how many pellets to use

tomlj75 · January 16, 2005, 09:19 PM

I just bought a conneticut valley arms eclipse 209 magnum 50 cal. rifle it is my first black powder rifle, the guy at the gun shop gave me some 50 grain pyrodex pellets and a box of sabots, how many pellets of powder do I use safely. I love a gun with a kick but only done safely.

fastforty · January 17, 2005, 01:10 AM

http://sycamoreisland.bizhosting.com...09_magnum.html
It looks like you're good to go with 3 of the pellets for a magnum load, but 2 pellets will work very nicely.

Your warrantee manual can be found here:
PDF version with pictures:
http://www.cva.com/warranty/OptimaWarrBook.pdf&e=9901

1BadF350 · January 17, 2005, 04:21 PM

I've always been told 3 max no matter what size they are. 2 is plenty (100 grain) unless your shoooting a real heavy projectile. I have the percussion cap type ignition on mine (Springfield Hawken) and I can't use them unless I first pour a little powder in first but heck by then may as well just use the powder anyway.

Mark whiz · January 17, 2005, 04:40 PM

AS previously stated, the rifle CAN fire 3-50gr pellets...............but 2 is your best bet. Accuracy tends to go away fairly quickly with the hotter loads, especially if you're using bullets of less than 300gr in weight.

If you can, try some 300gr Hornady XTP Mag or SSTsabots with that 2 pellet load - I think you'll see some good groups with them.

tomlj75 · January 17, 2005, 09:04 PM

thanks for all your advise, I have to wait till it warms up to shoot it though

oconnell · February 10, 2005, 10:52 PM

Use Caution CVA guns are ok and some shoot Well very well indeed however the quality control and inferior grade materials used means that 100 gains of powder is all that you should shoot some people say go 120 or 150 these guns have knick name spanish Booby trap they did not get that because they are strong guns it has to do with the incosistant quality of the steel used in the barrel and critical areas some of these spanish gun are very accurate but they are not know for thier strength if you are conservative you should be fine If you whant to keep it around a while and enjoy this rifle start 60 or 70grains pyrodex or the real stuff black powder 2ff but keep it 100grains or less If you whant to load heavy buy an aAmercan made one t/c nef etc Ive been in the muzzle loading bis. for well over 30 years and ive sold hundreds of cva and other brands I am also a gun smith and gun maker dont get me wrong your CVA is a good gun its just not a strong gun Have fun and dont get Hurt

IndianaHunter · February 17, 2005, 10:02 AM

Hello, oconnell is correct in the amount, 100 grains but I would you loose powder. 1, it’s a more accurate measure of volume in that pellets can vary in weight from pellet to pellet. 2, with 777 you get better velocity. 3, any pre-measured load you will need for a backup shot will be just as quick to load as pellets. Black powder is better that Pyrodex or 777 in that the latter two loose strength as they age so velocity and point of impact will change.

1SHOT1KILL · February 17, 2005, 11:31 AM

In any CVA, Traditions, or Winchester muzzleloading products, I would NEVER exceed 100 grains, loose or pellets, of any blackpowder substitue, like Pyrodex, BlacK Mag 3, American Powder, and especially Triple Seven. 3 pellet (150gr) loads in these muzzleloaders is a recipe for disaster, a ticking time bomb if you will. You may get by with it for one shot, a hunder shots, or even 500 shots, but sooner or later it will go KABOOM.

In one documented case, the attorney "details how a man purchased a new CVA .50 caliber inline, a package of 50 caliber / 50 grain Hodgdon brand Triple Seven propellant pellets, a package of Winchester brand W209 Primers and a CVA brand .50 caliber Complete Muzzleloading Accessory Outfit at a chain store according to the receipt. A short while later, one primer was fired per the instructions and then, to sight in the muzzleloader, loaded 3 of the 50 grain pellets, a .50 caliber “PowerBelt” 295 grain hollow point bullet with plastic “sabot” snap-on base and a W209 primer. He fired the muzzleloader and the barrel exploded. His wife was present at the scene of the accident. She transported him to the hospital ER. This man was in the emergency room within about two hours of his new purchase. Two surgeries have already been performed in an attempt to repair the damage to his hand as a result of the explosion. More are indicated."

The material they use in Spain to make these barrels out of, is either 1137 or 1140 steel and equivalent S/S. It has to be that soft in order to be utilized in the extrusion method of manufacturing that is used to make these barrels. Compared to the 4140 or 416 S/S, material that is used on many American made muzzlelaoders, these Spainish made muzzleloaders can be down right dangerous, in comparasion, if you start shooting so-called 150gr "magnum" charges in them. CVA, Traditions, and Winchester have in the past, recommended 150 grain "magnum" loads for their muzzleloaders. However, Hodgdon Powder recommends ONLY 100 grains.

Bottom line, keep your loads limited to 2 (50gr) pellets or 100 gr loose and you should be good to go and safe. If in the future you decide that you want to upgrade to magnum loads, then be all means upgrade muzzleloaders before you upgrade to those magnum loads.

