Not my experience.

SaxonPig · August 11, 2015, 07:18 AM

There is a current thread about a member buying a handgun from an individual who walked it into a gun shop. I have no idea what happened in this transaction, but I recall the one time about 35 years ago when I offered to buy a gun from a person who took it to a gun shop to sell.

I was hanging around, perusing the guns on display when a middle aged man walked in with what was obviously a pistol wrapped up in a towel. I overheard him tell the shop owner that his brother had passed on and he wound up with the gun and he had no interest in it. Would the shop owner want to buy it?

He unwrapped a very nice Browning Hi-Power P35. I casually eyed the interaction from the side as the dealer gave the pistol the once over and offered the man $65 for it. At that time I think the gun would likely have a $300 price in a shop so I thought $65 was a very low offer. The owner agreed with me as he shook his head and declined to sell.

The gun was wrapped up again and as the man started for the door I said "I'll give you $200 for it."

At that point the shop owner began screaming...I mean screaming at me...about stealing his business. Between curses and vile insults he ordered me out of his shop and demanded that I never return. The man with the Browning was visibly shaken by the incident and scurried back to his car and left.

I figured the dealer made his offer and didn't make the purchase. I really wasn't trying to take the gun away from the shop owner. I didn't think I was stepping on his toes by making an offer after it was clear the gun's owner wouldn't sell at the dealer's offered price. But I was obviously wrong. Maybe I should have followed the man outside and spoke to him after leaving the shop. Don't know if the dealer would have seen that as any better.

Anyway, every once in a while I read on a forum about somebody buying a gun brought into a shop and I am reminded of my experience in trying to do that. Maybe others have better luck.

**Mike Irwin** · August 11, 2015, 07:34 AM

I've seen it go both ways -- shop owner gets testy with something like that, or the guy bringing the gun in gets really offended at the offer that's made and goes off the deep end.

The owner of the shop was a bit of an ass, but to be perfectly honest, you were, too, a bit. I'd never make an offer on a customer gun right in front of the owner. I'd walk out after the guy, tell him I'd like to make an offer on his gun, and have him follow me up the street.

garryc · August 11, 2015, 07:34 AM

The owner was attempting to play on the sellers ignorance. Really unethical in my opinion. Good you got tossed out, that lack of ethics goes beyond that one proposed transaction. Not a guy I'd do business with.

zukiphile · August 11, 2015, 07:58 AM

Being verbally abusive doesn't have a place in business, but one can see the shopkeeper's view. I am not in the business, but have represented a few.

He pays rent, utilities, payroll and advertising to cultivate business opportunities, not to provide a meeting place for non-licensed sellers and buyers looking for a deal.

I've seen shopkeepers who don't mind providing what amounts to a clubhouse to a cadre of regulars. They may see a friendly culture as an asset to the business, and the regulars know they have a good thing and don't interfere with the shopkeepers business.

I've also seen shopkeepers who never see beyond the immediate transaction and view knowledgeable regulars as an enemy with a lower potential margin.

There seem to be quite a few of the former who persist year after year despite not making a fortune. (In fact, I think it can be a pretty tough business.)

The latter kind in my area needs to have some special attribute or they close up after a year or two. Few will use an unpleasant merchant when friendly ones offer an equivalent product.

jmr40 · August 11, 2015, 10:07 AM

Several years back I had a similar, although more civil interaction. Looking around in a pawn shop a guy comes in with a Remington 700 ADL in 270. This was when they still had walnut on the ADL's. Guy needed to sell or pawn it for $200. It was a Friday on the last day of March and he needed rent money.

The pawn shop owner apologized and told the guy that $200 was fair, but he already had more hunting rifles than he needed and it wouldn't sell for months. He just didn't want to tie up money in one at that time.

I made eye contact with the shop owner and asked if he minded if I looked at it. He nodded yes, and only requested that if I made a FTF buy to go to the parking lot. I looked it over and asked the guy to meet me outside. I paid the guy $200, took it to a gun show the next day and sold it for $300.

I don't think you really did anything wrong. A little more tact might have helped, but the shop owner showed his true colors. Just witnessing him low balling someone who he thought was clueless as to value would have left a bad taste in my mouth.

