | #69 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
I tell you what, it pretty scary to deal w. something like that b/c you never know how it will turn out. I just hope that non of us would have to deal with that
|
January 6, 2009, 06:02 PM | #70 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
Another worthy point about Mrs.hogdogs... She isn't some mousy little thing. Likely in a mugging she is going to commence, in one breath, to cuss out the deviant subjects and order me to kill them! More than once I have had to pull her off of guys! There have been other times she has been mad because I didn't take her side in situations (back was sore for a month after those weeks in bowsers house)... It didn't do my case anygood when I tell her the reason was because she was out of line and/or off base in the situation...
She has "MEAN MOMMA" genes! Brent |
January 6, 2009, 06:24 PM | #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: In a state of flux
Posts: 7,520
|
One of the things that seriously complicates any discussion like this is the fact that after an attack, particularly one in which the victim cooperated, the victim often has a significant ego investment in believing that there was nothing else he could do other than cooperate. By necessity, most crime survivors who cooperate with their attackers are very adamant about that, but this belief may not always be congruent with physical reality. That's not to say crime victims lie about their encounters, but the human ego strongly protects itself. For many people, the only way they can live with the memory of the crime and their cooperation with it, is to cling tenaciously to their own powerlessness. To support or enable that belief is often (not always) to support a lie. But it's the kind and compassionate thing to do anyway.
On the flip side, and equally difficult from a discussion standpoint, nobody in the world is capable of a ruthlessly accurate assessment of their own capabilities and alertness status. Some come closer than others, but they're rarely the people who believe themselves to be fully self-aware (see http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf for a discussion of how & why that might be true). Whenever someone opines, "Nobody would ever catch me off-guard," it's a 100% certainty that the person who is talking is nowhere near as alert as they think they are. This isn't rhetoric, either. It's simply the truth. As a human animal, you are blind and inattentive a lot of the time, and you simply do not recognize that fact because -- well, because you're blind a lot of the time. It's simply the way you're wired. A lot of us in the firearms world are passingly familiar with the phrases "tunnel vision" and "auditory exclusion." We tend to think of these phenomena as if they are solely the product of adrenal stress. That's not true. (See http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews/...ime-to-update/ for a great discussion of that.) Tunnel vision is a variant of a phenomena sometimes called "inattentional blindness", "sustained inattentional blindness", or "change blindness." These are all separate but closely-related ways to describe some specific failures in how the human brain perceives and stores information. Generally speaking, the most intensely we focus upon a task, or the more difficult the task becomes, the less we observe about the world around us. Incidentally, it's why magicians are able to work their magic. A skilled sleight of hand performer takes advantage of these known weaknesses in human perception -- in fact, he often walks right through them. Repeatedly. Sometimes this blindness can be quite striking, and even humorous. A few years back, some researchers won an Ig Nobel Prize for their study, "Gorillas in Our Midst: sustained inattentional blindness for dynamic events." The authors ingeniously demonstrated that when we pay attention to something, it's all too easy to overlook other events happening right in front of us -- even a woman in a gorilla suit. Standing right in the middle of a screen at which the subject is directly focused upon. And remaining there for five full seconds while the subject continues to focus on the screen. And beating her upper chest before walking off the screen. Utterly invisible to roughly half the very attentive and focused observers ... (Oh, yeah, I know. Everyone reading this would be in the other half... ) The people in that study weren't unusual in any way. They were normal. Just as the posters in this thread are all normal. Guys, you can be taken by surprise. If you are determined to be tactical and safe, you owe it to yourself to have a plan to cope with situations where you ARE taken off guard, where you ARE suprised by an unanticipated event, where you AREN'T ahead of the game and magically in control of all circumstances. Because quite frankly, failing to be prepared to cope with this reality is living in a fantasy world. pax |
January 6, 2009, 06:33 PM | #72 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
Cool post PAX. i don't know the scientific stuff, but i do know that the more often those Muggers do it the better they get at it. They practice too ya know, it's a two way steet.
|
January 6, 2009, 07:07 PM | #73 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
|
__________________
Quote:
|
|
January 6, 2009, 07:50 PM | #74 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 226
|
very cool alloy!
|
January 6, 2009, 10:52 PM | #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 3, 2009
Location: Bismark
Posts: 332
|
My dad always told me this, When dealing with an armed robber who has you at gun point, if you decide to draw, you have to;
1)Find gun with your hand 2)Unclasp button/move clothing 3)Draw weapon 4)Aim (even quick target aquisition counts) 5)Pull Trigger The BG has to 1) Pull Trigger. How fast are you? As for situational awareness goes, i give a stern look to anyone even looking in my direction, and if they are within ten or fifteen feet of me i VERY Loudly ask "Can I help you?" I get alot of looks like "what a psycho" and "man that guy is a dick" But i've never been mugged... I've never even been solicited for spare change! And my girlfriend loves it because she says she never worries about being bothered when we're together. (which has it's withdrawls, as she loves to shop and i HATE IT!!! But i ALWAYS go with her) It comes down to this, if i don't know you, and you're walking toward me, Especially if you're between my 3:00 and 9:00 I'm going to address you, and ask your business. (I.E. Hey, do you need something?) and if i get anything other than, "nope just walking home" Then i move to my aggressive stance (which is, turn and face you with my hands free of pockets) and hold my ground until the person has either walked by or changed direction. I may sound like a bully but I just want to make it home every night and unlike them, I KNOW that i have no intention to hurt anyone. My Kickboxing teacher always said that when someone starts talking crap or acting tough, you should leave. But if you can't, and you're sure that a fight is iminent, Lose your mind and scream like a psycho! Go over the top and yell like a rabid Grizzly... Become the aggressor, but not in a provoking mannor. I've done this at countless parties when i was in highschool, and the drunk bad ass never knows what to think or do... They are in awe. They turn around and walk out, yes i may look like a moron. BUT I"M SAFE! I don't care what that stranger thinks about me. Because i'll probably never see them again, and i'll be unharmed. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|