January 16, 2005, 09:19 PM	#1
tomlj75 Member Join Date: January 12, 2005 Posts: 23	how many pellets to use I just bought a conneticut valley arms eclipse 209 magnum 50 cal. rifle it is my first black powder rifle, the guy at the gun shop gave me some 50 grain pyrodex pellets and a box of sabots, how many pellets of powder do I use safely. I love a gun with a kick but only done safely.

January 17, 2005, 01:10 AM	#2
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	http://sycamoreisland.bizhosting.com...09_magnum.html It looks like you're good to go with 3 of the pellets for a magnum load, but 2 pellets will work very nicely. Your warrantee manual can be found here: PDF version with pictures: http://www.cva.com/warranty/OptimaWarrBook.pdf&e=9901 __________________ When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath. Last edited by fastforty; January 17, 2005 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Stupidity

January 17, 2005, 04:40 PM	#4
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	AS previously stated, the rifle CAN fire 3-50gr pellets...............but 2 is your best bet. Accuracy tends to go away fairly quickly with the hotter loads, especially if you're using bullets of less than 300gr in weight. If you can, try some 300gr Hornady XTP Mag or SSTsabots with that 2 pellet load - I think you'll see some good groups with them. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

February 10, 2005, 10:52 PM	#6
oconnell Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 19	Cva Use Caution CVA guns are ok and some shoot Well very well indeed however the quality control and inferior grade materials used means that 100 gains of powder is all that you should shoot some people say go 120 or 150 these guns have knick name spanish Booby trap they did not get that because they are strong guns it has to do with the incosistant quality of the steel used in the barrel and critical areas some of these spanish gun are very accurate but they are not know for thier strength if you are conservative you should be fine If you whant to keep it around a while and enjoy this rifle start 60 or 70grains pyrodex or the real stuff black powder 2ff but keep it 100grains or less If you whant to load heavy buy an aAmercan made one t/c nef etc Ive been in the muzzle loading bis. for well over 30 years and ive sold hundreds of cva and other brands I am also a gun smith and gun maker dont get me wrong your CVA is a good gun its just not a strong gun Have fun and dont get Hurt

January 17, 2005, 04:21 PM	#3
1BadF350 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 915	I've always been told 3 max no matter what size they are. 2 is plenty (100 grain) unless your shoooting a real heavy projectile. I have the percussion cap type ignition on mine (Springfield Hawken) and I can't use them unless I first pour a little powder in first but heck by then may as well just use the powder anyway.

January 17, 2005, 09:04 PM	#5
tomlj75 Member Join Date: January 12, 2005 Posts: 23	thanks for all your advise, I have to wait till it warms up to shoot it though

February 17, 2005, 10:02 AM	#7
IndianaHunter Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 16	Hello, oconnell is correct in the amount, 100 grains but I would you loose powder. 1, it’s a more accurate measure of volume in that pellets can vary in weight from pellet to pellet. 2, with 777 you get better velocity. 3, any pre-measured load you will need for a backup shot will be just as quick to load as pellets. Black powder is better that Pyrodex or 777 in that the latter two loose strength as they age so velocity and point of impact will change.

February 17, 2005, 11:31 AM	#8
1SHOT1KILL Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Posts: 15	In any CVA, Traditions, or Winchester muzzleloading products, I would NEVER exceed 100 grains, loose or pellets, of any blackpowder substitue, like Pyrodex, BlacK Mag 3, American Powder, and especially Triple Seven. 3 pellet (150gr) loads in these muzzleloaders is a recipe for disaster, a ticking time bomb if you will. You may get by with it for one shot, a hunder shots, or even 500 shots, but sooner or later it will go KABOOM. In one documented case, the attorney "details how a man purchased a new CVA .50 caliber inline, a package of 50 caliber / 50 grain Hodgdon brand Triple Seven propellant pellets, a package of Winchester brand W209 Primers and a CVA brand .50 caliber Complete Muzzleloading Accessory Outfit at a chain store according to the receipt. A short while later, one primer was fired per the instructions and then, to sight in the muzzleloader, loaded 3 of the 50 grain pellets, a .50 caliber “PowerBelt” 295 grain hollow point bullet with plastic “sabot” snap-on base and a W209 primer. He fired the muzzleloader and the barrel exploded. His wife was present at the scene of the accident. She transported him to the hospital ER. This man was in the emergency room within about two hours of his new purchase. Two surgeries have already been performed in an attempt to repair the damage to his hand as a result of the explosion. More are indicated." The material they use in Spain to make these barrels out of, is either 1137 or 1140 steel and equivalent S/S. It has to be that soft in order to be utilized in the extrusion method of manufacturing that is used to make these barrels. Compared to the 4140 or 416 S/S, material that is used on many American made muzzlelaoders, these Spainish made muzzleloaders can be down right dangerous, in comparasion, if you start shooting so-called 150gr "magnum" charges in them. CVA, Traditions, and Winchester have in the past, recommended 150 grain "magnum" loads for their muzzleloaders. However, Hodgdon Powder recommends ONLY 100 grains. Bottom line, keep your loads limited to 2 (50gr) pellets or 100 gr loose and you should be good to go and safe. If in the future you decide that you want to upgrade to magnum loads, then be all means upgrade muzzleloaders before you upgrade to those magnum loads.