SaxonPig · August 11, 2015, 05:01 PM

He pays rent, utilities, payroll and advertising to cultivate business opportunities, not to provide a meeting place for non-licensed sellers and buyers looking for a deal."

I get that. I didn't say anything until it was clear the shop owner was NOT going to buy the gun. I was taking absolutely NOTHING away from him.

"The owner of the shop was a bit of an ass, but to be perfectly honest, you were, too, a bit. I'd never make an offer on a customer gun right in front of the owner. I'd walk out after the guy, tell him I'd like to make an offer on his gun, and have him follow me up the street. "

See above response. I reject your assessment.

SaxonPig · August 11, 2015, 05:04 PM

PS: Sorry for putting this in the wrong forum. Clicked on the wrong spot somehow.

**Tom Servo** · August 11, 2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:

I'd never make an offer on a customer gun right in front of the owner. I'd walk out after the guy, tell him I'd like to make an offer on his gun, and have him follow me up the street.

That would be the courteous thing to do. Unfortunately, courtesy isn't that common.

As a dealer, I bought used guns based on these factors:

did we need the gun as a piece of inventory?
does the seller have a realistic expectation on price?
can we make a reasonable markup (~30%) within a reasonable amount of time?

If so, great. If not, we didn't need the gun. No hard feelings. I never had the patience to play games and dicker on price like many dealers apparently do.

If my offer doesn't meet the seller's expectations, but somebody else wants to make a deal with him, OK. All I ask is that they don't conduct the deal on the premises.

The biggest annoyance is actually Know-It-All Bob, who stands at the counter and claims we're not offering enough, even though he's got no interest in the gun anyway.

KEYBEAR · August 11, 2015, 07:41 PM

Over the years I have seen a lot of guns come in to a shop to be sold . If the shop owner does not offer enough and does not buy the gun my turn . If I am interested I follow the seller out side and ask if I can make an offer .

I never make any kind of offer in his shop .

hartcreek · August 13, 2015, 03:35 AM

I bought a hundred plus year old model 90 as a private sale in a gun shop. Both myself and the seller were regulars at the shop and the shop owner simply did not want to mess with the paperwork on this specific sale. I even had to run down to the bank machine to get my money. The shop owner and the seller just drank a cup of coffee while I was gone.

For the OP it is a good thing that the blowup happened as you found out that that shop owner was a crook. The shop that promotes the club attitude is the one that will survive and there were a lot of us regulars that spent a lot of money at Don Manning's shop over the years.

Old Stony · August 13, 2015, 04:04 AM

I would not call the dealer a crook because of this incident. You have invaded his place of business and interfered with his transactions. I was in the business and had similar things happen to me numerous times with guys that would hang around hoping to get a really good deal on something. It is not necessarily the customers place to dictate to the shop owner how to conduct his business. If a guy is unfair to customers, it will all come out in the end with the shop owner losing enough customers to put him out of business.
I had a great clientele as a rule in my business and always tried to treat them fairly....but I also occasionally had someone wander in with something like this that I would rather hang out somewhere else. Who knows if the seller of that gun might have thought over the situation and brought it back in with a different price in mind....but your actions cut the dealer out entirely.

JimmyR · August 13, 2015, 04:45 AM

Just wondering, because I honestly have no idea, would a private individual making an offer on a firearm brought in to a gun shop run the risk of misrepresenting himself as an employee of said gun shop? Would there be any potential legal/regulatory ramifications. I wouldn't think so, but can see this as another reason not to conduct "side deals" within a licensed FFL holder's premesis.

Gunplummer · August 13, 2015, 05:47 AM

Never did it in a shop, but did at a show once. A dealer trying to take advantage of an old guy. There is "Getting a deal" and misrepresenting the value of a firearm to just beat the guy up and get it for next to nothing. I have no use for guys that hang out outside the gunshow doors all day to do business either, but some of the Dealers inside are no better. That is why I have not been to a show in years.

**Tom Servo** · August 13, 2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

would a private individual making an offer on a firearm brought in to a gun shop run the risk of misrepresenting himself as an employee of said gun shop?

That's the concern, yes. To a third-party observing the transaction, it could look as if the dealer's doing something off the books.

22-rimfire · August 13, 2015, 08:00 AM

The whole concept is a bit wrong. The gun came to the gun shop because the gun shop was there. It's a business and the fact that a brick and mortar business is there, it attracts potential customers. Would the customer some how been able to find the private citizen interested in the gun? Probably not.... The gunshop has first crack at the gun period.

Once the offer is made (if it is made) by the dealer and rejected, I would quietly wait outside for the gun to come to me and ask if they were interested in selling to me.

I apply the same logic at gun shows if someone or a dealer is showing interest in a particular firearm, I wait until the potential transaction is declined.

Joe_Pike · August 13, 2015, 09:46 PM

Was the store owner a guy named Steve from SW Missouri, because it sounds exactly like something he would do (meaning the lowball offer and the screaming)?

August 11, 2015, 07:18 AM	#1
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	Not my experience. There is a current thread about a member buying a handgun from an individual who walked it into a gun shop. I have no idea what happened in this transaction, but I recall the one time about 35 years ago when I offered to buy a gun from a person who took it to a gun shop to sell. I was hanging around, perusing the guns on display when a middle aged man walked in with what was obviously a pistol wrapped up in a towel. I overheard him tell the shop owner that his brother had passed on and he wound up with the gun and he had no interest in it. Would the shop owner want to buy it? He unwrapped a very nice Browning Hi-Power P35. I casually eyed the interaction from the side as the dealer gave the pistol the once over and offered the man $65 for it. At that time I think the gun would likely have a $300 price in a shop so I thought $65 was a very low offer. The owner agreed with me as he shook his head and declined to sell. The gun was wrapped up again and as the man started for the door I said "I'll give you $200 for it." At that point the shop owner began screaming...I mean screaming at me...about stealing his business. Between curses and vile insults he ordered me out of his shop and demanded that I never return. The man with the Browning was visibly shaken by the incident and scurried back to his car and left. I figured the dealer made his offer and didn't make the purchase. I really wasn't trying to take the gun away from the shop owner. I didn't think I was stepping on his toes by making an offer after it was clear the gun's owner wouldn't sell at the dealer's offered price. But I was obviously wrong. Maybe I should have followed the man outside and spoke to him after leaving the shop. Don't know if the dealer would have seen that as any better. Anyway, every once in a while I read on a forum about somebody buying a gun brought into a shop and I am reminded of my experience in trying to do that. Maybe others have better luck.

August 11, 2015, 07:34 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I've seen it go both ways -- shop owner gets testy with something like that, or the guy bringing the gun in gets really offended at the offer that's made and goes off the deep end. The owner of the shop was a bit of an ass, but to be perfectly honest, you were, too, a bit. I'd never make an offer on a customer gun right in front of the owner. I'd walk out after the guy, tell him I'd like to make an offer on his gun, and have him follow me up the street. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 11, 2015, 07:58 AM	#4
zukiphile Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 4,457	Being verbally abusive doesn't have a place in business, but one can see the shopkeeper's view. I am not in the business, but have represented a few. He pays rent, utilities, payroll and advertising to cultivate business opportunities, not to provide a meeting place for non-licensed sellers and buyers looking for a deal. I've seen shopkeepers who don't mind providing what amounts to a clubhouse to a cadre of regulars. They may see a friendly culture as an asset to the business, and the regulars know they have a good thing and don't interfere with the shopkeepers business. I've also seen shopkeepers who never see beyond the immediate transaction and view knowledgeable regulars as an enemy with a lower potential margin. There seem to be quite a few of the former who persist year after year despite not making a fortune. (In fact, I think it can be a pretty tough business.) The latter kind in my area needs to have some special attribute or they close up after a year or two. Few will use an unpleasant merchant when friendly ones offer an equivalent product. __________________ http://www.npboards.com/index.php

August 13, 2015, 09:46 PM	#16
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	Was the store owner a guy named Steve from SW Missouri, because it sounds exactly like something he would do (meaning the lowball offer and the screaming)? __________________ Stay Groovy

August 11, 2015, 07:34 AM	#3
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	The owner was attempting to play on the sellers ignorance. Really unethical in my opinion. Good you got tossed out, that lack of ethics goes beyond that one proposed transaction. Not a guy I'd do business with.

August 11, 2015, 10:07 AM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	Several years back I had a similar, although more civil interaction. Looking around in a pawn shop a guy comes in with a Remington 700 ADL in 270. This was when they still had walnut on the ADL's. Guy needed to sell or pawn it for $200. It was a Friday on the last day of March and he needed rent money. The pawn shop owner apologized and told the guy that $200 was fair, but he already had more hunting rifles than he needed and it wouldn't sell for months. He just didn't want to tie up money in one at that time. I made eye contact with the shop owner and asked if he minded if I looked at it. He nodded yes, and only requested that if I made a FTF buy to go to the parking lot. I looked it over and asked the guy to meet me outside. I paid the guy $200, took it to a gun show the next day and sold it for $300. I don't think you really did anything wrong. A little more tact might have helped, but the shop owner showed his true colors. Just witnessing him low balling someone who he thought was clueless as to value would have left a bad taste in my mouth.

August 11, 2015, 05:01 PM	#6
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	He pays rent, utilities, payroll and advertising to cultivate business opportunities, not to provide a meeting place for non-licensed sellers and buyers looking for a deal." I get that. I didn't say anything until it was clear the shop owner was NOT going to buy the gun. I was taking absolutely NOTHING away from him. "The owner of the shop was a bit of an ass, but to be perfectly honest, you were, too, a bit. I'd never make an offer on a customer gun right in front of the owner. I'd walk out after the guy, tell him I'd like to make an offer on his gun, and have him follow me up the street. " See above response. I reject your assessment.

August 11, 2015, 05:04 PM	#7
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	PS: Sorry for putting this in the wrong forum. Clicked on the wrong spot somehow.

August 11, 2015, 07:41 PM	#9
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	Over the years I have seen a lot of guns come in to a shop to be sold . If the shop owner does not offer enough and does not buy the gun my turn . If I am interested I follow the seller out side and ask if I can make an offer . I never make any kind of offer in his shop .

August 13, 2015, 03:35 AM	#10
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I bought a hundred plus year old model 90 as a private sale in a gun shop. Both myself and the seller were regulars at the shop and the shop owner simply did not want to mess with the paperwork on this specific sale. I even had to run down to the bank machine to get my money. The shop owner and the seller just drank a cup of coffee while I was gone. For the OP it is a good thing that the blowup happened as you found out that that shop owner was a crook. The shop that promotes the club attitude is the one that will survive and there were a lot of us regulars that spent a lot of money at Don Manning's shop over the years.

August 13, 2015, 04:04 AM	#11
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I would not call the dealer a crook because of this incident. You have invaded his place of business and interfered with his transactions. I was in the business and had similar things happen to me numerous times with guys that would hang around hoping to get a really good deal on something. It is not necessarily the customers place to dictate to the shop owner how to conduct his business. If a guy is unfair to customers, it will all come out in the end with the shop owner losing enough customers to put him out of business. I had a great clientele as a rule in my business and always tried to treat them fairly....but I also occasionally had someone wander in with something like this that I would rather hang out somewhere else. Who knows if the seller of that gun might have thought over the situation and brought it back in with a different price in mind....but your actions cut the dealer out entirely.

August 13, 2015, 05:47 AM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Never did it in a shop, but did at a show once. A dealer trying to take advantage of an old guy. There is "Getting a deal" and misrepresenting the value of a firearm to just beat the guy up and get it for next to nothing. I have no use for guys that hang out outside the gunshow doors all day to do business either, but some of the Dealers inside are no better. That is why I have not been to a show in years.

August 13, 2015, 08:00 AM	#15
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	The whole concept is a bit wrong. The gun came to the gun shop because the gun shop was there. It's a business and the fact that a brick and mortar business is there, it attracts potential customers. Would the customer some how been able to find the private citizen interested in the gun? Probably not.... The gunshop has first crack at the gun period. Once the offer is made (if it is made) by the dealer and rejected, I would quietly wait outside for the gun to come to me and ask if they were interested in selling to me. I apply the same logic at gun shows if someone or a dealer is showing interest in a particular firearm, I wait until the potential transaction is declined.